Propaganda
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2002
- Messages
- 120
Hello, everyone. Could any of you help me dub Marla Singer's map into this MOD? I cannot figure out how to approach this. Thanks.
The WW2 MOD - Suggestions, Ideas, Discussions...
- Thread starter Grey Fox
- Start date
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
I have been giving a lot of time and thought to a WWII mod. Last year I was still playing civII and was delighted ny captain nemos red front, second front, and wwII scenarios. Unfortunately with all the upgrades civ III has received an traditional wwII mod is still never going to be as much fun as red front; the change of weather conditions, the event created units, and the way that the tanks and men changed colour from summer to winter.
For that matter you can't even have Text pop-ups like the one that lauches the campaign; "Operation barbarossa, nazi germany prepares the largest invasion force ever..." etc.
But still I think there is room for a WWII era mod in civ III and the only way that it can be better than red front is through the way that Civ III makes alternative history realy realistic; national borders, improved AI, culture etc.
I have had many ideas and have even made some units, (as of this posting only two are finished) One of the ideas in to show allies using the Global culture rule; Make the italians and the same culture (Clasical, European etc.) and they will be more likely to team up.
I think a good scenario would start around the time of the spanish civil war, the sparking point of the whole thing.
Have the map include the East coast of america, europe and russia out to just past the urals and a little of north africa in the south (some one will have to redesign the icecap pcx otherwise the battle for N.africa could look silly.
If all the civs are set up properly, (germany with big military, high culture and huge airforce, france and russia with outdated military and very weak neutral countries in between) then the AI would do the job for you.
Point of fact, the invasion of chechezovakia started because of expanding german cultural borders. the chechs were fortified on a natural strong point, when the Sudeten germans caused disorder this area culture fliped over to the germans and suddenly the strong fortified chech defenders were in german territory (from their possition it is generaly acepted that the Chechs could have stopped a german invasion in its tracks). the germans made the chechs withdraw to an undefendable position and then just walked right in and captured chechezovakia with out interference from the rest of europe. With control of the high production cababilities of the chech workshops next it was polland and the rest as they say is history. (before this was the giant culture flip of Austria).
For that matter you can't even have Text pop-ups like the one that lauches the campaign; "Operation barbarossa, nazi germany prepares the largest invasion force ever..." etc.
But still I think there is room for a WWII era mod in civ III and the only way that it can be better than red front is through the way that Civ III makes alternative history realy realistic; national borders, improved AI, culture etc.
I have had many ideas and have even made some units, (as of this posting only two are finished) One of the ideas in to show allies using the Global culture rule; Make the italians and the same culture (Clasical, European etc.) and they will be more likely to team up.
I think a good scenario would start around the time of the spanish civil war, the sparking point of the whole thing.
Have the map include the East coast of america, europe and russia out to just past the urals and a little of north africa in the south (some one will have to redesign the icecap pcx otherwise the battle for N.africa could look silly.
If all the civs are set up properly, (germany with big military, high culture and huge airforce, france and russia with outdated military and very weak neutral countries in between) then the AI would do the job for you.
Point of fact, the invasion of chechezovakia started because of expanding german cultural borders. the chechs were fortified on a natural strong point, when the Sudeten germans caused disorder this area culture fliped over to the germans and suddenly the strong fortified chech defenders were in german territory (from their possition it is generaly acepted that the Chechs could have stopped a german invasion in its tracks). the germans made the chechs withdraw to an undefendable position and then just walked right in and captured chechezovakia with out interference from the rest of europe. With control of the high production cababilities of the chech workshops next it was polland and the rest as they say is history. (before this was the giant culture flip of Austria).
Jagdpanther
Dying...
so where's the PTO?
Blind Man
Chieftain
I don't know if the Chezhs (spelling maybe off) could have stopped a Nazi invasion... besides, if they were really having trouble they could have just split it in half with USSR.
Anywho, has anyone ever read anything by Harry Turtledove, most, particularily the Great War and WorldWar sagas, I think that either of those would make for great MOD's. Unfortunately I have not the know-how to accomplish such a deed, just an idea even if it doesn't have anything to do with this MOD
Anywho, has anyone ever read anything by Harry Turtledove, most, particularily the Great War and WorldWar sagas, I think that either of those would make for great MOD's. Unfortunately I have not the know-how to accomplish such a deed, just an idea even if it doesn't have anything to do with this MOD
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
Umm.. sorry some time I get carried away and ramble on a bit. I suppose they were all my ideas for how I would produce a WWII mod, some thing I fully intend on doing when the editor improves (probably with the XP).
