this is my thoughts on techs

[daladinn]

ok ,

as suggested by keal i am going ahead and making a long long list of suggestions. how easy all of this is to code i have no idea , but i am trying to work within what i can see as existing mechanics.

the tech tree...

- crafting
--- masonry
------ construction
--------- sanitation
------------ medicine (req education)
--------- warfare (req education)
------------ military strategy (req philosophy)
--------- engineering (req mathmatics)
------------ blasting powder (req iron working)
------------ machinery (req iron working)
---mining
------ bronze working
--------- smelting
------------ iron working
--------------- mithril working
------------------ divine essence
------------------ mithril weapons
--- enlistment
------ support (req construction)
--------- training (req sanitation)

 

[daladinn]

unit listings

tier 2 ( tech requirement of enlistment)

axemen , kept as a str 4 unit , move 1 , 40 hammer
archer , kept as a str 3/5 unit , move 1 , 40 hammer (removing the terrain bonus)

tier 3 (tech requirement of support)

champion , kept as a str 6 unit , move 1 , 80 hammer
longbowmen, changed to a str 5/7 unit from a 5/6 , move 1 , 80 hammer (removed terrain bonus)
crossbowmen, changed to str 6 , move 1 , 60 hammer (no terrain bunus)(needs tech engineering)

 

[daladinn]

promotion listings

missle defense - +25% forest and +25 hill defense ##logic here is the free promo from range##
covering fire - +20% defense to units in adjacent tiles ##flagbearer mechanic##
city garrison 1 - req warfare tech
city garrison 2 - req military strategy tech
city garrison 3 - req machinery tech
city raider 1 - req warfare tech
city raider 2 - req military strategy tech
city raider 3 - req blasting powder tech
bronze weapons - str +1 (upgrade available for 10g if the city has a smithy and copper)
bronze arrowhead - str +0/+2 (same as above)
iron weapons - str +2 ( upgrade available for 20g if the city has a smithy and iron)
iron arrowheads - str +1/+3 (same as above)
mithril weapons - str +4 ( upgrade available for 40g if the city has a machinist shop and mithril)
mithril arrowheads - str +2/+6 (same as above)

 

[daladinn]

building listings

tier 2 (tech requirement enlistment)

training yard - +10% production for melee units
archery range - free promotion for archery units

tier 3 (tech requirement support)

weaponsmith - +10% production for melee units
bowyer - free covering fire promotion for archery units

 

[daladinn]

metal changes

metal promotions are no longer given for free on building a unit.

 

[daladinn]

improvements,

lumber mill - adding +1 gold with mithril working
workshop - adding +1 gold with mithril working

## both of these needed a small boost and the tech is kinda light atm , looked like a good spot##

forts and such - need to be flagged for city garrison and city raider to apply

 

[rocklikeafool]

I don't think that any terrain bonuses should be removed, specially on archers. Think bout it, which allows more range? Flat grassland or a hill? A hill obviously. So, therefore, which gives a better defensive bonus? A hill cuz it allows you to fire away from a longer distance.
I do think that metal promotions should require a small fee, like 50gold. It should act like unit upgrades. In that, if you can upgrade, you can hit alt and the upgrade button and it upgrades all units (or all the units you have the gold for).

 

[Ekolite]

I quite like an idea I heard about moving the lumbermill / windmill etc onto the archery line. Making it a ''Woodworking'' line. I see it as something like this:

Ranged Weapons: Allows archers / city defense I (requires crafting)

Land Clearing: Allows lumbermill, remove forest, will have a slower then usual rate, (requires mining + ranged wepons, you need to dig up something to hack the trees with )

Advanced Woodworking: forest tiles +1 commerce, city defense 2, (requires land clearing)

Bowyers: Alow longbows bowyer building (requires Advanced wood working),

Machinary: Allows crossbows, Watermill + mill improvement (requires advanced woodworking or iron working maybe?)

Make crossbows need bowyer building though so that someone that gets machinary through the melee line can't get them. Make crossbows and longbows pretty balanced and on the same tier but with different uses. Make crossbows more for attacking then defending. Forest cutting could be increased in speed by the BW tech though.

Something like this would seriously help the archery line and remove the necessity of bronze working and the melee line.

 

[Grand Seeker]

I kind of like the covering fire promotions. It would realy make archery useable for defensive purposes on ofensive raids Only drawback is that archer gives just as good a bonus as a longbowman ... Could a stronger verson of covering fire be available to crossbowman/longbowman?

On the "missile defence" 'free promotion' from archery range... Why not choose city garrasson in stead? Or a basic combat promotion which gives you +20% in all cases? The missile defence promotion would be very little used, cuz either you spesilize using forrester or gerrillia or city garrason, or you dont and choose basic combat.

I like the new feel about crossbowmen versus longbowmen.

I like the ide of weapon promotions not being automatic, but cust some gold.
But what about the mounted units? Could one have upgrades which is not linked to metal? Mount upgrades?

