Thoughts on Diablo III?

[MobBoss]

Simply by the fact that you claim ignorance of Robert A. Kotick even though you claim to have been gaming for 20 years.

Dude....I'm a gamer....not a study of industry figureheads.

And yeah, i've been gaming since the Apple II/Commodore 64/TRS-80 days. Its not a claim, its a fact.

It's called a track record. You seem to be relying on Blizzard's.

Its a pretty good track record to reply upon.

Unfortunately, that isn't relevant anymore. It'll be Activision's track record for destroying games that is relevant now sadly.

Pertinent parts highlighted. The thing you fear hasnt even come to pass yet. And if it does, guess what? I'll buy other games instead of theirs. But UNTIL it actually happens, I'm not going to write them off in ADVANCE simply because some non-fanboi types up a rant on the net about his frustrated perception of whats going on.

See, I'm the opposite as most in this thread. I honestly am not too concerned over the RMAH, I can ignore it pretty easily. It's the actual gameplay changes that have me questioning whether to purchase it.

Amen brother.

I just want to reiterate that I am ambivalent about the real-money auction house, as I have said multiple times before. I don't know why I"m debating with you. I do think it's a lazy and opportunistic move. But I can't blame corporations for doing it if people are actually going to participate in it. It's the people who do participate in large money exchanges for virtual goods that make me despair. I am not one to blame free business for taking advantage of opportunities I think. But I *am* one to judge western society for deciding to spend money on things like this. On this note:

Why do you think this only occurs in western society?

If anything, South Koreans and other eastern influenced societies are far more rabid about this and far more willing to spend big bucks to get an advantage.

I am not. But I *will* want to smack people who spend 100$ on in-game swords.

Why do you care what they spend their money on regardless?

They need to go to Somalia for a reality check and if they didn't exist we wouldn't be here debating that.

By that logic no one should spend extra cash on something as trivial as 'video games'.

So no, I'm not the arbiter of society. But I am the arbiter of my own soul, and that is how it categorizes people in this matter.

Not sure what your soul has to do with categorizing others...

All said and done, in terms of gameplay, I think it won't affect the game much for me, and I may give it a try and see how it goes. On the other hand, if prices go overboard and a wide selection of the most interesting items are out of reach of people who aren't willing to commonly spend 10-20$ many times, I'll be disappointed. Hopefully we'd all get a decent chance at getting these items as random drops, and if that's the case, item prices will not be super high. i.e., the real money system would only be there if I am ready to spend 2$ to get an item I would have to spend 10 hours grinding to get.

I'm sure the rules of supply and demand will affect this AH just like they do in any other game.

 

[Thormodr]

But UNTIL it actually happens, I'm not going to write them off in ADVANCE simply because some non-fanboi types up a rant on the net about his frustrated perception of whats going on.

Not frustrated at all. Quite happy to stand up for my principles and not support a company that screws over gamers and game companies.

It takes awhile to kill a company, even with Activision's expertise at doing so.

It won't happen overnight in the case of Blizzard but the poison is already in the system.

 

[MobBoss]

Not frustrated at all. Quite happy to stand up for my principles and not support a company that screws over gamers and game companies.

It takes awhile to kill a company, even with Activision's expertise at doing so.

It won't happen overnight in the case of Blizzard but the poison is already in the system.

Except they havent 'screwed over gamers'......yet.

As Princescamp already pointed out, activision hasnt really had any involvement in Blizzards game development, so I even question your claim of 'poison' to be honest.

Again, we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm more than willing to come back here and admit you were right if D3 does indeed suck. Are you more than willing to come back and admit you were wrong if its a hit?

 

[Rub'Rum]

Why do you think this only occurs in western society?

I shouldn't have put the word "western" in there.

Why do you care what they spend their money on regardless?

Because their actions change the game series I have been playing for 10 years in a way that I would rather not see happening. They are free to agree with the auction house and root for what they want the game to be. I am free to root for what *I* want the game to be too. Which clashes with theirs.

By that logic no one should spend extra cash on something as trivial as 'video games'.

I knew you'd say that. I'm sure even Somalians have hobbies. I'm not gonna tell people to not spend money on hobbies. But there was a time when a game came out, you bought for 40$. Then you bought maybe an expansion or two, and they had a lot of content, and stuff. Nowadays, people accept to pay more and more, for less and less content. At some point you have to question what you're doing and draw a line. Buying in-game advantages for ridiculous amounts of money reproduces real life patterns in the imaginary world of gaming that are just the ugly side of humans. I have to deal with this every day, I don't need it in my escapism.

