amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
His platform includes taxing “richer and whiter” neighborhoods.
Zohran Mamdani
- Thread starter Voidwalkin
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Klaus Hergersheimer
Emperor
If you're going to cite how government has stepped in to rescue failing grocery stores in small towns, that's even less of an argument for why it must do so in a large city like NYC where they're so ubiquitous to begin with that one going under doesn't effect very much: just walk/ride an extra few blocks
Though Mamdani seems to be of the belief that he simply doesn't want private entities to exist without a public counterpart, period. Regardless of whether people are really clambering for it because of poor health.
It's a very armchair theorist view of things but I guess it's a valid opinion...
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Voidwalkin
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AFAIK it was a staffer who said that and that person should be dismissed immediately. I would also find pretexts and dismiss all their friends, and perhaps their friends for good measure.
It's a much bigger deal than the college thing.
If the goal is something like Huey Long, who as far as I'm concerned should be something of a progressive icon, such language cannot be used; it will breach trust sufficient to prohibit all but marginal success.
danjuno
Cole Phelps, Badge 1247
The point is the what, not the why. They may exist for different reasons, but the point is they are not some fantasy that no one's ever heard of before.
Right, because private business never does anything that would warrant people wanting an alternative.
Klaus Hergersheimer
Emperor
In other words there is no actual need for what Mamdani is proposing. It's just "we can't trust for-profit enterprises."
Which, okay, you inherently shouldn't, but that's why a market with many many shopping choices can and should continue to exist.
Which, okay, you inherently shouldn't, but that's why a market with many many shopping choices can and should continue to exist.
danjuno
Cole Phelps, Badge 1247
If something cannot be trusted, why is there "no actual need" for an alternative?
That sounds more like a strawman than anything else. You create a fictional take of Mamdani's position and then proceed to argue against those fictional positions, in complete disregard of his actual positions.
And no, offering a small-level alternative to private corporations can very much fill a need if said corporations get too greedy for the average person. Such a stance has nothing whatsoever to do with ending private shopping markets. The leap from what is actually being proposed to what you are talking about is gargantuan, it could hardly be further apart.
As for his chances: seeing how the leadership of the democrats is failling all over themselves to sabotage him, you sort of know where this will be heading. If there is one thing you can count on, it is for democrats to rather shoot themselves in their own foot than doing the right thing.
GoodEnoughForMe
n.m.s.s.
I feel like I need to remind everyone weirded out in this thread that ERIC ADAMS is the current mayor of NYC, and there is literally no universe in which Mamdami is as corrupt or just plainly patently stupid. NYC has survived 100000000 times worse.
Klaus Hergersheimer
Emperor
Feel free to correct me: Mamdani has said that he thinks there should be a public option for food just as there would be for health care. And he says that because he's a socialist, and that's what socialists will say...
But I don't really have an opinion on the grocery stores; I just don't see it as something being expressed by the actual New Yorkers who would presumably be voting for him.
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
Two words, Grocery Prices
Also, Government-run grocery stores aren't a new thing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Commissary_Agency
Klaus Hergersheimer
Emperor
Oh yes they certainly can.
I don't like what he did either because it's essentially a lie, but I have to be realistic and say his mere embellishment of a college record probably won't count for very much among Mamdani's audience. In fact, those who are invested in him winning would probably have wanted him to game the system for understanding that checking the box "African American" would increase his chances of being accepted, such is the prestige assigned to having a university education in America today. It's like, why wouldn't you want to improve your odds? It'd be the school's fault for having race-based admissions to begin with.
Sen. Elizabeth Warren claimed to have native American ancestry and that has positively zero adverse effects on her, besides some well-deserved mocking...
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
Voidwalkin
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If you limit the focus to what happens, yeah, that's true. What will happen is nothing.
If you widen the focus to what does not happen, that Zohran fails to garner support from outside deep blue areas, all of the sudden, these sorts of things become much more important.