I don't think the Chechs could have beat the germans, but they definately could have put up a decent defence, (they had a little mini maginot line going on there), as it was the germans were able to pretty much march right in with out any deffence. The germans would have had to have gone round the deffences, probably through poland, and remember that france and britain declared war when germany invaded polland. At that point in histor (the anexation of Chechezlovakia), the germans couldn't have hoped to take on the rest of europe, and they hadn't yet signed the treaty with russia. this was the last point when france and britain and polland could actualy have done something to stop the war. It was only after hitler took chechezlovakia that the hungarians sided with him so he would have had no help from that side.
A good set of books about the diplomatic and espionage arena in eurpoe during the 30s and 40s are by Alan Furst, an american author. "Kingdom of shadows" does a fine job of describing why hungarys' drift in to alliance with Germany.
My scenario is going to be more diplomatic and espionage based, I wanted to give some tips for that area of development.
I don't think the Chechs could have beat the germans, but they definately could have put up a decent defence, (they had a little mini maginot line going on there), as it was the germans were able to pretty much march right in with out any deffence. The germans would have had to have gone round the deffences, probably through poland, and remember that france and britain declared war when germany invaded polland. At that point in histor (the anexation of Chechezlovakia), the germans couldn't have hoped to take on the rest of europe, and they hadn't yet signed the treaty with russia. this was the last point when france and britain and polland could actualy have done something to stop the war. It was only after hitler took chechezlovakia that the hungarians sided with him so he would have had no help from that side.
A good set of books about the diplomatic and espionage arena in eurpoe during the 30s and 40s are by Alan Furst, an american author. "Kingdom of shadows" does a fine job of describing why hungarys' drift in to alliance with Germany.
My scenario is going to be more diplomatic and espionage based, I wanted to give some tips for that area of development.
Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2002
- Messages
- 1,354
FASCIST WONDERS
Speer's Cathedral of Light
Adds a SAM missile battery to every city on continent, makes one citizen content in each city on continent, gives 3 culture
Albert Speer was Hitler's favorite architect and later became minister of armaments production. His most original work was the 'Lichtdom' (light-dome) which made use of a mass array of AA searchlights to create a somber athmosphere at various Nazi-rallies. His controversial concept has since influenced many artists and architects. the temporary World Trade Center memoral a case in point.
Strength Trough Joy
One happy citizen in each city on continent, gives 1 culture.
The Nazis believed that happy citizens equaled productive citizens. Therefore the State treated workers to 'Kraft durch Freude' cruise holidays free of charge.
Autobahn
One happy citizen in each city on continent. Adds an airport to every city on continent, gives 1 culture
Perhaps the most famous of Nazi Public works. The idea of connecting Germany with liniar highways was linked with the mass production of the 'People's Car' or the Volkswagen Beetle which it was believed would greatly expand the common man's opportunities for recreational holidays. during the war the Autobahn was used as airstrips allowing greatly improved flexibility for the German Luftwaffe, and later Nato aircraft.
Fortress Europe
Adds a coastal fortress and city walls to every city on continent, gives 2 culture.
The Fortress Europe public works was designed to protect Neuropa (a pun on 'New Europe') from invasion. It encompassed gun emplacements, bunkers and fortresses from the northern tip of Norway to the Bay of Biscay in southern France. Today many of these massive installations can still be seen littering the beaches and clifftops of the Atlantic coast. The concept of Fortress Europe has never ceased to capture the public mind in Europe, although it now refers to protectionism in a more general way.
Speer's Cathedral of Light
Adds a SAM missile battery to every city on continent, makes one citizen content in each city on continent, gives 3 culture
Albert Speer was Hitler's favorite architect and later became minister of armaments production. His most original work was the 'Lichtdom' (light-dome) which made use of a mass array of AA searchlights to create a somber athmosphere at various Nazi-rallies. His controversial concept has since influenced many artists and architects. the temporary World Trade Center memoral a case in point.
Strength Trough Joy
One happy citizen in each city on continent, gives 1 culture.
The Nazis believed that happy citizens equaled productive citizens. Therefore the State treated workers to 'Kraft durch Freude' cruise holidays free of charge.
