This game feels lifeless...

stiefel_ss said:
This whole streamlining/dumbing-down of civ is getting out of hand. That units simply upgrade by magic now, and I'm thinking the quotes looking like something out of a high school freshman's English journal is intentional. I remember I hated the living out of Civ V when it first came out because of how dumbed down (not to mention broken) it was from even vanilla Civ IV.

My first post here was a suggestion that would help fix the problem OP points out with lifelessness, but now I don't think that or any other such measure will be implemented by the devs to make civs/colonies more interesting. It's definitely slack that modders will have to pick up. The next DLC will more than likely be another faction led by another faceless suit.
Click to expand...

I actually like that, instead of the chore and expense of having to go through every unit and constantly upgrade them. And then to save money, you don't bother to upgrade that axeman you've got garrisoning that backwater city, whilst the rest of your army consists of riflemen and tanks.

But agree with the others about the interface, lack of character/personality etc
 
For those who think it's not worth $50...
Price on steam in Australia is $89.99USD, or $102.35 local dollars

2K always hit us with the Australia tax.
 
I find that I'm in favor of the minimalist UI. The story of the game is rather vague, but they did intentionally leave a great deal of that up to the imagination of the player.
 
hardcore_gamer said:
I agree with peoples claims that the game is lifeless.

However, what I so far hate the most about it is that inspite of basically being a fancy mod for Civ 5, the game is actually missing some very important features from that game.

What happened to the information screen where I could compare different factions to each other? Why can't I see who has the most production, who as the most wealth, who is the leading army power and so on anymore?

Another thing I noticed is that it doesn't appear to be possible to tell cities to stop growing anymore, meaning that if you want to limit population growth you have to do it through micromanagment. Why?

And what happened to the UN? I think even the original AC had some kind of UN feature, and Civ 5 already has it if you have the expansions. Since Beyond earth is just a port of Civ 5 with new graphics and few new mechanics, why did they not also include the UN mechanic to make diplomacy interesting?

It's mainly those things that are making me dislike this game. The fact that it isn't very different from Civ 5 is bad in and of itself, but the fact that it actually appears to have fewer features is what really gets under my skin. I feel like I am playing a lesser version of Civ 5 with a space theme.

While this is not a bad game, it's not worth the 40 bucks I paid for it.
Click to expand...

Look at the DiploVotePopup.xml in the common files (Assets\UI\InGame\Popups\DiploVotePopup). A UN feature is probably planned for some paid DLC. :sad:

Code: 
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!-- edited with XMLSPY v2004 rel. 2 U (http://www.xmlspy.com) by Anton Strenger (Firaxis Games) -->
<Context Style="FontNormal14" FontStyle="Base" Color0="Beige">
	<Instance Name="DiploVoteButton">
		<GridButton Anchor="L,C" Style="BaseButton" ID="Button" Size="400,42" Offset="0,15">
			<Box Anchor="L,C" Color="0.200.0.0" Offset="30,0">
				<Image ID="CivIconBG" Size="45.45" Anchor="C,C" Offset="0,0" TextureOffset="77,0" Texture="CivIconBGSizes.dds"/>
				<Image ID="CivIconShadow" Size="32.32" Anchor="C,C" Offset="1,1" Texture="CivSymbolAtlas48.dds" Color="Black.128"/>
				<Image ID="CivIcon" Anchor="C,C" Size="32,32" Offset="0,0" Texture="CivSymbolsColor512.dds"/>
			</Box>
			<Label ID="ButtonText" Anchor="L,C" Offset="60,0" ColorSet="Beige_Black" Style="FontNormal20" FontStyle="Shadow"/>
		</GridButton>
	</Instance>
	<Box Style="BGBlock_ClearTopBar"/>
	<Grid Size="500,440" Anchor="C,C" Offset="0,0" Padding="0,20" Style="Grid9DetailFive140" Hidden="0">
		<Label Anchor="C,T" Offset="0,20" String="TXT_KEY_POP_UNITED_NATIONS_VOTE" Style="FontNormal20" ColorSet="Beige_Black" FontStyle="Shadow"/>
		<Label ID="InfoLabel" Anchor="C,T" Offset="0,50" String="TXT_KEY_POP_UNITED_NATIONS_VOTE_NOT_SELF_ALT" Style="FontNormal20" ColorSet="Beige_Black" FontStyle="Shadow"/>
		<ScrollPanel Anchor="C,T" Offset="0,70" Size="410,325" ID="ScrollPanel" Vertical="1" AutoScrollBar="1">
			<Stack Anchor="C,T" Size="256,32" StackGrowth="B" Padding="8" ID="ButtonStack"/>
			<ScrollBar Offset="-3.0" Style="VertSlider" Anchor="R,C" AnchorSide="O,I" Length="300"/>
			<UpButton Offset="-3.0" Style="ScrollBarUp" Anchor="R,T" AnchorSide="O,I"/>
			<DownButton Offset="-3.0" Style="ScrollBarDown" Anchor="R,B" AnchorSide="O,I"/>
		</ScrollPanel>
		<TextButton Offset="0,22" Anchor="C,B" Style="FontNormal14" ColorSet="Beige_Black_Alpha" String="TXT_KEY_CLOSE" ToolTip="TXT_KEY_CLOSE" FontStyle="Shadow" MouseOverStyle="SoftShadow" ConsumeMouse="1" ID="CloseButton" Hidden="0"/>
	</Grid>
</Context>

