Theory of Reason in Life

[King Flevance]

Anyone who would like to see the possibilities of truth, stay tuned.
Theory will be on hold for a while now. Turns out faith is blind. I still have faith in Jesus. I just have no way to see except for faith in Jesus and the bible. I was blinded and didn't know it myself. This is a hard path to follow. I will modify the theory more as I become more learned on the bible. Please forgive me for being all over the board at once. Reason is no longer important. Rationality is everything to me now. I had to step outside of it to understand where my faith was. As my faith was being tested. Although, I am going to take the high road now as I see it is all I can do. If that makes no sense, I apologize. I will continue to post scripture in this thread though so we may discuss it.​

OK, now that we have gotten past the first part of all of this I am just going to say the reason behind this thread is to try and reveal truth in Christianity in life. Christians discussing their faith can only reveal wonderful things IMO.

One thing stressed in the bible though is that:
All faith should go to Jesus and the Lord God for guidance. And have faith in them. Their glory is awesome.

Christian's should have this on around atheists:

10A final word:Be strong with the Lord's mighty power.11Put on all of God's armor so that you will be able to stand firm against all strategies and tricks of the Devil.12For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, and against wicked spirits in the heavenly realms.

13Use every piece of God's armor to resist the enemy in time of evil, so that after the battle you will still be standing firm. 14Stand your ground, putting on the sturdy belt of truth and the body armor of God's righteousness. 15For shoes, put on the peace that comes from the Good News, so that you will fully be prepared. 16In every battle you will need faith as your shield to stop the fiery arrows aimed at you by Satan. 17Put on salvation as your helmet, and take the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18Pray at all times and on every occasion in the power of the Holy Spirit. Stay alert and be persistant in your prayers for all Christians everywhere.
19And pray for me, too. Ask God to give me the right words as I boldly explain God's secret plan that the Good News is for the Gentiles too.

These are great tools for defending our faith.

The Helm of Salvation: Is knowledge Jesus is your savior. That he will rescue you whenever you need help against the wicked of the world. And know that he will never condemn you if you have faith in him. The wicked will try and convince you that you are condemned by sin but do not believe them. They lie about Jesus and do not want you to follow Jesus because then they must give you over to him.

The Breastplate of Righteousness & Truth: These go hand in hand sort of. When the world is telling you that you are wrong for following Jesus do not let it waver your faith. As it is their faith that wavers when they try to condemn yours. Stand firm that Jesus and the Lord are Righteous. Stand firm in your faith do not the evil spirits in the world convince you that Jesus is not in your life. Because they don't speak truth as Jesus did. Hold truth that Jesus is your savior and all of mankind sins. Even we Christians sin but that does not make us hypocrits. We are righteous because we know truth.

Shoes of Good News: This is the message that comes from other Christians that preach the word in the name of the Lord Jesus. There are many people that follow our path in these shoes. Some have more experience than others on the path in the shoes. I personally am not very experienced yet but I am starting to grasp it better now. Mobboss probably has alot of experience in the shoes I would guess. These shoes are possibly the the purpose of this thread.

Shield of Faith: The Devil fires arrows at us to try and get past our faith and make us think he is behind everything good. Do not believe him. He is a liar. Use your faith in Jesus even in the darkest moments. That is the one thing we have that satan cannot take from us.

Sword of the Spirit: Fight back against satan using the word of the Lord. By trying to better understand the bible, we can learn to better use this sword. Knowing the scripture is holding the sword. Being able to interpret it is using the sword. We must have faith in the Holy Spirit to use it best.

This armor is what we Christians need to move forward. Battling with non-believers will leave you feeling drained. It is best to try and put this armor on and head to the "high road". If you are new to the faith or wavering, you need faith Jesus is guiding you and go to church and study the bible. Don't give in to sin. Resist it as hard as you can, right now I am personally feeling drained myself. Luckily, I have a bible study group I am going to tomorrow and church coming on Sunday. AT a time when your faith wavers, it is people of the faith you need not simply prayer.

Don't worry about the "my little theory" it is still messed up. It was just a point I was trying to get across. I am just going to deleting it so I don't have the hassle. I am taking the theory off. The point is we have every reason to believe. And it is too exhausting for me to keep it up solo. I will not preach because my life still has many sins in it. I need to walk the walk before I talk the talk. I am pretty sure all of the Armor interpretations are correct. Anyone who spots a foul up or something that should be added let me know and I will edit it.​

 

[GenMarshall]

I did not know that you were a Christian King Flevance.

