There is something we can do to help Firaxis recover from the layoffs

[Kenshiro70]

I know everyone is downhearted about the layoffs. However, we at CivFanatics are in a unique position to help out Firaxis going forward.

I'm talking about the "orphan" Mods. There are a bunch of them, really good ones (like Zhekoff's Diplomacy Banners) that haven't gotten ported to Steam Workshop and are starting to become obsolete. If you want to help out and you know one of the original authors, it would really help if you ask them to either port the mod or work with another modder to pass over ownership.

And if you're a modder, consider either taking over one of the orphans or incorporating its functionality into your own Steam workshop mod then putting a reference to being the "spiritual successor" to the other mod.

I'll be honest, the only reason I made it to 1100 play hours was the 40+ mods I was running that kept me from going insane with the UI jankiness. We need to make sure that others have the same opportunity.

Scott (aka Kenshiro70)

 

[SeelingCat]

Are there specific mod/features that folks are missing in particular? The Diplomacy Banners mod you mentioned, for example, looks like it shares some features with Leugi's Diplomacy Ribbon Tweaks mod.

One issue with some (many?) of the mods that you may be referring to is that the author is no longer active on CFC, so there's not an immediate way to contact them to see if they'd be okay with someone else picking up the development of their mod. There are some other reasons that I think many modders would be reticent to adopt a mod outright (unfamiliar codebase, different priorities, lack of idea "ownership"/design process, an additional mod to maintain, etc.), but doing all that without permission from the original author I think just exacerbates the issue(s).

All in all, I think if people can be specific about the features they want to see revived, the more likely it is to happen - at the same time, it also has to align with what a modder is interested in doing. As an example, I know people have mentioned missing the yield grid from Suk's UI mod, but I think that's unlikely for another modder to pick up for basically all the reasons in the previous paragraph.

 

[DennisCastro]

Kenshiro, you are truly the best of us.

 

[timmychompchomp]

Are there specific mod/features that folks are missing in particular? The Diplomacy Banners mod you mentioned, for example, looks like it shares some features with Leugi's Diplomacy Ribbon Tweaks mod.

One issue with some (many?) of the mods that you may be referring to is that the author is no longer active on CFC, so there's not an immediate way to contact them to see if they'd be okay with someone else picking up the development of their mod. There are some other reasons that I think many modders would be reticent to adopt a mod outright (unfamiliar codebase, different priorities, lack of idea "ownership"/design process, an additional mod to maintain, etc.), but doing all that without permission from the original author I think just exacerbates the issue(s).

All in all, I think if people can be specific about the features they want to see revived, the more likely it is to happen - at the same time, it also has to align with what a modder is interested in doing. As an example, I know people have mentioned missing the yield grid from Suk's UI mod, but I think that's unlikely for another modder to pick up for basically all the reasons in the previous paragraph.

I have a question. Why does anyone care about the blessings of a modder who no longer supports their mod? I personally don’t see a moral/ethical issue here. It’s not as if they created the game or have a financial stake in it. They are manipulating the work of another to begin with. Are they getting paid in some significant way I am not aware of? I can understand some type of modders code or conduct for actively supported mods, but even that doesn’t really matter much in my opinion.

 

[SeelingCat]

I have a question. Why does anyone care about the blessings of a modder who no longer supports their mod? I personally don’t see a moral/ethical issue here. It’s not as if they created the game or have a financial stake in it. They are manipulating the work of another to begin with. Are they getting paid in some significant way I am not aware of? I can understand some type of modders code or conduct for actively supported mods, but even that doesn’t really matter much in my opinion.

I can't speak for all modders, but I can give my own personal take (at the risk of derailing this thread - sorry!). While you're correct that there's not a legal/financial issue in most cases, for me it comes down to recognizing that modding work is still work (i.e. labor/effort) - that someone spent time, energy and creativity to make a mod and that they should have a say in how their work persists (or doesn't). I'm not opposed to mod adoption by any means - I took over custody for a number of Civ 6 mods and have been working on one or two for Civ 7 - but I've only done so with the blessing of the original creator(s), because that's how I'd want other people to treat my own work. Even if I don't have any legal or financial right to my mods, they still represent hundreds (maybe thousands at this point??) of hours of my time and are things I created with my proverbial own two hands - and it would be more than a bit demoralizing/frustrating if someone else copied or re-released that work without asking. Modding isn't a paying job (alas) and people get busy with real life or lose interest in a game for a time - and it's hard to say when it's "safe" to assume that someone won't be returning to a project: is it a week? a month? a year? as soon as a patch breaks it? Then what happens if they come back and update their original mod and now you have two "competing" mods?