Autobahn
One happy citizen in each city on continent. Adds an airport to every city on continent, gives 1 culture
Perhaps the most famous of Nazi Public works. The idea of connecting Germany with liniar highways was linked with the mass production of the 'People's Car' or the Volkswagen Beetle which it was believed would greatly expand the common man's opportunities for recreational holidays. during the war the Autobahn was used as airstrips allowing greatly improved flexibility for the German Luftwaffe, and later Nato aircraft.
Fortress Europe
Adds a coastal fortress and city walls to every city on continent, gives 2 culture.
The Fortress Europe public works was designed to protect Neuropa (a pun on 'New Europe') from invasion. It encompassed gun emplacements, bunkers and fortresses from the northern tip of Norway to the Bay of Biscay in southern France. Today many of these massive installations can still be seen littering the beaches and clifftops of the Atlantic coast. The concept of Fortress Europe has never ceased to capture the public mind in Europe, although it now refers to protectionism in a more general way.
Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2002
- Messages
- 1,354
Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2002
- Messages
- 1,354
AUTOBAHN
Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2002
- Messages
- 1,354
Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2002
- Messages
- 1,354
Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2002
- Messages
- 1,354
Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2002
- Messages
- 1,354
The consensus according to different threads seems to be that Civ-Fascism is Wolfschanze's Fascist Patch + the tile penalty (i.e. one less food/shield per square, but not trade!). The new editor allows for gov. specific Wonders. Do anyone have any ideas for Democratic or Communist Wonders. I have for Democratic: 'The Queens' ( Q. Elizabeth & Mary; superfast liner troopcarriers=+1 movement for naval vessels) and Bletchfield Park (+50 science for solving the Enigma code.) Communist: Shostastakovich Seventh (Leningrad) Symphony (+2 happiness, i.e. a lot more drafting)
The prerequsite for Wondrosity is architechtual or intellectual finesse. In short it should make you wonder.
The prerequsite for Wondrosity is architechtual or intellectual finesse. In short it should make you wonder.
tcwonder:
you said the russians won the war with attrition in the east.
well I would make another statement: the germans lost the war
1. 1941 when Hitler decided to fight the battle of Kiev instead of the run for Moscow in September. moscow would have fallen like a ripe apple in September, the red army troops in the south were without fighting spirit, which would have been even less after the fall of moscow (remember that Ucrainians saw themselves as non-Russians even in 1941)
2. 1942 when Hitler feared a US/BG-invasion in Western Europe and located 28 divisions in France, some of them the most effective of the German army, like L.A.H., Das Reich and the 7. Panzer division. The whole plan of the 42 offensive in the East was built upon Hitlers fear of the second front and his attempt to get a decisive victory in the East before the second front would emerge. Therefore he played hazard in the attack towards the Caucasus.
The General Staff wanted another attack against Moscow, which was the political, economical and railway-centre of the Sovjets. This, by the way, is the difference to Napoleons war. In napoleonic times Moscow had only symbolic meaning. In the
1940s conquering Moscow would have been the victory for the Germans. Remember that many nations of the USSR were not very loyal to Moscow and the Communists...
you said the russians won the war with attrition in the east.
well I would make another statement: the germans lost the war
1. 1941 when Hitler decided to fight the battle of Kiev instead of the run for Moscow in September. moscow would have fallen like a ripe apple in September, the red army troops in the south were without fighting spirit, which would have been even less after the fall of moscow (remember that Ucrainians saw themselves as non-Russians even in 1941)
2. 1942 when Hitler feared a US/BG-invasion in Western Europe and located 28 divisions in France, some of them the most effective of the German army, like L.A.H., Das Reich and the 7. Panzer division. The whole plan of the 42 offensive in the East was built upon Hitlers fear of the second front and his attempt to get a decisive victory in the East before the second front would emerge. Therefore he played hazard in the attack towards the Caucasus.
The General Staff wanted another attack against Moscow, which was the political, economical and railway-centre of the Sovjets. This, by the way, is the difference to Napoleons war. In napoleonic times Moscow had only symbolic meaning. In the
1940s conquering Moscow would have been the victory for the Germans. Remember that many nations of the USSR were not very loyal to Moscow and the Communists...
greyfox:
you made the T-34 stronger than even the German tiger. That is nonsense, for two reasons.
First, the T-34 was better than Pz III and slightly better than Pz IV, but was no match for Panther and Tiger.