I feel that God is all knowing and all powerful. Yet he has granted his creation the gift of free will.

 

[King Flevance]

Groovy ain't it?

 

[Prince_Imrahil]

It would be groovy if you guys could address these points that have gone unnoticed in my other thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar1011
Yes, evil exists. But why not blame the being that ruined God's perfect creation? (although God will at a future date restore that perfection- stay tuned!)

So satan, can cause so much trouble for god, or was that part of gods plan?
If satan can, thing i guess god isn't the almighty, because satan is just as mighty. (or but he didn't create anything, you say, but he did mess up it pretty bad, unless you say its not messed up with evil in the world, its part of the plan, in which you're also saying people going to hell and suffering in their life that is everything to THEM is nothing in the big picture of things, is all part of the great plan so that its no big deal)

Or if god isn't just a heartless god, and satan does have power apart from god that god can do nothing about, then, well, why is it god who is right? who is the the one leading to salvation? What if satan has a point and why does god burn people who are merely choose a way other than one he suggests?

its all or nothing for this jealous god, eh? he made the people, must've made hell to, made the tree, and the apple, and let satan roam free.... wait, why are blaming satan? I thought evil was free will, what if there was no satan?
could we still choose and do evil things?

If not, then satan is the cause of our evil and then god must've been powerless to stop him for he wouldnt want satan leading his creations down a path of hellfire.

and wait, if god made everything then he made satan too... now, did he make satan rebel and fall, or did he give all his angels free will as well and this one chose to, oppose god.

and if so, then what makes that opposition wrong? if you have a choice but arent allowed to do one?

.... did god set man up to fall or is this all a celestial 'accident'?

Please, don't respond with the, if you want to know find out, because this is my way of finding out, by asking people who are more 'learned' in the matter than i am. I read the bible and all that, i want to hear what you think.

And for those of you who get irritated at threads like this by people who 'dont what they're talking about' thats why the thread exists! Because I want to learn!!!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Eran of Arcadia
Why did God create the Tree in the Garden of Eden that apparently so frustrated His plan? Why was it necessary? Why was the serpent necessary?

Freedom of choice.....

Just like we have the freedom of choice to steal!!!!
That's the great thing about free will, we can CHOOSE to pay or steal, but one choice is wrong and has its reprecussions... but hey, in the great scheme of things, what matters is that we're ALLOWED to make either choice, no ones stopping us from that FREEDOM of choosing! Just like god. I think i'm getting the hang of it....


Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes
Just out of cruiosity what are your beleifs?

Since i'll appease your curiousity would you mind appeasing mine and telling me your thoughts on this whole matter?

As for my beliefs, isn't it obvious? I don't have any (in this god that is the topic of the OP.... save for the belief that it is a weird belief, and am curious in the reasoning behind it.. in this not the reasoning behind the belief, but the reasoning of the belief)

Not to say that your explanations fall on deaf ears, because they don't, I want to be informed and maybe, even be shown reason. I am not here to ridicule, as some might think, but to gain better understanding.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

This is what I think:

God is "all-powerful" - anything that can be done, He can do. But He is not omnipotent, as there are things that cannot be done. For instance, He cannot create a logical contradiction (like a rock so heavy He can't lift it. If He can create it, He can affect it.)

Also, and perhaps more importantly for us, He cannot do things such as give us all the benefits of free will without the cost. In other words, He had to set up a world in which evil is allowed because that is the price of free will, and He cannot take that price away.

And it is necessary to give us free will because without it, we cannot progress to become like Him - to in a sense "grow up" to become divine beings ourselves. He cannot just cause us to do this, we have to do it the hard way. Thus He allows evil to exist because ultimately the benefits are greater than the costs.

 

[King Flevance]

This is what I think:

God is "all-powerful" - anything that can be done, He can do. But He is not omnipotent, as there are things that cannot be done. For instance, He cannot create a logical contradiction (like a rock so heavy He can't lift it. If He can create it, He can affect it.)

And it stands to reason. (In our rational anyways.)

Also, and perhaps more importantly for us, He cannot do things such as give us all the benefits of free will without the cost. In other words, He had to set up a world in which evil is allowed because that is the price of free will, and He cannot take that price away.