The status quo is that despite having the best set of material policies, progressives fail to catch on with the general public. It's not super mysterious why. The idpol is fractious. If Mamdani is to change that status quo, he really has to avoid playing it and there he is so far falling short.
Like, one of the great political questions of our era is, roughly, "will the public accept our social views if we give them a better material deal?", and it's been asked by the bouge. They have their answer, if they care to honestly appraise election results: no.
They will NBD it for now because said ideology is far too deeply entrenched, but it is limiting, and unless Mamdani can rebrand to a vision of leftism unreliant upon it, yeah, he'll be marginal and perhaps eventually vulnerable in NYC itself(as his promises fail to materialize without support from higher offices he cannot capture with present vibes).
Senethro
Overlord
No. They just give as little material policy as they can under any and all circumstances because they're bought. They are in no way limited by, or in need of trading it for supposed idpol advancement.
Voidwalkin
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That would be an awfully convenient thing, wouldn't it?
Allows an ideology based movement to go forth without introspection regarding the worth, flaws, or even lesser things like failures in persuasion.
Alas, I'm extremely confident that the average Cletus who actually votes for the other guy is not bought and paid for. His values just are not as you'd like them to be. Persuade, finesse, or lose.
Allows an ideology based movement to go forth without introspection regarding the worth, flaws, or even lesser things like failures in persuasion.
Alas, I'm extremely confident that the average Cletus who actually votes for the other guy is not bought and paid for. His values just are not as you'd like them to be. Persuade, finesse, or lose.
Senethro
Overlord
More convenient than your rationalization that the Democratic establishment is compromised by idpol ideology, and not corporate interests?
Are you sure you're not just projecting your own distaste for what you call idpol onto them for a two for one, absent of all evidence?
Voidwalkin
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Yeah, definitely more convenient. It is not as though the chance to vote for progressives hasn't been there, people just didn't, particularly in the last two Democratic primaries.
Again: rest assured, nobody is bribing Cletus to vote Republican, and nobody is bribing Maryanne, the 76 year old lifelong Dem, to vote Biden instead of Bernie. Or HRC, fwiw.
Again: rest assured, nobody is bribing Cletus to vote Republican, and nobody is bribing Maryanne, the 76 year old lifelong Dem, to vote Biden instead of Bernie. Or HRC, fwiw.
Senethro
Overlord
Just to be clear, the bought comment was with regard to the Democratic establishment. The guys who set policy and repeatedly choose no significant material enhancement.
Lexicus
Deity
A lot to unpack here...
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
This race conversation is ridiculous. Yes on first pass he looks like he was gaming it. But then his reply was rock solid obvious, it’s a complex identity.
Understand that “black” is a skin color for most of the world’s local race systems.
In Central America, being Asian (indian etc) with dark skin, being Latino with dark skin, being African or Arab or whatever with dark skin is black. Being the same with light skin is white. Being the same with medium skin is brown.
My wife came here and looked around, had some papers to check, and was like, I guess I’m black? I was like, well, probably not? The checkboxes are 100% based on American legacy racism and don’t make any sense to outsiders let alone many insiders.
An 18 year old son of an academic is 100% going to assert his identity in a “disruptive” way on a college app, not to game the system though it would be acknowledged its place, but to proudly challenge the status quo “we are African and I am not white therefore I am African American take that the system”
Understand that “black” is a skin color for most of the world’s local race systems.
In Central America, being Asian (indian etc) with dark skin, being Latino with dark skin, being African or Arab or whatever with dark skin is black. Being the same with light skin is white. Being the same with medium skin is brown.
My wife came here and looked around, had some papers to check, and was like, I guess I’m black? I was like, well, probably not? The checkboxes are 100% based on American legacy racism and don’t make any sense to outsiders let alone many insiders.
An 18 year old son of an academic is 100% going to assert his identity in a “disruptive” way on a college app, not to game the system though it would be acknowledged its place, but to proudly challenge the status quo “we are African and I am not white therefore I am African American take that the system”