MountSuribachi2 said:
I actually like that, instead of the chore and expense of having to go through every unit and constantly upgrade them. And then to save money, you don't bother to upgrade that axeman you've got garrisoning that backwater city, whilst the rest of your army consists of riflemen and tanks.

But agree with the others about the interface, lack of character/personality etc
Click to expand...

To save money in Civ 5, you have to delete those axemen since they're a waste of unit maintenance cost.
 
The biggest problem I have right now is the AI. The weak AI was one of the biggest problems with Civ 5, and I just can't believe that in this new 40 DOLLAR release they STILL haven't made it any good.

I just, ugh.
 
I disagree, the game has plenty of life in it. Its just that the leaders develop the life during the game instead of having a huge history to read up on. Having a predetermined history more so than they have would just pigeon hole them into certain affinities even more. In SMAC Diedre always went Purity, even if that wasn't the best way strategy for the map she landed on. This game feels a lot more like "pick a play style for the map" instead of "picking a map for a given play style". I think this gives it more replay ability so that depending on the affinity stance a civ can be nice to you or not.

In Civ 5, Ghandi acts a certain way 80-90% of the time, and same for many other leaders. This makes them much more predictable and while this also gives them more character it makes them more stale or a large number of games.

I missed the demographics screen at first, but now I have gotten used to not having it or needing it. Dig down into the diplo screen and find out how much science, gold and cities they have, pretty much all you need to know. It would be nice to get an idea which virtues they have taken, perhaps that could be a low level spy mission.

The score screen tells you pretty much all you need to know, and knowing someone's "might" or "industrial base" score is pretty much "cheating". If you want to know that information, go scout their lands, send spies to their cities. It takes more digging around, but it is more realistic than pulling up the annual GDP per turn report and seeing a ranking and a graph.

Upgrading units on the fly is a welcome change. Now when I march a unit 20-80 tiles across the screen to attack someone, they won't get obsolete in that timeframe. Besides, I am paying them unit upkeep their whole life span, so I figure that the upgrade cost is factored into that amount.

There are some very nice things going on in the game that I enjoy, but there is also room for improvement, and some weird omissions from Civ 5 that I would like to see return, but I'll do a proper review later.
 
Bezurn said:
In Civ 5, Ghandi acts a certain way 80-90% of the time, and same for many other leaders. This makes them much more predictable and while this also gives them more character it makes them more stale or a large number of games.
Click to expand...
That's why there's a "Random Personalities" option in Civ 5 (and SMAC), that way, you can have your cake and eat it too. Furthermore, it not only helps adding character, it kind of helps you to "get" a nation.

Even if you never played the Aztecs before, after encountering Monty, you know what the civ is suppsed to do. That's a neat side-effect of the strong personalities.
 
Bezurn said:
In Civ 5, Ghandi acts a certain way 80-90% of the time, and same for many other leaders. This makes them much more predictable and while this also gives them more character it makes them more stale or a large number of games.
Click to expand...

It's a good time to revisit what Shafer himself told us about the flaws in the AI personality and diplomacy system he helped design, that has been unleashed on us in unimproved form again after all this time:

My original goal was for the [CiV] AI leaders to act human. But humans are ambiguous, moody and sometimes just plain crazy. This can be interesting when you're dealing with actual, real humans, but I learned the important lesson that when you're simulating one with a computer there's no way to make this fun. Any attempt to do so just turns into random, unproductive noise.