To me, that sounds extremely reasonable, but as I see it I cannot push that 1% into God's rational. But like I said, that is right on the level with my reasoning.

And it is necessary to give us free will because without it, we cannot progress to become like Him - to in a sense "grow up" to become divine beings ourselves. He cannot just cause us to do this, we have to do it the hard way. Thus He allows evil to exist because ultimately the benefits are greater than the costs.

That is reasonable. But, lemme try to go a bit further just for fun. We can never be certain. But maybe he gave the angels free will knowing satan would rebel out of pride. He did this at the same time he gave us free will.

Satan and us both had reasonable minds that unlocked at the same time. Instant Free-Will humans upon creation had been spoken to by God. Satan rebelled at this point. The reason is as you say to teach us.

But in the end, God reasons we can never know while we exist in the rational world.

EDIT: The one thing that would be really pointless in here is trying to describe the truth about God and his reasons for rationality. Or anything else outside of our understanding. I believe the bible is within our understanding.

 

[King Flevance]

EDIT: wrong interpretation. Have reserved spot though

 

[King Flevance]

1.So satan, can cause so much trouble for god, or was that part of gods plan?

No human can answer this because no human knows God's reasonings. All we can ever know is God's reasons he put here for us. Satan cannot cause trouble for God, it only appears that way to us humans. Why? Because if you know God gave us reason you have to battle between God's reasoning (Jesus) and our stain frm the garden of eden (Satan).
Satan can only give our reasonable and rational minds problems. (Both sides.) He likes screwing with our mentalities. He gets off on it while he battles God Himself, or seems to from my perspective.

If satan can, thing i guess god isn't the almighty, because satan is just as mighty.

God is all mighty. We don't know his reasons. This little theory of yours Prince Imrahil, is what satan wants you to think. But satan is a liar and hates mankind. He hates us so much, it seems to me he doesn't want to be a part of our existance. Anyone who wishes to may follow him to hell. But if you do so for your own reasons, AFAIK they will actually the reasons satan put inside our rationals. So Satan will rule over hell, and satan hates humans. So, think about what a human in hell is going to have to go through. Death is going into hell "lake of fire" as well upon judgement day.

Satanor but he didn't create anything, you say, but he did mess up it pretty bad, unless you say its not messed up with evil in the world, its part of the plan,-snip-

Hold on now, we are still in the rational world. We just have a reason to believe a God exists. Also, that satan exists. Satan has plans of his own, and he is battling God to see if his views are what he thinks them to be. Satan has too much pride in his ideals though. I can't see any reason to even bother with his ideals personally.
It is part of the plan because we are in a world that is trying to carry out a plan of it's own. The world thinks it can define itself to 100% truth. And this is impossible. The only thing I know of as 100% provable is faith in Jesus Christ as our savior and that his teachings are from God. But only if you wish to accept it. Nothing else in the world is provable because everything else in the world stand to also be a lie from another perspective.

its part of the plan, in which you're also saying people going to hell and suffering in their life that is everything to THEM is nothing in the big picture of things,

Precisely. Even this is one of Jesus's teaching in the bible.

is all part of the great plan so that its no big deal)

Well, true it is part of the plan. But you should make it a big deal to know who's side of the plan you are on. Because humans cannot see all of the plan. Because we don't know God's reasoning, just the reasons that he gives us.

Or if god isn't just a heartless god, and satan does have power apart from god that god can do nothing about, then, well, why is it god who is right?

Not sure exactly what you mean, but I have a hard time seeing God as heartless is why. Satan is heartless not God.

who is the the one leading to salvation?

Jesus. I promise you can safely put all your faith in him to lead to salvation.

What if satan has a point and why does god burn people who are merely choose a way other than one he suggests?

Satan don't know what he is doing. He is just testing God's abilities himself through pride. But I wouldn't follow him if I were you. Because it is his selfishness that leads his battle. Anyone that follows satan to hell will surely regret it being a human. And being that satan is selfish and that is who you chose to follow.

its all or nothing for this jealous god, eh?

Not my God. Satan is the one gambling with your life. What does the Christian God have to be jealous of? He is all powerful. He allows Satan to roam on his leash. You should think of it as all or nothing that is what he is trying to teach you.

he made the people, must've made hell to, made the tree, and the apple, and let satan roam free.... wait, why are blaming satan?

