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They need to hotfix AI agression now

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by godman85, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    One thing I think would be cool to add to the game is low warmongering penalties at earlier Eras and higher ones as the game goes on. This would encourage earlier warmongering and make later warmongers truly hated, which is sort of how war is seen.

    For example (using fictitious numbers), warmongering increases by:

    1/city conquered in Ancient/Classical
    2/city conquered in Medieval/Renaissance
    3/city conquered in Industrial/Modern
    4/city afterward.

    In addition, warmongering penalties should decrease over time to keep early warmongers from being hated just because of what they did thousands of years ago. So if you manage to limit your wars than you shouldn't be hated by everyone else for the rest of the game.
     
  2. Magean

    Magean Prince

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    Yes, Shaka, Genghis or Attila are still warmongering maniacs. Fortunately.

    But what I'm complaining about is that average leaders have become like pacifist leaders only should be.
     
  3. Magean

    Magean Prince

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    Or perhaps the warmongering penalty could depend on the size of the cities you've conquered. When you take a population 1 city, you only disperse some settlers and claim a land over which your opponent had no strong claim. But when you sack a size 25 capital, that's not the same thing.
     
  4. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    That's 3 out of 43? With 90+% of all units military in nature, couldn't more civs make better use of them? Why should they not be able to use their classical/medieval UU more instead of waiting until they become obsolete?
     
  5. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    In my last game I just got my rear end handed to me by Denmark and Arabia. What shocked me was the efficiency of the AI's ass-kicking. I was taken in 4 turns after "helping" them take out Egypt. It didn't waste its bombers on my infantry or artillery instead focusing on all 4 of my cities at once, utilizing all 3 forms of warfare(land, air, and sea). To anyone thinking the AI's a wimp think again.
     
  6. JustinianIV

    JustinianIV Warlord

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    I don't know how I feel about this now... I'm playing my third immortal game, and I had Boudicca DoW me relentlessly. So, it's clear that there is some aggression. This the second time I've had a civ DoW me, and it made sense on her part; she was aiming to warmonger and I was closest to her (and weakest).

    I've taken care of Boudicca. Now I've reached a peculiar point of my game that GnK never really had: my biggest rivals are all working and growing with each other. They won't be bribed into war. This has made it difficult for me and has caused me to seriously reconsider my modes of thinking.

    In other words, this is amazing!
     
  7. BluegrassGeek

    BluegrassGeek Warlord

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    Yep, that's been my experience as well. The AI doesn't DoW at the drop of a hat anymore, they actually try to figure out if it's more worthwhile to work with you (or other AIs) instead. If you have something they want, though, they'll turn on you just the same.
     
  8. Magean

    Magean Prince

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    In my last game (Emperor), I started with Attila as my closest neighbour. I was a bit pissed off. Then, Pedro of Brazil, who had his capital far, far away, planted a settler between Attila and me. I don't know why. That happened quite early in the game (classical era).

    Of course, Pedro had no army, as always. The city was extremely vulnerable. And... Attila waited until the late Medieval era to launch his first war !

    He easily took that Brazilian city. But he did it a bit late. Attila used to rush his way with battering rams early in the game. In that game however, he stayed peaceful for a long time and attacked with his (obsolete) rams surprisingly late.
     
  9. JustinianIV

    JustinianIV Warlord

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    From GnK, I've become so accustomed to sowing chaos in my enemies that it became a crutch. Now the AI doesn't always play ball.

    Now I'm probably going to have to do a bit of spying for the purpose of getting intrigue that I can use to (hopefully) pit them against each other. If I can start getting them to hate each other I will then proceed to propose some offensive economic sanctions via the WC. Brazil is just growing and they should hit hotels in around 30 turns. This concerns me.
     
  10. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Justinian, I am truly glad for you now... I remember you from the first two weeks, and how fiercely we were debating this "issue" back then... I am TRULY glad to see that time has made some of you see the new expansion in the different light that it is supposed to be seen in, and start to enjoy it.

    Beware of the WC. Some in the forums are criticizing this component also, arguing that it is too easy... not a fact. I have seen many clever attempts from the AI to stop me, or any other AI that represents a threat, with any means necessary... you really need to pay attention to diplo now, right from the start, or they make you pay for it, when the WC times come.
     