 

[Pyr0mancer]

But what about the mounted units? Could one have upgrades which is not linked to metal? Mount upgrades?

I was under the impression that Nightmares currently give a bonus to mounted units, but not sure on that. Any other bonuses would have to be tech-linked, since quite frankly there's enough resources without adding more. Warhorses springs to mind as a good bonus source flavor-wise.

 

[Cadaveres]

I will just say that I really like all these

 

[daladinn]

let me clarify so you guys understand what i was thinking...

on the taking away the archer forest and hill bonus , what i did was combine it into a promo and then give a free promo to the archers via the archery range. this allows you to make the choice of city defense or field defense for your archers. the free promo also does not effect the xp levels or anything.

as for the covering fire promotion. it does NOT give the archer a +20% .... the flagbearer unit which i was referring to gives a bonus to all friendly units in SURROUNDING tiles. so if you had an archer in a city and an axemen just outside , the axemen would get the 20% bonus.

the biggest thing you will notice is that i sorted the units out away from the industry and such.

as for waht i was thinking of crosboowmen ...
crossbowmen were the cheaper and more effective unit to field compared to longbowmen , they required ALOT less training time (hence the lower cost). however, they required a higher tech base to make the items (hence you need both the support tech and the engineering tech). and if you want any of your archers to be more offensive then defensive , just use your free promotion for either combat or drill promotions

 

[daladinn]

ohh ya missed it first time through,

as far as teh metal upgrades, i was looking for a way to raise the cost of a troop with a metal upgrade as opposed to a troop with no upgrade. the reasoning is so that warriors with copper (40 hammer str 4) were not so readily competing with axemen without copper (80 hammer str 4). basically in the case of 2 oppenents , 1 who has copper and 1 without , the one with copper can field equivelent units for half the cost.

moving the promo out of the auto-upgrade and into where you have to pay gold for it solved the problem of raising the cost (and it does not need to effect all units) as well as placing it into the arena of the economy.

 

[rocklikeafool]

So, you're not sayin get rid of the archer bonuses. You jus wanna make them promos to allow more choices. That's a great idea.
I really like the idea of makin the player (and AI) pay a lil for the metal upgrades. I think the AI could handle it at the level it is in v .032 now. But it might not be able to. However, that jus requires a lil more upgradin of the AI. Maybe like 5 lines of words translated into code (or however you wanna think bout it/word it). So, I think it's doable.

 

[westamastaflash]

I wouldn't mind a fee for the metal upgrades. Perhaps it could be turned into a one-time per unit use of a spell (equip with bronze weapons) and (equip with iron weapons).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I wouldn't mind a fee for the metal upgrades. Perhaps it could be turned into a one-time per unit use of a spell (equip with bronze weapons) and (equip with iron weapons).

Yeah, I was planning on doing it like that in my version, but I am concerned that the AI might not equip its units very well.

 

[Kasdar]

I quite like an idea I heard about moving the lumbermill / windmill etc onto the archery line. Making it a ''Woodworking'' line. I see it as something like this:

Ranged Weapons: Allows archers / city defense I (requires crafting)

Land Clearing: Allows lumbermill, remove forest, will have a slower then usual rate, (requires mining + ranged wepons, you need to dig up something to hack the trees with )

Advanced Woodworking: forest tiles +1 commerce, city defense 2, (requires land clearing)

Bowyers: Alow longbows bowyer building (requires Advanced wood working),

Machinary: Allows crossbows, Watermill + mill improvement (requires advanced woodworking or iron working maybe?)

Make crossbows need bowyer building though so that someone that gets machinary through the melee line can't get them. Make crossbows and longbows pretty balanced and on the same tier but with different uses. Make crossbows more for attacking then defending. Forest cutting could be increased in speed by the BW tech though.

Something like this would seriously help the archery line and remove the necessity of bronze working and the melee line.

I rather like this also, it would also be nice like mentioned elsewhere to have an archer unit like 2/4 available at the beginning of the game.

 

[rocklikeafool]

There's the 3/5 Archer with archery. But it doesn't really make sense to have archers before you discover archery, not even if you're an archery-oriented civ like the Ljosafar.

 

[Kasdar]

There's the 3/5 Archer with archery. But it doesn't really make sense to have archers before you discover archery, not even if you're an archery-oriented civ like the Ljosafar.

Well the idea was for a defender at the beginning --- could be a spear thrower or a slingshot guy.

 

[Pyr0mancer]

Well the idea was for a defender at the beginning --- could be a spear thrower or a slingshot guy.

You know, you could just use warriors. That +25% city defense isn't just for show you know.

Spear thrower... you mean Javelin thrower. *looks at Doviello*

Slingshots are pretty useless weapons, and aren't worth the trouble of making them. Just plain slings are cheaper and more effective. *looks at Dwarves*