Second, Civ is not a tactical but a strategical game, which means you do not move with individual tanks, but with the tank weapon as a strategic means. This includes leadership, tactics and training of the tank divisions, and interaction
with supporting units. If you compare the German and Sovjet units from this perspective, you will rebuild the real challenge of this war: superior German training, leadership and tactics confonted with superior Sovjet tank numbers.
Remember that three thousand German tanks destroyed twenty thousand Russian ones in the first year of the war.
Three and a half million German soldiers made more than four million Sovjet prisoners of war in the first year of the war.
The Sovjets produced fifty thousand tanks during the war. U.S. and G.B delivered them another few thousand tanks and other goods (trucks, jeeps, clothing)
So the Germans lost because of being heavily outnumbered, on various fronts, not because of the quality of the Sovjet tank weapon (which was, on the other hand, the second strongest worldwide. Any other army would not have survived the German first attack in 1941.)
you made the T-34 stronger than even the German tiger. That is nonsense, for two reasons.
First, the T-34 was better than Pz III and slightly better than Pz IV, but was no match for Panther and Tiger.
Second, Civ is not a tactical but a strategical game, which means you do not move with individual tanks, but with the tank weapon as a strategic means. This includes leadership, tactics and training of the tank divisions, and interaction
with supporting units. If you compare the German and Sovjet units from this perspective, you will rebuild the real challenge of this war: superior German training, leadership and tactics confonted with superior Sovjet tank numbers.
Remember that three thousand German tanks destroyed twenty thousand Russian ones in the first year of the war.
Three and a half million German soldiers made more than four million Sovjet prisoners of war in the first year of the war.
The Sovjets produced fifty thousand tanks during the war. U.S. and G.B delivered them another few thousand tanks and other goods (trucks, jeeps, clothing)
So the Germans lost because of being heavily outnumbered, on various fronts, not because of the quality of the Sovjet tank weapon (which was, on the other hand, the second strongest worldwide. Any other army would not have survived the German first attack in 1941.)
PyroManiac
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2002
- Messages
- 22
Like Manstien said, the Tiger/Panther were stronger than the T-34 but the T-34 was mass-produced much more. To show this make the T-34 a little bit cheaper than the Tiger/Panther but also weaker. As for my test of the mod, it didn't crash and these are the only problems I found.
1. Cities grow to fast, you have no chance of keeping everybody happy especially without including Sistine Chapel, other happiness wonders, etc. (I know that Sistine Chapel wouldn't work so make up some new wonder to do the same thing or something like that.)
2. Commandos are way too powerful for when you get them, I had 5 and was dominating like 20 infantry guys (You get those at almost the same time so it doesn't work out well)
3. Russian tanks are too powerful for when you get them, I was attacking Spain with like 3 KV-1 tanks and suddenly they moved a stack of literally 60 heavy infantries, and another stack of 60 commandos. Each of the tanks killed like 20 guys. The heavy infantries should have destroyed the KV-1 tanks.
4. Late Industrial Era screen in Science Advisor is blank. All that you see are arrows. The tech you build includes all the wonders that you should have gotten a long time ago. (JS bachs, sistine, etc) If you did change those techs to include the wonders than i'm sure that you meant to put pics of them on the advisor screen
That is all, attached is the advisor screen shot:
1. Cities grow to fast, you have no chance of keeping everybody happy especially without including Sistine Chapel, other happiness wonders, etc. (I know that Sistine Chapel wouldn't work so make up some new wonder to do the same thing or something like that.)
2. Commandos are way too powerful for when you get them, I had 5 and was dominating like 20 infantry guys (You get those at almost the same time so it doesn't work out well)
3. Russian tanks are too powerful for when you get them, I was attacking Spain with like 3 KV-1 tanks and suddenly they moved a stack of literally 60 heavy infantries, and another stack of 60 commandos. Each of the tanks killed like 20 guys. The heavy infantries should have destroyed the KV-1 tanks.
4. Late Industrial Era screen in Science Advisor is blank. All that you see are arrows. The tech you build includes all the wonders that you should have gotten a long time ago. (JS bachs, sistine, etc) If you did change those techs to include the wonders than i'm sure that you meant to put pics of them on the advisor screen
That is all, attached is the advisor screen shot:
Sark6354201
Warlord
Ok, I know I'm new here, so what I say may not carry as much weight, but there are few things I want to say.
There was and never has been a tank designated Hellcat. That was the Navy carrier-based fighter-bomber in action 1943 on.
tcwonder3
M18 Hellcat Tank Destroyer, USA I know this is nitpicking, unless you dont count the tank destroyer as a real tank.