Satan is giving God no choice but to make hell. This begins to tap into things beyond our abilities to understand about the world. This sentence tries to generalize too many things at once. So it gets murky. We really can't blame satan for his own reasons because we aren't the ones who are allowed to judge. Only God can judge satan and his word reveals why satan is wrong to follow. You must put faith in 'The Word' or 'The Bible'.

could we still choose and do evil things?

Yep, you have free will. But sometimes we do evil things without knowing it because we trust our own reasons too much. We must (IMO) trust God's reasons and He put them on Earth through the teachings of Jesus. (The bible in my belief)

If not, then satan is the cause of our evil and then god must've been powerless to stop him for he wouldnt want satan leading his creations down a path of hellfire.

This is why He is trying to communicate to everyone who can open their mind to Him being truth. The reason God is "powerless to stop him" is because God gave satan free will too. He could stop him by taking it back if he wanted to, but that wouldn't be 'fair' or 'justice'.

and wait, if god made everything then he made satan too... now, did he make satan rebel and fall, or did he give all his angels free will as well and this one chose to, oppose god.

Now your thinking. Because that is free will.

and if so, then what makes that opposition wrong? if you have a choice but arent allowed to do one?

We cannot judge satan, true. That is a responsibility of God's.
EDIT: I take that back, worded it wrong. We are not suppose to judge satan in mankind. It is hard to seperate the two since satan tries to carry out his will in mankind.

.... did god set man up to fall or is this all a celestial 'accident'?

No Christian can ever answer this for you 100% AFAIK. My guess is that 'free wills' between harmony and chaos presented itself. As it does in the world through democracies. The only way to reach harmony is to try and come to an understanding about truth. But everytime I try to come to understand truth in my life, it only proves that things in this world are never certain - except God and his teachings in the bible.

Please, don't respond with the, if you want to know find out, because this is my way of finding out, by asking people who are more 'learned' in the matter than i am.

Indeed. I am the same way. This is why I always approach fellow christians with an open mind. And why it can be so frustrating to be given answers such as these. I will always try to answer as truthfully as I know things to be. But please remember, to me "ultimate truth" will not come in this lifetime. But I do find part of its secrets to rest inside the bible.

I read the bible and all that, i want to hear what you think.

This is the most valuable way to read the bible. Because then together people can better understand it.

And for those of you who get irritated at threads like this by people who 'dont what they're talking about' thats why the thread exists! Because I want to learn!

It takes time, though. Patience and persistance are what lead you there. I promise I won't bail out on anyone but I need time to fully understand the "angles" that it comes to me from.

Just like we have the freedom of choice to steal!!!!
That's the great thing about free will, we can CHOOSE to pay or steal, but one choice is wrong and has its reprecussions...

So do you wish to pay for your life, or steal it? It was God that put it there for you. Not satan. Sorry if any of this comes off harsh. It is how I see things in my belief.

but hey, in the great scheme of things, what matters is that we're ALLOWED to make either choice, no ones stopping us from that FREEDOM of choosing! Just like god. I think i'm getting the hang of it....

This is satan talking. I want you to imagine satan and this is EXACTLY what satans reasons say. Do you choose to follow that mentality? Satan looks after himself in free will and expects anyone else to as well. He isn't backing anyone up but his own lies.

Not to say that your explanations fall on deaf ears, because they don't, I want to be informed and maybe, even be shown reason. I am not here to ridicule, as some might think, but to gain better understanding.

Bravo.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

satan's imaginal rational science

Are you able to say this with a straight face? Aren't you using one of "satan's imaginal rational computers"? Or is that exempted in your Grand Unified Theory of Unthinking?

 

[King Flevance]

Are you able to say this with a straight face? Aren't you using one of "satan's imaginal rational computers"? Or is that exempted in your Grand Unified Theory of Unthinking?

Yes, I have a very straight face. Atheists believe in science. They place their faith in it too much. Satan can try to mock me through rationality all he wants, I don't mind. Anything that exists, exists because of God. God has a reason He allowed computers to exist. Neither rational nor reasoning is certain to most people. Don't these computers constantly hold "bugs" we have a hard time finding because we don't know the reason? Truth can never be certain on anything but Jesus.

As a matter of fact, I am holding off on the theory until 'my philosophical scientific method' can best define it. So I have a 'scientific' mind without rational. But its based on both reason and rational. Science itself cannot provide reason. Just %'s to round off on. God can offer a reason to make it 100%. That reason is Jesus. As Jesus was a reasonable human being in our rational world.

