Thoughts on REX+ICS

RE: Freedom. I saw it's power last night during my game. I waited waaaaay too long to unlock it. I do have a question: is using specialist optimal in most cases over working a hex? I guess this is true especially if you have a couple of maritime CS feeding or you don't need the production.

Also as a side bar question, how many of you use the governor during an ICS? Do you set the governor to "emphasize gold" or "emphasize science"? Or simply leave at default or manually adjust the workforce?
 
RE: Freedom. I saw it's power last night during my game. I waited waaaaay too long to unlock it. I do have a question: is using specialist optimal in most cases over working a hex? I guess this is true especially if you have a couple of maritime CS feeding or you don't need the production.

Also as a side bar question, how many of you use the governor during an ICS? Do you set the governor to "emphasize gold" or "emphasize science"? Or simply leave at default or manually adjust the workforce?
I always emphasize production
 
I was thinking that maybe you could build the first 4 or 5 cities, pump out a bunch of combatants and settlers. Position the new settlers, then gift all the first cities, build the new cities and gift/sell them to whatever AI you want to take out first. Then immediately take those cities, turning them into puppets as a means of keeping the SP costs down, while having the cities where you want them. However, if the SP costs don't hold at the level they are with the first batch of cities or if the AI razes them, then this won't work.

I think I'll test this in a small game to see if it works.
 
i didnt know how to do ICS until this post :D thanks. anyway, i was trying out with france(easy since with the +2 culture, it is easy to hit the 3rd policy early). 2 civ dow me around turn 80 =/ i had like 10+ city but my science is only 29. where did i go wrong ? GPT 33. my capital have a high prod of 10 with 4 citizen.
i have 2 horseman and a couple of warrior. is it too much ? should i continue to settle ?

i am kind of new to ICS, so please enlighten me :D
 
Also as a side bar question, how many of you use the governor during an ICS? Do you set the governor to "emphasize gold" or "emphasize science"? Or simply leave at default or manually adjust the workforce?

Before turn 40, it doesn't matter. When building a settler, food=production, and there aren't many improved tiles to work. The governor doesn't have enough available options to make a mistake.

I usually hit the Classical era with Construction around turn 45-50, depending on the ruins I got. When I start researching Construction, I go through all my cities manually to assess what is going on. If one of them is, for some reason, not building a settler, I'll try to arrange the tiles so it has enough food to grow right when I finish Construction.

Any workers at this point have solely been on luxury and road detail...haven't had enough spare actions to build any regular tile improvements. I do try to build roads through riverside hill tiles when feasible...farming those is the next priority.

When Colosseums are going up, I emphasize Production. The key to REX+ICS is using your limited happiness on working city tiles instead of the less productive regular tiles. The Production-emphasis Governor does a pretty good job of picking the right tiles when the city is small.

Once I am researching Currency and pushing towards Banking, I do another reassess. One or two of my cities will become gold-specialized. In a recent game, I had one early city that happened to have 4 gold/silver mines in its third ring. Early on, I focused my settling around that city to claim that land. Once the Mint was available, I built one and locked those tiles for that city. Market and Bank were next. After that, it was a size-4 settler pump.

A windfall like that made gold-speccing a city early extremely valuable, but it's still worthwhile to do that with tradeposts. Just remember about the overlap...you don't need to put those tile improvements right next to the spec'd city. Build them and lock them and let them run.

The third time I do a full city revaluation is when I'm running out of expansion room and need to start thinking about vertical growth. Before this, I've been focusing on river-farms with the workers. This speeds settler production and gets me ready for going vertical. At this point I generally put everything on Food focus to get my science skyrocketing.
 
Not quite true as the liberty bonus only affects production, not food.

I find you have to go through your cities a bit more often when the game gets later in order to remove those guys working tiles which only yield two food and eat into your happiness expansion account.
 
Not quite true as the liberty bonus only affects production, not food.