  11. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    My most current game, Zulu dow early. I was on Iroquois and was just aiming for either science or diplo end-game.
     
  12. JustinianIV

    JustinianIV Warlord

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    Thanks! I am also glad that this expansion is causing me to think differently strategically.

    I haven't found DVs to be particularly easier than SVs. I think a lot of the success I've had in DVs is because I chose to play diplomatically based on that being my best option. If there are no diplo-heavy civs, then it should make it easier for me to win this way.

    CVs are still something I need to figure out.
     
  13. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    Can you elaborate a bit on the bolded?
     
  14. JustinianIV

    JustinianIV Warlord

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    Short answer:
    Again, this is not a complaint, it is a compliment. Pre-BNW I was used to simply bribing neighbours to war with each other. It was easy. Now the problem is they don't hate each other. The ballgame in GnK was simply relying on using wars as an crutch to win.

    Long answer:
    I tried to take a screenshot using print screen, but it just came out blank. I'll have to describe to you the map.

    Ethiopia and Brazil are both immediate neighbours, in fact they have two cities which are inter-locking. Brazil even has one fairly old city which is isolated completely on the other side of the Ethiopian empire, and Ethiopia also has a city which only recently connected to their empire. Before that it was behind a Brazilian city. These two men do not want to go to war against anybody, they are just trading friendly and growing like weeds.

    Spain is just to their south. Not a single war has happened on that half of the pangaea. It's turn 260 on Immortal. The wars are happening on the second half, and I'm in the middle. Even Hiawatha is playing it peaceful. The result is that every civ (except Boudicca who is paying for her warmongering) has some sort of advantage which is causing them to ignore going to war themselves:

    Brazil has tourism
    Ethiopia has the best religion
    Spain has science
    Poland is dominating Celts in war
    Hiawatha has ICS
    Ottomans have the most wonders
    Shoshone...well they have me at the helm [pimp]
     
  15. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    Last two games over the past week on Immortal have not gone well at all - all due to aggressive civs. The first one I wanted to see what religion could do for me (in terms of helping with culture/diplomacy win) as the Celts but next door Japan had other ideas. This weekend, I wanted to explore the Liberty->Tradition->Aesthetics line to amass culture as Poland but first Aztecs and then later, Shoshone ruined all of that. Both times (even with multiple attempts), I purposely left my cities quite vulnerable - just had the usual 5-6 CompBows while I focused on the top half techs. It was not a surprise, mind you, they never wanted a DoF and others had trouble with them, including my friend Iroquois.

    Playing at that level, you don't know what to expect - numerous aggressive opponents or passive ones like my first game (apart from the usual suspects like Zulu or Huns). The game could play easy or very hard. But I am going to have to go back to playing more balanced and really ramp up science earlier so I can get to Machinery/Physics while still doing Philo-Education-Acoustics-Archaelogy.
     
  16. fat_tonle

    fat_tonle Prince

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    I have had no issues on Immortal. As long as I can get 3-4 cities up and growing with little hinderance early, I tend to rock. It is annoying avoiding the Diplo AI when you are playing versus Sweden or Alexander. If I am not going Patronage, then I obviously have to postpone a rising delegate count from a Diplo AI. Science, Culture, even domination, all very attainable regardless of what civ you are playing as. It's just too easy. TOO easy. Might have to play at Diety for a good challenge while I wait for Total War to come out. My suggestion, fix the CS's again and reduce gold gift buying. And bump aggression up sensibly. Simple solutions.
     
  17. evilcat

    evilcat Warlord

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    As for experience: I have a decent luck to experience some agression, sometimes against me. :)

    There are this offcially warmogering civs which are doing their stuff.
    Then there is a bunch of backstabbers, who just wait for the moment to strike.
    The AI are fighting against each other.

    Some examples:
    - Quite often around T80 there is this first push of like 9 units which are just storming my gates.
    - Around renessance there is another window, mostly couse they fill all last gap of space, and AI just want to expand, and expand for no reason.
    - Sometimes around gunpoweder there is a clean-up when big civs are eating smaller.

    So at least for me, there is enought agression. I still remembre the game when France, US, China, Ottomans was just fighting other all the time in various configurations.

    From the other side, sometimes there is this clickfest till T150, when all are just DoF each other. And nothing really happens.

    I like idea of adding era factor. Before modern era war should be more acceptable.
     

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