The worst score, but the best game!

Codver

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
5
Location
Norrtheast, USA
Hi all!

After some time away, I am back this summer playing BtS with the new patch on a new computer (so I can now enjoy the great graphics and movies in the game). I just won a cultural victory playing on a prince difficulty tectonics map at epic speed, in July, 2003, with a leader ranking at the end of the game of Dan Quayle! :lol: So why am I laughing? Because I finally understand all the folks around here who say the score just doesn't matter; I had ten times more fun this game than the wins where I earned the ranking of Augustus Caesar or Hammurabi! If you are up for a recap, read on!

Peace,
Codver
Spoiler :
As random civ/leader I get Saladin of Arabia. I find myself on a mid-sized continent with Montezuma:rolleyes:; early war, here we come! I win the war, taking the last Aztec city in 310 AD (he of course never offered more than a peace treaty every time I approached him diplomatically). Now I'm alone, and I kept too many Aztec cities. My economy struggles to keep the research rate at 30% for a long while. I finally start getting visitors: Hannibal from across the water at an island city I founded for extra trade in the east, DeGaulle with his caravels, oh, and my old favorite from Civ I, Shaka!:cry: They start deciding who gets to eat me first. I think about quitting, and from somewhere inside decide to play it out. The only path to victory I have is cultural, so I go to it with the three religions founded on my home continent after teching my own way to liberalism for Free Speech (needless to say, I had nothing to trade to anybody except Tokugawa, who won't trade with anyone!). I took a side route to rifling to give myself a chance at self-defense. I tried to work the diplomatic relationships, but I am so far behind in military technologies that there is no way I can avoid being invaded. My strategic goal for my military is to contain the damage when my rivals come for me and preserve my chance for a cultural victory.

DeGaulle comes for me first in the late 1700's AD; in the face of his second invasion fleet, I retreat from one of my coastal cities in the southeast to concentrate my army. I fight him off at Mecca, my southern culture city, and hold out long enough to sue successfully for peace by giving him another eastern city which I did not need (he asked for Mecca, I counter-offered Basra, and he took it!). DeGaulle becomes an ally the rest of the game (reasonable guy, after the initial rudeness of invading me!:D).

Then comes Shaka, the first time! In 1851 AD, he takes my coastal city in the west; I retake it and throw him back to the sea but lose 2/3 of my military in the process. If another invasion force arrived, I would be hard-pressed to defeat it. But peace comes in 1865 AD when DeGaulle calls for an Apostolic Palace vote to end the war against Codver! Even Shaka had enough and voted 'yes'! 3 turns later, I sign a defensive pact with DeGaulle. But then in the mid-1900's, so does Shaka!:eek:

I had some time to rebuild my army. Then in Jan. 1972, Shaka breaks the pact and invades the second time, with tanks, gunships, marines, paratroopers and jet fighters versus my riflemen, cavalry (the stray tech my settled great scientists netted me over the centuries after I threw the cultural slider to full) and catapults (yes, catapults!:blush:). DeGaulle is in the fight with me, but Shaka is taking me on in the west and south, while DeGaulle is in the east and not going to help me too much, especially since he is making his own cultural victory run now! I know I can only hold out for so long; I make a plan to be sure that "so long" is as long as possible!

The war is brutal, but Shaka makes the classic mistake, splitting his ground forces against me. At a high cost, I take them in turn, with my forces led by Cao Cao (cavalry with 90% withdrawal chance) and supported by Sun Tzu (Medic III; veteran unit of the war with Monty:goodjob:) . But Shaka's jet fighters are everywhere, destroying mines, pastures, farms, every resource tile I have in range of his fighters! Resource trades for gold that were holding up my economy are disrupted. My cities start turning unhealthy as I lose key bonuses. Shaka is ruthless! That's why I learned to hate him in Civ I!:mad: But I'm older and wiser now, and I respect is high level of play as a warmonger!:lol:

Shaka's last effort is a force of eight marines that make it to Mecca on the western side. I am afraid he is going to pillage the mature riverside towns there that I desperately need for my chance at a cultural victory. But he doesn't pillage them. I guess he was hoping to take them with the city for himself. But I didn't want to give him a chance to reconsider; I decided to destroy that stack then and there. After my remaining catapults and cavalry do their thing, I expend one riflemen after another to knock them down and out, and just to add insult to injury, with the last Zulu marine down to 1.9 strength, I send out my remaining ancient era archer to put 'em down! Then as secretary general of the UN, DeGaulle comes through again, calling in Jan. 1980 AD for a vote to end the war against Codver! Shaka votes against it, but it passes! Peace comes! I still have a chance to win! And just for fun, Shaka gives up all his cities on the Arabian continent and Washington assumes leadership of them! Welcome to the game, pal!

