Them lovely cattle!

[Bamspeedy]

Some more numbers to throw out:

Situation:
cow on grass
2 bonus grassland tiles
industrious civ
Irrigating gets the first settler out 4 turns sooner if you don't build any warriors before the settler. (This is where being expansionists is great-and playing with no barbs).

Irrigate cow first then mine the bonus grasslands gets you 3 settlers by ~turn 31 or so. Mining the cow gets you 2 settlers by ~the same time. This is if the worker mines/irrigates, and then builds a road.

If doing an OCC, or doing some sort of early military rush with just your capital at the start (no population loss from building settlers/workers):
Mining the cattle outproduces (accumulated shields) the irrigation until ~turn 30, but irrigating will produce more shields/turn by ~ turn 15.
(this will vary depending on how many shield producing tiles you have to use-I was basing this on having bonus grassland).

 

[billindenver]

Still learning about them thar cattle. I used to always mine them, now, I mostly irrigate them. As others have noted, you gotta love those 4 turn settler factories.

I had a city in my current game with 3 cattle, lined up in a row. Unfortunately, it wasn't my capital, and also unfortunately, I had to irrigate a lot of squares just to get to the cattle, and wait til my city borders expanded to get to them anyway. By the time all that was done, the initial expansion phase of the game was nearly over, so it wasn't much of a settler factory. (that reminds me, I should go back and mine that now).

 

[FenrysWulf]

Ivory-
I'm fully aware that if you irrigate your city grows faster, but whrrigation, and I can build a lot more units and buildings with the mines.

 

[FenrysWulf]

Ivory-
I'm fully aware that if you irrigate your city grows faster, but when you get to size six you have to wait for aqueducts and when you get to 12 you have to wait for hospitals, and in the case of hospitals it's a long wait. I don't see any reason to increase growth rate so you can get to 6 or 12 and then wait longer. That's like if you are driving and you are at a red light and it turns green, flooring it and so you get to the next red light 50 feet away and have to wait longer. I've found that my city grows fast enough without the irrigation, and I can build a lot more units and buildings with the mines.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Sure, the mine will produce more when your city is at size 1, and if you look at just that tile. But with the extra food by irrigating, you can work hills, mountains, etc. if you choose to do so (like when stuck at a population barrier). The extra food gives you more flexibility is how many of those low food tiles you can use (and get you to size 6 so much sooner).
Comparing +4 food to +3 food:
No granary: you get to size 6, 10 turns sooner, and size 12, 44 turns sooner.
With granary: size 6, 5 turns sooner and size 12, 22 turns sooner

One trick is once you reach those population barriers, move citizens to mountains, hills, forests, etc (so you have -zero- population growth), to be at max production.

 

[Moss]

Originally posted by RegentMan
What do you do to your grassland cattle that start next to your starting position?

You mean we're supposed to start with cattle nearby? Damn I'm starting over.

 

[RegentMan]

Originally posted by FenrysWulf
Ivory-
I'm fully aware that if you irrigate your city grows faster, but when you get to size six you have to wait for aqueducts...

But if you're producing settlers/workers, your population will always be below size six. Like Bamspeedy has said, with the irrigated cattle, you are able to work hills/mountains at max size, so being big isn't so bad. I'm going to irrigate from now on!

 

[thedirk]

I irrigate. Grow, grow, grow!!!

 

[Beanzy]

If I need to expand, I'll irrigate, and go settler crazy. But if it's later in the game and I already have built all the cities I'm going to build, then I'll mine it.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

i mine unless i have a lack of food or am playing a mod that doesnt allow grassland mining until later (dyp)

 

[nimbus99ca]

I usually don't send settlers out without an escort so I mine the square - I think the time you save creating the units compensates for the growth potential. I also find that the extra "specialist" citizens are only good for making people happy - (or as a scientist - but then you have to really micromanage everything) and the specialists don't contribute that much to the growth of the empire. I vote for the added production. But maybe I'm not expanding fast enough? I also don't like creating cities without a road to them - so again you have to wait while the roads are being built???

Am I way too conservative?

Thanks.

 

[Bamspeedy]

nimbus99ca- Use the luxury slider.

You definitely do not want to have any specialists that early in the game. You are right, they aren't worth it because they eat your food and contribute diddly squat to your empire. By setting the luxury rate to just 10 or 20% (when needed), can allow you to turn a specialist into a regular working citizen that should be able to get you some more shields and food to at least feed himself. And when you start on a river, he may also be able to work a tile by a river, picking up at least 1 gold, which pays for the 1 gold you are spending on the luxury tax.

If you irrigate, you will spend much more time at size 2-4 (or higher) instead of 1-3 which will net you more commerce/shields IF you use the luxury slider and no specialists.

Don't be waiting around for roads to be built.

I usually send my settlers unescorted. If the capital is growing fast, so it can build nothing but settlers, have other cities (like your second city) be building the military/escorts. Warriors are usually good enough for being escorts. You can use 2 warriors for the same cost as 1 spearman, but 1 warrior is good enough for an escort.
(NOTE: This is with single player Civ3. If you play on-line against humans, you may need to be more protective of your settlers!).

 

[ltcoljt]

Rather than use warriors or spearmen for garrisons or escorts I tend to use warriors to form a picket line on the perimeter of the tiles I occupy or intend to occupy. It is normally very possible to spot potential trouble in time to react to it. Plus, this reduces barbs as they don't encamp within your sight radius.

 

[HookEmHorns]

I just took a look at having 1 grassland cow and 2 bonus grass, all improved. The town starts at size 1 without a granary. At the beginning of turn 16, here's the accumulation of goods.

                Irrigated     Mined
Food               60           43 (2 foods wasted)
Population          4            3
Shields            66           67
Gold               60           54

Here's how the shields accumulate:
Turn     Irrigated     Mined
1             0           0
6            12          15
11           34          38
16           66          67

I think this illustrates the benefits of irrigating, trading 1 shield for 17 food and 6 gold. Obviously, changing the time frame changes the results.

Hook 'Em Horns

 

[Siegmund]

If you aren't afraid of pop-rushing, irrigating doesn't cost you production at all: those foods get converted to shields on a 1:1 basis when you rush something anyway, but in the meantime you get to enjoy the benefits of a larger city. If you have a granary, even better: now each extra food is worth TWO shields when you rush something!

 

[Flavor Dave]

I used to mine, now I irrigate. But for a slightly different reason from you guys. I'm a perfectionist type player, and with an irrigated grassland cow, you will have all of the workers you could ever want. And you won't waste pop. from any other city to do it.

 

[JMK]

What about moving your settler away from that cow