The soviet airplanes are a nice idea because not the "battle of britain" was the biggest airbattle ever but the "battle of Kursk"summer 1943.
Lurchfang
The battle of Krusk was the biggest tank battle in history.
Ok, now to the tanks and the strengths that should be included :
Germany:
Panzer I or II, either or very weak tanks, the Pz. I being armed with dual machine guns and nothing more, and the II having only a 20mm cannon. They were produced in large numbers and used until around 1942.
Panzer III
Two different versions of this tank were made, the initial one with the low velocity gun (50mm) saw action until it was upgraded to the newer Ausf J with the longer-barreled gun to try to counter the T-34 and KV-1 tanks the Germans were encountering on the Ostfront. (this increased the velocity at which the projectile moves, increasing the AP ability. Longer barrels = better basicaly)
Panzer IV
This tank should be included no matter what, as it was the most influentual German tank alongside the Panther, it was also produced in large numbers (by German standards
) up until the end of the war. The first vcersion was devised by Manstein in his view that he would need a tank (Pz III) to serve in the Anti-Tank role, while a another tank to hit personal targets. This is where the Pz IV was introduced, with a short barreled 75mm gun. It was later upgraded to Ausf G with the longer barreled 75mm gun that could better counter the Russian tanks. Another version, Ausf L added better protection for the tracks, and further extended the gun barrel length (from L/40 to L/48).
Panther
Were devised to counter the Russian tanks and "burrowed"many of the design traits of the T-34. The first Panthers were employed at Kursk, where they suffered from mechanical problems (which were never fully solved throughout the war). The Panther employed a excellent 75mm gun that was almost (or equal) to the Tiger's 88mm gun. The sloped armor provided awesome protection which the Sherman's low velocity 75mm guns had a lot of trouble penetrating.
Tiger:
Produced in very small numbers (only about 1400) they were slow, heavy and suffered from mechanical problems. They also employed the same flak88mm gun used on the German 88s, and had excellent armor. Not much else to say.
It should also be noted that Stugs, Hetzers and their variations of SPG's were produced in great numbers and contributed greatly to the German fighting effort.
Soviets
BT-5 or 7
Lightly armed and armored Russian tanks using the Christie suspension system.Very fast, but not very powerful tanks.
T-34/76
Some say the best tank in the war, except for its lack of a better gun, it certainly would fit the bill for an almost perfect tank. Employing the Christie suspension system(that the USA refused to buy
) and sloped armor, as well as wide tracks which gave it better cross country ability, the Germans had a tough time fighting these things, which lead to the Panther etc. etc.
KV-1
Used the same gun as the T-34, but with even better armor.
KV-1s
An improved KV-1 not worth mentioing
KV-2
A modified KV-1 that had a huge box like turret, and emplyed a huge howitzer like cannon. Very powerful, but cumbersome,and it was too easy to hit.
KV-85
A KV-1 tank with a long barreled 85mm gun with improved armor.
T34/85
Improved armor, and a long barreled 85mm gun to boot.
IS-2 (Iosef Staln)
Had 120mm gun and a ton of armor, played a major role in clearing the suburbs of Berlin and the German countryside of Bunkers, Tigers etc.
NOTE: Iosef is the Russian word for Joseph.
IS-3
Saw too little action in WW2 too be included.
The Russians also produced a wide range of SU guns (SU-76,SU85,SU100,SU122,SU152) that also served much the samerole as the German SPGs.
America
M3 Stuart
Crappy light tank with 37mm "door-knocker".
M5 Stuart
Much improved stuart.
M3 Grant
A stop-gap solution. Employed a 37mm gun in the turret and a 75mm gun in the hull with limited traverse. Had decent armor, but as one American tank commander put it "it looks like a damn cathedral coming down the road"
M4 Sherman
Improved armor, good reliability and more imprtantly, cheap to manufacture, these things were decent tanks, but unfortunately, only the British managed to get full use out of it by putting a 17pdr (76.2mm) long barreled gun on it. Otherwise the Sherman crews had to deal with either a 75mm or 76mm gun, that had poor velocity and couldnt penetrade Panther or Tiger armor unless at close range.
M10 Wolverine TANK DESTROYER
Since the US government didnt think tanks job was to kill other tanks, they regulated this task to tank destroyers The M10 featured an open topped turret with a long barrelted 76mm gun.