Not sure what your soul has to do with categorizing others...

I was just saying, let me be free to judge people's actions the way I want, according to my set of values. Nobody cares the way I judge them anyway. It's okay to argue with me that the auction house system is the best thing in the world. It's something else to tell me my actual personal values are wrong when I disagree.

 

[MobBoss]

I knew you'd say that. I'm sure even Somalians have hobbies.

Only if you consider 'hunting for food in order to not starve' as a hobby.

I'm not gonna tell people to not spend money on hobbies. But there was a time when a game came out, you bought for 40$. Then you bought maybe an expansion or two, and they had a lot of content, and stuff. Nowadays, people accept to pay more and more, for less and less content.

I would say that depends on the individual game, and I dont think its a fair generic comment. Quality games are still valued and recognized for their quality.

At some point you have to question what you're doing and draw a line. Buying in-game advantages for ridiculous amounts of money reproduces real life patterns in the imaginary world of gaming that are just the ugly side of humans. I have to deal with this every day, I don't need it in my escapism.

Except its been pointed out that this doesnt really affect your particular enjoyment of the game at all. You can play D3 to your hearts content, and totally ignore the AH, never buying or selling an item. In fact, thats probably exactly how I will play it.

It only really affects your 'escapism' if you allow it to.

I was just saying, let me be free to judge people's actions the way I want, according to my set of values.

My point is why judge a thing that you are powerless to affect? Isnt life to short to be spent over fretting over what others do with their money?

Nobody cares the way I judge them anyway.

Precisely.

It's okay to argue with me that the auction house system is the best thing in the world. It's something else to tell me my actual personal values are wrong when I disagree.

I never said your 'values' were wrong. I simply said that the feeling that the AH is going to somehow ruin your experience of the game is false, and a merely a symptom of your choice to judge others. You dont have to make that choice.

 

[Akka]

Blizzard itself (WoW mostly) is the largest single source of income for Activision-Blizzard and Kotick doesn't seem to have any real influence on Blizzard's game development (otherwise I am sure WoW would have a store selling gold and items which would deal a major blow to the gold farming industry).

The abrupt "casual crap" changes in WoW and the sudden "let's force Battle.net 2.0 down the throat of everyone" ideas and the revolting DRM schemes of all their new games seem to disagree.

Except they havent 'screwed over gamers'......yet.

Man, you're completely deluded :-/
They are already ruining their integrity just to milk for cash. That's already a sign of giving the middle finger to gamers and saying "f... you suckers, we just want the money".

 

[MobBoss]

Man, you're completely deluded :-/
They are already ruining their integrity just to milk for cash. That's already a sign of giving the middle finger to gamers and saying "f... you suckers, we just want the money".

First of all, the games not released yet, so the word 'already' is simply false on its face.

Secondly, it simply brings to the forefront an issue thats already prevalent industry wide. If blizz didnt do it this way it would still be done regardless on the side. We both know that to be true.

That being the case, and also the simple fact that if you dont like it, then dont participate in it and it wont hurt your experience one whit.....how on EARTH can this be interpreted as you do here? i.e. 'F...you suckers....' etc. etc.

Really, how can I take such a comment seriously, since its totally devoid of any real meaning in the face of what is being discussed and the facts presented as they have been? This simply isnt what you portray it to be. At all.

 

[Sadan01]

Did anyone here play Everquest 2? (That's an MMO, similar to WoW.) Back in the day, Sony Online did the same kind of thing that Blizzard is doing here, but on a limited scale; they launched a couple of "Exchange" servers where items and gold could be bought and sold for real-world currency. In that regard it was at least an opt-in (because you had to transfer to or start characters one of those Exchange servers), but I don't like that the RMAH is always on for everyone and there's no opting out. The RMAH will exist whether you use it or not; people will be fighting for loot drops they can't even use because those drops can easily sold for real-world currency. I'm waiting to see how the drops are allocated (NBG rolls or what?) before I pass judgement, but this news definitely dampens my enthusiasm.