Argh...thanks for the reminder. I had noticed that in the first week, but it totally slipped my mind.

Could explain why I've had some weak starts lately.
 
Something I noticed in my last game is that 3 cities had improved horses in their range, however it only let me build the circus in one of them (Rome).
I tried assigning the tile to the other cities but it still didn't let me build any circi (just to piss the anti-latin people off :p ); which I always assumed would work.
Sure, it's slightly unfair but per theorectically this should work as all 3 cities have an improved source of horses.
 
Something I noticed in my last game is that 3 cities had improved horses in their range, however it only let me build the circus in one of them (Rome).
I tried assigning the tile to the other cities but it still didn't let me build any circi (just to piss the anti-latin people off :p ); which I always assumed would work.
Sure, it's slightly unfair but per theorectically this should work as all 3 cities have an improved source of horses.

Same issue with Mint. My current hypothesis is that only the first city settled near a resource can build the mint/circus/etc
 
I've been able to build a circus in 2 cities that are equal distance to horses (at range 2).
Obviously, that's not ideal for an ICS grid, but it seems to me that those buildings get unlocked for the closest city (and multiple cities if they're tied for closest).
 
Thanks to Alpaca and Paeanblack's detailed write-ups I played a King ICS game as Germany (hey, random leaders is a long-standing tradition with me). What a blast compared to the previous games I'd played - unbelievable science, gold, and land control. I'm closing in on 1700 with modern armor, jet fighters, and stealth bombers - LOL. Sub-optimal, sure, but Gandhi is my closest competitor, and he's rocking knights and pikemen.

Incidentally, Gandhi's profile must be highly optimized for the current AI. Every game I play he seems to have a sprawling empire.

Anyhow...

I find that there's a boom-bust cycle to my ICS games. Expand, take out a neighbor, consolidate. I am not a fan of razing cities for irrational reasons, so need time to let the courthouses complete, get the workers in to optimize the roads and tiles, let my army heal and purchase whatever I think I'll need for the next opponent, etc.

It's a cool feeling to have several courthouses/colloseums/circuses complete in about 10 turns, with 3 or 4 more settlers in the chute. There's always somewhere to put them!

When you hit the later eras, with sufficient maritime food, you can drop a city ANYWHERE. I settled a largish desert with three cities - nothing out there but desert sheep (?) and the Barringer crater. That is, until it filled with aluminum and oil, and I suspect uranium is soon to come.

TLDR - sometimes nothing's gone off the rails, there's just a 10-15 turn consolidation period in order to build roads and happiness.
 
Didn't read the whole thread, but just wanted to mention that REX/ICS and war go hand in hand - successful war makes more land available to settle safely, and nets more luxuries, which allows more settling/war which expands the empire. And it's very profitable, with all the trade routes.

One thing I'm wondering about French ICS - is it more valuable to go for another happiness policy after Meritocracy to continue the ICS goodness, or should future policies be saved for the Order branch? My science is suffering a bit due to unhappiness capping my cities, and something like Theocracy might help, but that would preclude Order completely. I don't have large enough cities to run specialists, so Freedom is out too. Forbidden Palace is no guarantee on Deity, but I'm trying - if I complete it, happiness shouldn't be an issue until Order which would give me a huge boost.
 
I am working on adapting this strategy to Egypt due to the synergy between Burial Tombs and ICS.

I must say, on Deity, ICS is pretty tough due to constant DOW's. I am able to expand but not at anything close to the rate I am reading about here. If I were to spam settlers I would get overwhelmed by the 2+ AI's I am constantly at war with.

The strategy seems to be quite strong though, in my several test games, getting to 4 cities quickly causes some AI anxiety but is so strong compared to a slower approach that the "deity start" that involves fending off AI's with armies 3x your size by turn 50 on epic actually feels much much easier than it used to.

I will work on the strategy more because I feel, though I am winning, the game I am finishing up got too bogged down by war to be representative of a good REX+ICE.