 

[Shaihulud]

Being rational is a state of mind which is found through reasoning. Logic is the most basic underlying structure that we use for reasoning. These are interlinked, you cannot be a rational person without using logic to reason. Isn't that why religions frequently stresses the importance of faith? Because ultimately God/s is not found though rationality, reason or logic.

 

[King Flevance]

Being rational is a state of mind which is found through reasoning. Logic is the most basic underlying structure that we use for reasoning. These are interlinked, you cannot be a rational person without using logic to reason. Isn't that why religions frequently stresses the importance of faith? Because ultimately God/s is not found though rationality, reason or logic.

Logic does not have to be underlying. Logic can step outside of rationality. That is what I had to do to get this theory to relate to how I view life. But I agree that we need to use both equally to see truth. A christian with alot of faith in Jesus seems very irrational. This is my theory of why that I 'stumbled' upon by trying to relate my views to an atheist. Stumbled is a key word, but Jesus saved me in the end. Because I believe he is my savior.

Your reason can go beyond rationality if you want/need it to. I was trying to show atheists I have every reason to believe in God I need. And I have every reason to believe Jesus is my savior. I could only do that by trying to show them my reasoning.

God cannot be found in rationality or in reason of the average human mind. Only Jesus can. But Jesus could 'see' God's rationality and reasoning. And he allowed this 'Theory' to show up in the rational world because of it. How you personally view the reason is not important. Remember it is the message that is important. Not the messenger. And always place all your faith in Jesus. Because satan's reasoning and rationality also exist outside our own, but his reasoning invades our lives as well as his rationality. So, I always place my faith in Jesus's reasoning and rationality.

 

[Fifty]

Your definitions of reasoning and rationality are bizarre, and so is your conception of what it means for something to be logical. I recommend a dictionary and/or a logic class.

 

[Truronian]

Sorry, but your theory doesn't make much sense. The underlying 'science is the tool of the devil' message is fun though.

 

[King Flevance]

Your definitions of reasoning and rationality are bizarre, and so is your conception of what it means for something to be logical. I recommend a dictionary and/or a logic class.

What I consider 'logical' is trying to save people from their 'uncertain' doom. I had to step outside of rationality to show my reason of why I feel it is important to do so. The theory will make more sense maybe when I can decifer all of this. Everyone said they needed a reason to follow the bible. OK, IMO you just got one.

I don't care about a dictionary's view of these definitions. That is too rational for these purposes it seems. I care about anyone that needs to see why following the bible is important. And I am trying to relate that. Until I can fully decifer this theory it will be on hold. Then, I will probably expand on it after that.

 

[King Flevance]

Sorry, but your theory doesn't make much sense. The underlying 'science is the tool of the devil' message is fun though.

Indeed it is fun. It will be modified later though, I promise. I know it doesn't make much sense yet, but I need time to relate all the aspects of it.

 

[Fifty]

What I consider 'logical' is trying to save people from their 'uncertain' doom. I had to step outside of rationality to show my reason of why I feel it is important to do so. The theory will make more sense maybe when I can decifer all of this. Everyone said they needed a reason to follow the bible. OK, IMO you just got one.

I don't care about a dictionary's view of these definitions. That is too rational for these purposes it seems. I care about anyone that needs to see why following the bible is important. And I am trying to relate that. Until I can fully decifer this theory it will be on hold. Then, I will probably expand on it after that.

Regardless of whatever bizarre definitions you have, if you're formulating a persuasive argument on the premise that it doesn't make a lick of sense but you should believe it anyways, nobody is going to take your theory seriously.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Regardless of whatever bizarre definitions you have, if you're formulating a persuasive argument on the premise that it doesn't make a lick of sense but you should believe it anyways, nobody is going to take your theory seriously.

Ah, what's the world coming to when I feel that Fifty has said all that needs to be said on a particular issue ?

 

[Fifty]

Ah, what's the world coming to when I feel that Fifty has said all that needs to be said on a particular issue ?

"typical"





..

 

[King Flevance]

Regardless of whatever bizarre definitions you have, if you're formulating a persuasive argument on the premise that it doesn't make a lick of sense but you should believe it anyways, nobody is going to take your theory seriously.

Cleared.
10 min.