I came to realize that while diplomacy is a unique challenge, it's ultimately still just a gameplay system just like any other. Regardless of whether your enjoyment is derived from roleplaying or simply a game's core mechanics, if your opponents' goals and behavior aren't clear then you'll have absolutely no idea what’s going on or what to do.

In Civ 5, you might have been lifelong allies with a leader, but once you enter the late-game he has no qualms backstabbing you in order to win. With this being the case, what's the point of investing in relationships at all?

By no means should AI leaders be completely predictable. However, they do need a clear rhyme and reason behind their actions. The computer opponents in Civ 5 were completely enslaved to their gameplay situation, and as a result they appeared random and very little of their personalities shone through.

They were all crazy, and in the exact same way. In the months after the game was released I modified their behavior to be more predictable, but it was too late to completely change course. The biggest takeaway from this is that the only thing which matters in a game is the experience inside the player's head.
Click to expand...

AI's should have static personalities. They can be aggressive and adversarial if it's clear that is their personality, not just some RNG's judgement of your actions.

Another problem with my AI was the randomness, which is something I've already talked about at length. The computer opponents were weighted towards a variety of possibilities, with a healthy serving of RNG (random number generator) on the side. This meant they floated from one "strategy" to another without any real cohesion behind those decisions. This approach is nice in theory, but if you want a strong AI there are times when you need to force it to behave in very specific manner.
Click to expand...

An AI whose strategy and goals are completely open isn't a more engaging opponent, just a more frustrating one.

There was no real way for Firaxis to think that retaining the CiV AI personality and diplomacy system would lead to a "good" player experience - CiV proved very thoroughly that it leads to bad player experience. They just didn't care to revamp it.
 
At least in India this is not $50! I got a physical DVD and steam key for Rs999 which is roughly $16... At that price it's not too bad, but it still feels like a half-baked XP...
 
Vladesch said:
For those who think it's not worth $50...
Price on steam in Australia is $89.99USD, or $102.35 local dollars

2K always hit us with the Australia tax.
Click to expand...

*Ow* My sympathies. That's a horrendous rip off. :sad:
 
hthite said:
At least in India this is not $50! I got a physical DVD and steam key for Rs999 which is roughly $16... At that price it's not too bad, but it still feels like a half-baked XP...
Click to expand...

If this game was $10 here in Canada, I might start to consider buying it.

As far as your impression of the game, I agree about it being a half baked XP.

Oh and welcome to the forums. :hatsoff:
 
So, anybody want to write up a mod that replaces as much of the technology flavor texts as possible with good SMAC quotes or maybe come up with some good ones for the faction leaders? If I had access to the files, I'd do it myself, but \('-')/
 
Thormodr said:
If this game was $10 here in Canada, I might start to consider buying it.

As far as your impression of the game, I agree about it being a half baked XP.

Oh and welcome to the forums. :hatsoff:
Click to expand...

So you rate the game a 1 and consider buying it at all ? Interesting.

And by interesting I mean nonsensical.
 
GhostSalsa said:
It's a good time to revisit what Shafer himself told us about the flaws in the AI personality and diplomacy system he helped design, that has been unleashed on us in unimproved form again after all this time:



AI's should have static personalities. They can be aggressive and adversarial if it's clear that is their personality, not just some RNG's judgement of your actions.



An AI whose strategy and goals are completely open isn't a more engaging opponent, just a more frustrating one.

There was no real way for Firaxis to think that retaining the CiV AI personality and diplomacy system would lead to a "good" player experience - CiV proved very thoroughly that it leads to bad player experience. They just didn't care to revamp it.
Click to expand...

Yep. Jon Shafer's ideas bombed big time. :sad:

Soren Johnson knows how to make the AI enjoyable and how to make the game immersive:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=377317
 
Teproc said:
So you rate the game a 1 and consider buying it at all ? Interesting.

And by interesting I mean nonsensical.
Click to expand...

Even though the game is very, very poor; I do want the game to do well so that a Civ VI gets made. So I do have a conundrum on my hands.

I've been playing Civ since 1992 and this is the first Civ game that I haven't bought as soon as possible.

Anyway, I said I would start to consider buying it. ;)

$5 and you'd really get me thinking.

$3 or less and it's an autobuy. :D
 
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