M18 Hellcat TANK DESTROYER
Virtually no armor, but extremely fast. Same 76mm gun.
M36 Slugger TANK DESTROYER
Good armor protection with a 90 or 76 mm long barreled gun (sry, I cant remember).
M26 Pershing
Saw very limited action, so I wouldnt include them. Similiar to the Panther, had a 90mm long barreled gun and good armor protection.
Britain
Matillda
Heavily armored, very slow "Infantry" tank witha pny 2 pdr gun that couldnt be upgraded because of the small turret.
Crusader
Used the Christie suspension system. Fast tank, but poor armor, a porr 2 pdr gun (that was later upgraded to a 6pdr)
and frequent breakdowns.
Valentine
Another "Infantry" tank, similiar to the Matilida, except it had less armor for speed.
Cromwell
Carried a 6pdr gun with decent armor protection and speed.
Churchill and its many different versions
A huge, slow tank with good armor, and a 6pdr howitzer that lack HE shells which vastly weaked its anti-personall effectiveness.
The brits made other tanks, but they never made enough of them imho to have them listed or included.
Other
French S-35
Considred the best tank in the world at the time,had a 47mm gun, good armor for its time and decent speed. Only about 600 were made and they were squandored because of poor tactics.
Char B-1bis
Huge tank that caused teh Germans isolated problems, but were never massed to really do anything big. Had a 47mm gun in the turret, and a 75mm in the hull. Massively armored for its time.
Czech Pz (38)t and (35)t
Were made by the Skoda manufacturing plants, were captured and used by the germans extensively. The 38t being a fast,but lightly armored tank that had a decent gun.
Vickers 6-ton tank (many countries)
Sold by England to many countries, primitive tanks outdated by WWII.
Italian M13/40
Emplyed a 47mm gun and a god-awful design (sorry, but its true), with terrible armor. Dubbed Iron coffins.
Italian Semnovette (might be spelled wrong)
SPG based on the M13 chassis, very succesful, mounted a 75mm gun with layerd armor that provided good armor protection against allied tanks.
Well, I think that should cover your tank needs
There was and never has been a tank designated Hellcat. That was the Navy carrier-based fighter-bomber in action 1943 on.
tcwonder3
M18 Hellcat Tank Destroyer, USA I know this is nitpicking, unless you dont count the tank destroyer as a real tank.
The soviet airplanes are a nice idea because not the "battle of britain" was the biggest airbattle ever but the "battle of Kursk"summer 1943.
Lurchfang
The battle of Krusk was the biggest tank battle in history.
Ok, now to the tanks and the strengths that should be included :
Germany:
Panzer I or II, either or very weak tanks, the Pz. I being armed with dual machine guns and nothing more, and the II having only a 20mm cannon. They were produced in large numbers and used until around 1942.
Panzer III
Two different versions of this tank were made, the initial one with the low velocity gun (50mm) saw action until it was upgraded to the newer Ausf J with the longer-barreled gun to try to counter the T-34 and KV-1 tanks the Germans were encountering on the Ostfront. (this increased the velocity at which the projectile moves, increasing the AP ability. Longer barrels = better basicaly)
Panzer IV
This tank should be included no matter what, as it was the most influentual German tank alongside the Panther, it was also produced in large numbers (by German standards
) up until the end of the war. The first vcersion was devised by Manstein in his view that he would need a tank (Pz III) to serve in the Anti-Tank role, while a another tank to hit personal targets. This is where the Pz IV was introduced, with a short barreled 75mm gun. It was later upgraded to Ausf G with the longer barreled 75mm gun that could better counter the Russian tanks. Another version, Ausf L added better protection for the tracks, and further extended the gun barrel length (from L/40 to L/48).Panther
Were devised to counter the Russian tanks and "burrowed"many of the design traits of the T-34. The first Panthers were employed at Kursk, where they suffered from mechanical problems (which were never fully solved throughout the war). The Panther employed a excellent 75mm gun that was almost (or equal) to the Tiger's 88mm gun. The sloped armor provided awesome protection which the Sherman's low velocity 75mm guns had a lot of trouble penetrating.
Tiger:
Produced in very small numbers (only about 1400) they were slow, heavy and suffered from mechanical problems. They also employed the same flak88mm gun used on the German 88s, and had excellent armor. Not much else to say.
It should also be noted that Stugs, Hetzers and their variations of SPG's were produced in great numbers and contributed greatly to the German fighting effort.