Now to focus on victory. Could I actually make it? It seems such a long shot! DeGaulle's cities of Paris and Orleans go legendary, but you need three to win, and Marseilles, his third city, is running way behind the other two! It's on par with my three cities, and after tracking it for a few turns, I realize all my cities are going to pass Marseilles before the magic number of 75000! I just need to hang on a little longer! That is, until Jan. 1998 when I get taken to the scene at Carthage as Hannibal's space ship leaves earth for Alpha Centauri! But he only built one engine for it, so it will have a longer journey. In four turns, I am going to get a great person born in Mecca, and there is a 50% chance it's an artist (during the second war with Shaka, I had to put my artist specialists back to work for food and production, greatly reducing the percentage chance for a great artist from what it would have been otherwise). If it's an artist, I can win the game as soon as he makes it to Medina, my central culture city which is running a little behind Mecca. I already have another great artist in Tenochtitlan, my northern culture city, ready to make the great artwork that will take it over the top (it's running behind Mecca and Medina). With bated breath, I wait to see... Mani the great prophet is born in Mecca. Shoot!:(

I have two cities I need to get 75000 culture points as soon as possible, and now I could generate a golden age with the artist and prophet (I had only one golden age, early in the start of the culture run). I run the numbers of extra culture commerce from the golden age versus using Virgil the Great Artist making a great artwork in Tenochtitlan, and the latter is my faster path to three legendary cities. So my plan is after Mecca has already gone legendary, and just before Medina goes legendary, I will have good old Virgil write the great work that will make Tenochtitlan famous forever! But will it be in time? Or...

Will DeGaulle pull out the last minute diplomatic win? He calls for the vote to be world leader, running against Pericles. He has done this before and not come close; I abstain, and he falls short again. Sorry, bud! Must be the nose!;)

And then the moment comes! Virgil writes his great work, the BUG mod tells me Medina's cultural boundaries will expand the next turn, the only question is will Hannibal's space colonization effort beat me to cultural immortality! Cue up the movie of the big statue of Sid, cause Codver just pulled out the underdog win of all time!:king: Well, for me anyway! I hooted and hollared and jumped and clapped and I am still smiling just thinking about it!

So friends, thanks for reading, and forget the score! The real fun is in playing the game, especially it looks like you have no chance at all! Thanks to the vets around here who encourage us, and thanks for all the great ideas and skills I have learned here over the last few months. Man, I love this game!
 
I could not agree more. Just last night I finished a LOSING game (I was Dan Quayle for gods sake) that was probably the most fun I'd ever had. First time playing the "prettyearth2" map (all 18 civs start in asia/africa/europe - it rocks btw)..... not used to that much competition for REX...... started expanding late with england. Prolonged war after prolonged war (portugal, romans, stalin, china). Thought I'd go for culture after eliminating portugal.... realized it wasn't going to work half way through, changed to space race and boosted every production factor I could think of. Ended up losing space race to Zara by ONE TURN, but it was probably the most fun I had since the first month I owned Civ4.
Forget the score is right...... play something different, forget the usual strategies that you use to win occasionally and enjoy. This game rocks!
 
Score doesn't reflect how well you played, unless you went for Domination or Conquest. For the others don't worry about it. Hell it's more impressive if you win these other victories with a smaller empire. I mean how impressive is it to win a space race if you have a massive empire? Nobody can beat it just cause it's so damn huge. And Cultural if you have a huge empire there's no worries cause nobody is gonna try to invade.

But if you have a small network like 6 cities and can make it through the game with limited/no war and beat many other larger empires? Now that's impressive. But the score won't necessarily reflect it.
 
Yes, I was particularly proud of my Dan Quayle time victory in which I had 6,000 years of peace. I thought my diplomacy was brilliant .


I've also had some fun losses, losing an AP or UN victory to a friend, or losing by Culture as I was closing in on domination.
 
Ha! I just finished the vanilla GOTM (though I didn't compete because I restarted once). Still, it was my first conquest game ever (yeah I know, only Warlord level so meh) and I learned a heck of a lot on it. How to mange funds, how to force tech parity (well they can't tech without their food/hammers/workers. right? How to not panic when things are not quite going as well as I'd like.

It was a blast - compared to many here it would be a disaster or a non-game, but I'm happy with it and learned a lot! I did win but comparisons say I could have won... better. I don't care, I'm happy with it.
 
I figure this game rewards aggression. I wipe out 3 other civs, wow, I GREAT leader, I better than Churchill. I live in peace and keep my people happy and fed and amused and have no wars... I lousy leader. I've tested this and it's true.:lol:
or possibly...:confused:
 
I figure this game rewards aggression. I wipe out 3 other civs, wow, I GREAT leader, I better than Churchill. I live in peace and keep my people happy and fed and amused and have no wars... I lousy leader. I've tested this and it's true.:lol:
or possibly...:confused:

this is too true
 
I has a similar type of game recently. I was Hannibal. Two continents, with 18 civs on a huge map (with low sea level, so more land). I had Rome to the south, Egypt to the west, and Celts to the northeast. I was on the eastern (northern) part of the continent. Chrchill was on the Western coast with the Americans, Gilgamesh and Saladin in the south. I was zooming along with an early builder strategy, when Egypt asked me to gang up on the Celts. We did that and I took two cities, but couldn't get any further since I had focused on infrastructure. We made peace.