First - EQ2 was far better than WoW back around 2004-2006. Most will disagree but WoW is/always was/always will be for n00bs that couldn't hack a real challenge where an MMO like EQ2 actually made you think to do something (DAoC was similar in this regard as well). The only problem with EQ2 (besides the usual bugs), like every MMO published by this particular publisher, was SOE. SOE had some great IP - but they destroy it with trying to reinvent the wheel every 6-12 months. LU13 was the start of the end for EQ2 (combat revamp) and it practically got worse from there with Smedley declaring that he wanted his games to be like WoW. Making everything cookie-cutter and similar to everything else really doesn't give you respect any longer. Look at Hollywood.

I cannot wait for all those to post in disagree'ance of my points about the MMOs in question. Go for your life!

Second - Comparing SOE's old-school exchange servers of EQ2 to Diablo III isn't a comparison. Different genre's - one an MMO and the other some kind of weird hack 'n slash wannabe RPG game hybrid. You cannot compare unless you start talking about Korean games where this kind of model is accepted as par for the course. I remember the SOE Exchange servers well - the VAST, VAST majority played on non-exchange servers. They weren't popular. However, considering that Diablo is one of the biggest selling franchises ever, I don't doubt that it will still be popular. For anyone looking to buy Diablo III in Australia, simply do not. Go to ozgameshop.com and purchase it from there. It will most likely be in the range of $30-50 upon release whereas in our great rip-off nation, it will be $90-120.

Third - I agree with the rest of your post completely. My enthusiasm for Diablo III is practically gone. Activision's "evil" practices are clearly there with Blizzard as well. Blizzard is no longer the company is associate with fair, customer-focused gaming.

 

[MajKira]

at one side money rules the marketeconomy world and exploitation was always best way to make most already in Ancient times but on the other side of same medal if you dont make enough money you loose and company goes bankrupt

but in case of Blizzard, Square Enix or Electronic Arts, well these big cooperations have enough money already like Sony too

They could employ more consumer friendly talented workers but in the end you can never satisfy all people and every taste and if you would not sell your product at accurate price the production cost would be higher than what you get out of it
no profit is no brand name and reputation

well in the end you can never wage it evenly out among any kind of people
there will always be people who have it better than others who will loose and get poor

if world would be good for anybody it would be a Utopia or paradise Eden you will never have among humans

 

[Thormodr]

Real ID for Battlenet 2.0.

I wonder whose brilliant idea that was?

It was either Blizzard's or slimeball Kotick's.

Why worry though, right?

It's not like they are going to try again or anything...

 

[Rub'Rum]

Only if you consider 'hunting for food in order to not starve' as a hobby.

Hehe, well I'm sure they have something! Even if it's just throwing rocks around, I wouldn't blame them for not spending exactly 100% of their waking hours on survival. I'm sure it's probably 95% but still.

Except its been pointed out that this doesnt really affect your particular enjoyment of the game at all. You can play D3 to your hearts content, and totally ignore the AH, never buying or selling an item. In fact, thats probably exactly how I will play it.

I never said your 'values' were wrong. I simply said that the feeling that the AH is going to somehow ruin your experience of the game is false, and a merely a symptom of your choice to judge others. You dont have to make that choice.

It only really affects your 'escapism' if you allow it to.

I do let it affect my game, and yes it is kind of a choice, because I believe in something, and no life isn't too short to uphold my values. I've been doing it with DLC since the concept appeared. I have chosen to ignore its existence on 95% of the games I own, I only bought it for a handful of games I support, and even then, at highly reduced prices.

My other option is to just not play Diablo 3 if it doesn't fit in my description of a game. Which brings us back to me disagreeing with the ultra-pro RMAH people; this point of view, the acceptance of a system that may break the fun of the game for me, may make me give up my favorite game series of all times (ahead of Civilization I have to admit), depending on what the end result looks like once implemented. Which is a good reason enough, for an avid gamer like me, to be outspoken about the things that I don't like in the concept.

But like you said earlier, I don't agree with the people who won't even give the game a chance. There is still a way to support the game by buying it, but protest your disagreement by not participating in the auction house. I do think Blizzard is one of the top gaming companies out there and I am actually sort of curious to see what they will do and how things will settle.

 

[MobBoss]

Who here is 'ultra-pro' RMAH?

My only point about it is I dont see it ruining the game to the extent its being cried about. I mean dear lord, you think it was the start of the apocalypse or something the way some are carrying on about it.