Soviets
BT-5 or 7
Lightly armed and armored Russian tanks using the Christie suspension system.Very fast, but not very powerful tanks.
T-34/76
Some say the best tank in the war, except for its lack of a better gun, it certainly would fit the bill for an almost perfect tank. Employing the Christie suspension system(that the USA refused to buy
) and sloped armor, as well as wide tracks which gave it better cross country ability, the Germans had a tough time fighting these things, which lead to the Panther etc. etc. KV-1
Used the same gun as the T-34, but with even better armor.
KV-1s
An improved KV-1 not worth mentioing
KV-2
A modified KV-1 that had a huge box like turret, and emplyed a huge howitzer like cannon. Very powerful, but cumbersome,and it was too easy to hit.
KV-85
A KV-1 tank with a long barreled 85mm gun with improved armor.
T34/85
Improved armor, and a long barreled 85mm gun to boot.
IS-2 (Iosef Staln)
Had 120mm gun and a ton of armor, played a major role in clearing the suburbs of Berlin and the German countryside of Bunkers, Tigers etc.
NOTE: Iosef is the Russian word for Joseph.
IS-3
Saw too little action in WW2 too be included.
The Russians also produced a wide range of SU guns (SU-76,SU85,SU100,SU122,SU152) that also served much the samerole as the German SPGs.
America
M3 Stuart
Crappy light tank with 37mm "door-knocker".
M5 Stuart
Much improved stuart.
M3 Grant
A stop-gap solution. Employed a 37mm gun in the turret and a 75mm gun in the hull with limited traverse. Had decent armor, but as one American tank commander put it "it looks like a damn cathedral coming down the road"
M4 Sherman
Improved armor, good reliability and more imprtantly, cheap to manufacture, these things were decent tanks, but unfortunately, only the British managed to get full use out of it by putting a 17pdr (76.2mm) long barreled gun on it. Otherwise the Sherman crews had to deal with either a 75mm or 76mm gun, that had poor velocity and couldnt penetrade Panther or Tiger armor unless at close range.
M10 Wolverine TANK DESTROYER
Since the US government didnt think tanks job was to kill other tanks, they regulated this task to tank destroyers The M10 featured an open topped turret with a long barrelted 76mm gun.
M18 Hellcat TANK DESTROYER
Virtually no armor, but extremely fast. Same 76mm gun.
M36 Slugger TANK DESTROYER
Good armor protection with a 90 or 76 mm long barreled gun (sry, I cant remember).
M26 Pershing
Saw very limited action, so I wouldnt include them. Similiar to the Panther, had a 90mm long barreled gun and good armor protection.
Britain
Matillda
Heavily armored, very slow "Infantry" tank witha pny 2 pdr gun that couldnt be upgraded because of the small turret.
Crusader
Used the Christie suspension system. Fast tank, but poor armor, a porr 2 pdr gun (that was later upgraded to a 6pdr)
and frequent breakdowns.
Valentine
Another "Infantry" tank, similiar to the Matilida, except it had less armor for speed.
Cromwell
Carried a 6pdr gun with decent armor protection and speed.
Churchill and its many different versions
A huge, slow tank with good armor, and a 6pdr howitzer that lack HE shells which vastly weaked its anti-personall effectiveness.
The brits made other tanks, but they never made enough of them imho to have them listed or included.
Other
French S-35
Considred the best tank in the world at the time,had a 47mm gun, good armor for its time and decent speed. Only about 600 were made and they were squandored because of poor tactics.
Char B-1bis
Huge tank that caused teh Germans isolated problems, but were never massed to really do anything big. Had a 47mm gun in the turret, and a 75mm in the hull. Massively armored for its time.
Czech Pz (38)t and (35)t
Were made by the Skoda manufacturing plants, were captured and used by the germans extensively. The 38t being a fast,but lightly armored tank that had a decent gun.
Vickers 6-ton tank (many countries)
Sold by England to many countries, primitive tanks outdated by WWII.
Italian M13/40
Emplyed a 47mm gun and a god-awful design (sorry, but its true), with terrible armor. Dubbed Iron coffins.
Italian Semnovette (might be spelled wrong)
SPG based on the M13 chassis, very succesful, mounted a 75mm gun with layerd armor that provided good armor protection against allied tanks.
Well, I think that should cover your tank needs
Sark6354201
Warlord
jeez, next time i should check to see if the thread is a year old
Similar threads