I continued the building, but with some units to eliminate the Celts soon. Thank goodness, because next I know Washington and Saladin are vassals to Churchill (who had been fightling forever) and Churchill has attacked me. They all had to slog through Egypt (who was very strong and open boarders with them), but the stacks that I saw through my early warning detection units in Egypt saw multiple stacks from all three in the dozens. Nevere saw that before and I nearly threw in the towel. But, I continued.

I figured the only way to win was just to survive, build the army, and counter-attack (eventually). Well, I shifted most of my attach force in the north to defense and sniper activity in my south, while shifting all production to defense. I survived multiple SoDs on citys where I eventually had 40+ units. Luckily, Saladin, Washington and Churchill didn't attack simultaneously, but in waves, so I was able to rotate the units depending on which had more at the time. Just as I thought I was ready to give some damage back, Ceaser used his preatorians on me and while I had good defense, he seemed to have endless armies. I never did get a city off him or enter his territory the entire game. And thankfully, he only attacked me that once, because he had massive production cities.

I never did get to counter-attack either (unless you consider several eras later that). But I did eventually survive for a spaceship win after Celts joined Churchill and Frederick, Wang, and Nappy attcked me out of nowhere from the other continent(when I had a weak navy, since I was fightling off the land invasions). Isabella joined in, but she as landlocked (odd that she would have declared), so thatwas ok It was touch and go for many turns - and so very exciting!
 
Roman Praetorian rush domination in small map can give you very high score. It is one of the easiest ways to win and a standard chosing when you want to try a higher level. Peaceful culture victory is much much trickier, but gives lover score. So, score doesn't really tell anything.
 
Haha good story!
 
You can achieve an Augustus Caesar-caliber win by Impi rushing your 6 rivals with slavery and chopping, one at a time on a Pangaea map. And when your economy is nearly crashing under the weight of all your cities and huge armies, when your people are rioting and starving, surely they will appreciate what a great leader you are! ;)
 
I've always been really annoyed by this score thing! Some of my best maps have been totally peaceful, with cultural, space, or diplomatic victories, and I might get Ethelred if I'm lucky! But if I Praetorian spam Gandhi on a duel map and win in 600 AD with like NO culture/science, I'm Nelson friggin' Mandela!
 
You can achieve an Augustus Caesar-caliber win by Impi rushing your 6 rivals with slavery and chopping, one at a time on a Pangaea map. And when your economy is nearly crashing under the weight of all your cities and huge armies, when your people are rioting and starving, surely they will appreciate what a great leader you are! ;)

That's impossible to do to 6 opponents.. Archers would eat the impis for breakfeast..
 
I won a Prince game std map early 20th Century on cultural, reloaded and reran to win mid 20th Century spacerace with a massive lead in tech and more Wonders etc, my score went down and so did my placing, although the game was a lot of fun.

So there you go.
 
In my opinion the early finish impact on score is too much and it is the reason for the score being irrelevant to the actual player performance in the game.

Firaxis should come with a new formula and to forget about the old one, why finishing date is the main score drive anyway? where are other factors from the score such as Military size, Economy, Happiness, Healthiness, Specialists, Culture, Wonders, Food, luxury, resources ,.. etc.

If we have a big formula that takes everything in consideration then may be we get a fair score that reflects how well the player did to get his victory regardless of the type of the victory (peaceful or aggressive) not how fast he conquered others and how lucky he was in making vessels!!
 
I consider it a good game if I have fun, lose, but learn something. It's a great game if I win and learn something. And it's an even better game if I win and wind up as Dan Quayle. :)
 
Game rewards early wins... I like modern/future era. Sometimes I even turn off time victory, turn on Aggressive AI, 18 civs, no vassals, turn off all victories except conquest. I had a game go until around 2140. I had so much fun that game b/c after conquering all but 4 civs, I had to really work at it since they were at tech parity (took 'em long enough!). I won the game and got a score of around 2500. LOL! It was one of the most fun games I have ever experience (but it was WAAY too long. Marathon. Took 35 hours)

I never pay heed to that score unless I'm going for a HoF (never, I'm noble ;))
 
Yeah, it was really fun. I wasn't ever in danger of losing, but it took FOREVER to win.

BTW, Ravellion, I just got back from Amsterdam a week ago. I love your city... no no no... I love your city. Trying to figure out how to move there ;)

Stayed at Tourist Inn - Spuistraat near Station Centraal.
 
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