I maintain my point that the RMAH only 'breaks' the fun for you if you actually let it to that. You still have a choice to not be affected by it at all. But we are in agreement about those just writing it off so early. My friends and I are actually quite excited about its release.

 

[Thormodr]

Who here is 'ultra-pro' RMAH?

My only point about it is I dont see it ruining the game to the extent its being cried about. I mean dear lord, you think it was the start of the apocalypse or something the way some are carrying on about it.

I maintain my point that the RMAH only 'breaks' the fun for you if you actually let it to that. You still have a choice to not be affected by it at all. But we are in agreement about those just writing it off so early. My friends and I are actually quite excited about its release.

How would you feel about paying a monthly subscription for Diablo III?

 

[MobBoss]

How would you feel about paying a monthly subscription for Diablo III?

I wouldnt mind paying a sub fee if I found the game entertaining enough. I've subscribed, off and on, to a staggering number of games over the years, so such a fee doesnt scare me in the least, but the game has to be fun and interesting or else I just move on to something else.

But I dont think D3 fits into that particular MMO model.

 

[Thormodr]

I wouldnt mind paying a sub fee if I found the game entertaining enough. I've subscribed, off and on, to a staggering number of games over the years, so such a fee doesnt scare me in the least, but the game has to be fun and interesting or else I just move on to something else.

But I dont think D3 fits into that particular MMO model.

Does Call of Duty fit that model then?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Saw this on penny arcade.

They do have a point still there's always the possibility of technical difficulties on Blizzard's or my ISP's side that would keep me from playing.
It's not a definite reason to not buy the game, but it's one fo several contributing factors.

 

[Thormodr]

Saw this on penny arcade.

They do have a point still there's always the possibility of technical difficulties on Blizzard's or my ISP's side that would keep me from playing.
It's not a definite reason to not buy the game, but it's one fo several contributing factors.

Posted before but it still raises an important point. Certainly there are a lot of people that will rage about all the questionable decisions that are being made but then meekly buy the game anyway. Pretty pathetic.

 

[MobBoss]

Does Call of Duty fit that model then?

Not really in my opinion. Wasnt there some offer by the CoD guys to come up with some stat tracker/ladder/matchmaker thing that would involve a month fee to opt in to?

Is that what you are referring to?

As I recall, that was opt in only, and you could still enjoy the game the same exact way you always did if you didnt want to particpate in that.

At this point your talking about something more than just a sub fee for a game that you cant avoid. In essence, that sort of thing is paying to join a league, and you pay a premium to play against other 'serious' players, have your stats tracked, and supposedly earn rewards if you do well in tournements and competitions.

To me, that sort of thing moves the entire experience out of the casual arena and into the direct competitive arena....which admittedly you have to spend bucks to prove your epeen at that level.

I dont see a problem with people doing that if they want to. I'm good at FPS games, but i'm content with merely being 'good', and have no desire to put in the time/cash to move me up into the 'great' column. But I dont begrudge those that are willing to do that if they want to.

 

[SuperJay]

See, I'm the opposite as most in this thread. I honestly am not too concerned over the RMAH, I can ignore it pretty easily. It's the actual gameplay changes that have me questioning whether to purchase it.

What gameplay changes are those? I haven't been keeping up on all the updates, so maybe there's something I'm going to be less-than-thrilled about as well.

First - EQ2 was far better than WoW back around 2004-2006.

Sure, whatever floats your boat. I wasn't comparing the games in terms of quality, I just added that comment as a quick explanation of what Everquest 2 was / is for those who weren't familiar with it, for the sake of context.

Second - Comparing SOE's old-school exchange servers of EQ2 to Diablo III isn't a comparison. Different genre's - one an MMO and the other some kind of weird hack 'n slash wannabe RPG game hybrid.

Again, you're inserting a comparison that I didn't make. The example of of Exchange servers in EQ2 was simply illustrating another "if you can't beat em, join em" situation regarding publishers legitimizing gold and item selling.

 

[MobBoss]

Re: The EQ2 vs WoW debate. I played both, first EQ2 and then WoW. Both games had/have significant pros/cons to them. Long story short, my friends and I ended up leaving EQ2 to play WoW simply because playng WoW was much more fun. Although my ratman assassin named 'Eshin' was one of my fav MMO toons ever.