I am most surprised by the amount of gold this system makes ... by around 200BC I was at 150gpt without being in a golden age and it just keeps going up!
 
When you hit the later eras, with sufficient maritime food, you can drop a city ANYWHERE. I settled a largish desert with three cities - nothing out there but desert sheep (?)

In my last game I encountered Desert Wheat. Que?... (no, not Desert, Flood Plains, Wheat; just Desert/Wheat)
 
So my question for you guys is this.

What's better:
Version 1: Warrior/Horsemen rush some puppets while slingshotting up to acoustics, nailing meritocracy, freedom, and secularism as per
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=392900

THEN going crazy

Version 2: Tech for need of the moment and spam settlers right from the moment you hit size 2?

From what I can see version 2 can never really manage getting more than meritocracy unless you're france. Is that 80 turns lead time worth the massive bonus at the end if you wait for a couple more policies?
 
I don't do pure REX in the ancient and classical eras. I try to have 10 cities by 0 through settling and war. I think it's important to eliminate your immediate neighbors very quickly.

I produce a scout, settler, warrior, then set the second city to producing settlers. I don't build monuments. My culture stinks, but cultural allies and the pyramids you'll eventually capture (early if your lucky) will get you to meritocracy and freedom. That's all you need.

By the way, now at 1750 and chewing through Gandhi. GDRs are due in 4 turns. I don't know if ICS is an exploit, but it is definitely a powerful strategy.
 
So my question for you guys is this.

What's better:
Version 1: Warrior/Horsemen rush some puppets while slingshotting up to acoustics, nailing meritocracy, freedom, and secularism as per
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=392900

THEN going crazy

Version
That game i did was aimed for a science victory and it was only on King difficulty. I doubt you would be able to pull it off in a immortal or deity game.
But for emperor or lower i believe its a better strategy for sure. You will get all the best policies and you wont really lose much expansion because you can prepare everything beforehand: Building settlers and move them to their spots, allying with maritime CSs, and so on. In the end you will quicly catch up to a REX based beginning.
 
So my question for you guys is this.

What's better:
Version 1: Warrior/Horsemen rush some puppets while slingshotting up to acoustics, nailing meritocracy, freedom, and secularism as per
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=392900

THEN going crazy

Version 2: Tech for need of the moment and spam settlers right from the moment you hit size 2?

From what I can see version 2 can never really manage getting more than meritocracy unless you're france. Is that 80 turns lead time worth the massive bonus at the end if you wait for a couple more policies?

On lower difficulties, 2. On Immortal or Deity you simply can't afford to only go for settlers without an army so you might as well stay smallish and buy a lot of cultural CS. Approach 1 is more or less what we're doing in the RB3 succession game I'd say
 
On lower difficulties, 2. On Immortal or Deity you simply can't afford to only go for settlers without an army so you might as well stay smallish and buy a lot of cultural CS. Approach 1 is more or less what we're doing in the RB3 succession game I'd say

You were suggesting an early GE for the FP in RB3....have you actually played a game where you went this route?

Sometimes the FP is a serious pain in the ass to build, especially with India's grassland starts. If the golden age timing is off, it could take my best city 20-25 turns to build. I like to pop Civil Service with my first GS, so I'd be seriously delaying that and researching workshops detours away from Banking.

...just wondering if anyone has found GE->FP to be a timesaver.
 
That game i did was aimed for a science victory and it was only on King difficulty. I doubt you would be able to pull it off in a immortal or deity game.
But for emperor or lower i believe its a better strategy for sure. You will get all the best policies and you wont really lose much expansion because you can prepare everything beforehand: Building settlers and move them to their spots, allying with maritime CSs, and so on. In the end you will quicly catch up to a REX based beginning.

Not clear cut. Your fine game was done at epic speed. Someone around these forums has claim to reach space before turn 200 at standard speed. This would be ~20 turns faster than your game when translated to epic speed. A person may not need the best policies, but rather just enough + sheer speed.
 
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