That being said, there's no monopoly on ideas - there are plenty of mods that tackle the same topic from different angles, and the game's ecosystem is generally richer for it. But - for me at least - copying the majority of an existing mod's codebase and/or imagery/assets/"branding" is in poor taste. There's nothing wrong with a modder taking their own spin on it though - it just has to align with what the modder is interested in doing, where it lands in their priorities, etc.

 

[JNR13]

I can't speak for all modders, but I can give my own personal take (at the risk of derailing this thread - sorry!). While you're correct that there's not a legal/financial issue in most cases, for me it comes down to recognizing that modding work is still work (i.e. labor/effort) - that someone spent time, energy and creativity to make a mod and that they should have a say in how their work persists (or doesn't). I'm not opposed to mod adoption by any means - I took over custody for a number of Civ 6 mods and have been working on one or two for Civ 7 - but I've only done so with the blessing of the original creator(s), because that's how I'd want other people to treat my own work. Even if I don't have any legal or financial right to my mods, they still represent hundreds (maybe thousands at this point??) of hours of my time and are things I created with my proverbial own two hands - and it would be more than a bit demoralizing/frustrating if someone else copied or re-released that work without asking. Modding isn't a paying job (alas) and people get busy with real life or lose interest in a game for a time - and it's hard to say when it's "safe" to assume that someone won't be returning to a project: is it a week? a month? a year? as soon as a patch breaks it? Then what happens if they come back and update their original mod and now you have two "competing" mods?

That being said, there's no monopoly on ideas - there are plenty of mods that tackle the same topic from different angles, and the game's ecosystem is generally richer for it. But - for me at least - copying the majority of an existing mod's codebase and/or imagery/assets/"branding" is in poor taste. There's nothing wrong with a modder taking their own spin on it though - it just has to align with what the modder is interested in doing, where it lands in their priorities, etc.

In addition, many authors of "ophaned" mods are still active. I have ported some of mine to the Workshop. But not all, yet. There are quite a few and it takes time as some might need updates first (or I *want* to update them first, also possible). This means that the first step should always be to try talking to the author.

It can also feel a bit patronizing and intrusive to call them "orphaned" just because someone hasn't gotten around to porting them yet. There are plenty of reasons for doing so and users have no standing to set deadlines or something like that for modders to get their plans done. A modder's performance is only accountable to their own ambitions and desires. As the saying goes "it's done when it's done."

I have a question. Why does anyone care about the blessings of a modder who no longer supports their mod? I personally don’t see a moral/ethical issue here. It’s not as if they created the game or have a financial stake in it. They are manipulating the work of another to begin with. Are they getting paid in some significant way I am not aware of? I can understand some type of modders code or conduct for actively supported mods, but even that doesn’t really matter much in my opinion.

As Seeling said, we get paid in gratitude. If the entire community told modders to shut up and dance, there'd eventually be fewer modders and mods. So you have it backwards. If there is no money going around, mutual respect is the only foundation the community can stand on. Offending the people who make you free stuff is generally a bad idea.

Some modders okay with putting out their work under the Cathedral approach. Others prefer to keep more control. Many might fall somewhere in between. I like to keep control of my creations at first and then open them up later when I no longer work on them any further. For example, I've recently made all my project files for Civ VI available to other modders with open license, as part of moving on to Civ VII. In the end it's all about consent.

 

[timmychompchomp]

In addition, many authors of "ophaned" mods are still active. I have ported some of mine to the Workshop. But not all, yet. There are quite a few and it takes time as some might need updates first (or I *want* to update them first, also possible). This means that the first step should always be to try talking to the author.

It can also feel a bit patronizing and intrusive to call them "orphaned" just because someone hasn't gotten around to porting them yet. There are plenty of reasons for doing so and users have no standing to set deadlines or something like that for modders to get their plans done. A modder's performance is only accountable to their own ambitions and desires. As the saying goes "it's done when it's done."



As Seeling said, we get paid in gratitude. If the entire community told modders to shut up and dance, there'd eventually be fewer modders and mods. So you have it backwards. If there is no money going around, mutual respect is the only foundation the community can stand on. Offending the people who make you free stuff is generally a bad idea.

Some modders okay with putting out their work under the Cathedral approach. Others prefer to keep more control. Many might fall somewhere in between. I like to keep control of my creations at first and then open them up later when I no longer work on them any further. For example, I've recently made all my project files for Civ VI available to other modders with open license, as part of moving on to Civ VII. In the end it's all about consent.

It’s what I thought. It’s the modders code, which makes sense. I know I wouldn’t care if I were a modder, nor would I care about the opinions of the people who use my mod. I would mod because I want to and would share without any kind of need for adulation or acknowledgment, but that’s just me. I still think abandoned mods are fair game, but I get it. I understand my way is not the modders way in general and I respect that.

 

[Glassmage]

No! Firaxis and 2K are responsible for their own decisions. No bailouts!