Thunderfalls Build Queue - 3700BC (Part II)

[Becka]

Warrior.

 

[Octavian X]

I warrior would be best. We need to defend the city.

 

[starlifter]

Barbarians cannot appear (except from huts) before Game Turn 16. The Lands barbs have no significant chance of appearing near RC, due to layout (topology). Zero change if a city is built north of Thunder Falls. Sea Barbs are less likely than normal because of the surrounding land. Now, Thunder Falls is the one that is most likely to have a barb fight eventually.

 

[Octavian X]

My opinion has always been 'Beter safe than sorry.' Defense is always a priority for me. We could be unconforably close to someone else who has a group of horsemen heading our way...

 

[starlifter]

As a note, we will need a unit to control teh unhappy dude at size 2. A warrior or Phalanx will do fine, but it must be made before size 2... or else a NONE must be recalled in time. If an AI is on our land to the west, a warrior will allow a 2-unit attack (Chariot & Archer) on the AI in the west, which will destroy an early AI capital.

 

[duke o' york]

Fortunately the poll has only just been added to this thread because we now have the option for Thunderfalls to build a settler instead and found a SSC in the special location to the north. The site is an excellent one, but we will be hard pressed to build the Colossus in time.

 

[GaryNemo]

There is a yellow Plains between our cities, 2 squares west of Regia Civitas. I'll call the site Plains#3. I like that city site because it has 3 greens + forest & ocean. Plains#3 can be controlled to never cramp our two first cities, and it's part of the road which we surely need to connect our two cities.

So, TF builds a Settler, and control the Happiness somehow. Then we'd have two cities building guards and Settlers.

 

[Leowind]

settler to settle the new site, whether it becomes our new SSC or not. Use the Archer to control unhappiness for now.

 

[starlifter]

Now that we know the continent is evidently limited, or at least limited access... and now that we know about the gem city location, TFalls must make a settler immediately. Happiness control can come from the Horseman, in the short term.

If the game goes well, the settler should proceed to the Gems area and found our future SSC, and start Colossus right away. Our gold will be good by the time the settler pops out, so we would then IPRB up to 20s, and send the next setter up north, road the one tile along the way, and found city#4 on the Grassland Shield 3 tiles north of TFalls. Units and setters then spew from both, to support RC and Gems City, and to found the remaining cities, as the game allows.

This rush is to beat the AI to Colossus and hopefully even Hanging Gardens in the Gems City, and then hopefully, we can move the capital as the size increases towards size 8 to 12.

 

[GaryNemo]

I'm not sure where "Grassland Shield 3 tiles north of TFalls" is.

If we found a city on teh plains 2 tiles West of RC, it will be much quicker to irrigate the central green, north of TFalls.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

How about the forest 2 West and 1 NW of RC? since it will have be a Gap City anyways, we might as well try and grab as much usable land as possible.

I'm guessing he was meaning the tile 1 SW of your idea. Which would be 2 NE, 1 N of TF.

 

[starlifter]

I'm not sure where "Grassland Shield 3 tiles north of TFalls" is.

If we found a city on teh plains 2 tiles West of RC, it will be much quicker to irrigate the central green, north of TFalls.

It is the 3rd tile north (the GS tile, the cyan circled spot on the PatternOverlay map with all the red letters on it).

The plains is a good spot, but several reasons make the GS a little better. First, as soon as we hit Monarchy, we get irrigated (3 food per day) instantly. This city must spawn lots of settlers, and support some, too, and the 3rd food essentially gives us a "free" setteler for several dozen turns. There is a very subtle and difficult to explain thing about the later use of the SSC. Essentially, we need only road to this city (and later RR) to get full benefit of the trade of the SSC (Gem City) with RC. This gets us a jump on the bonuses, and leaves less road vulnerable to AI and/or barbs (and so the 50/100% bonus still occurs, when can normally be cut).

The irrigation is not quicker, since the water will come in from the east, due to the GS tiles (e.g., by RC's south whale).

Another reason is we recover a Plains that will otherwise likely be lost, and that tile will have both a R and a RR on it anyway. An inportant pre-Michelanglos Chapel reason is that spot is both 3 from RC and 3 from TFalls.


by Duke of Marlbrough:

How about the forest 2 West and 1 NW of RC? since it will have be a Gap City anyways, we might as well try and grab as much usable land as possible.

That spot (the Forest, if I count right) will loose the juicy GS directly west of RC's south whale. There is going to be a city somewhere north of the Hut, maybe even more than one, and further impingement west by the Support City (this one in the RC-TFalls gap) will not have any net change in usable tiles.

Remember that for the first half of a game, cities cannot occupy anything approaching their full size. We need well-fed cities, like TFalls and this Support City to make & Support settlers, and grassland is the real helper... minimumfuss, max growth & support.

 

[Chieftess]

Thunderfalls.. hehe.. for a while there, I thought Thunderfall was in this game.

Cute.

Anyway, I always liked the early settler. Early settler = early expansion.

(yep, I'm the "strangely familar citizen" in this game. EDIT: and I even broke a tie! )

 

[starlifter]

A comment Chieftess said made me realize that my vote was originally cast for a Warrior, before we discovered the continent was small enough to allow our Horseman to literally return just in time to prevent unhappiness. It probably won't matter as I think the Settler vote will win out now, but if it ties, consider that I would now change my vote to Settler. Moreover, I also favor expending all the gold in our treasury to accelerate the production by two days (IPRB to 20s in 5 turns, buy 4 shields; we'll have 16 gold in Treasury). The reasons are stated elsewhere for the rush.

@ Chieftess: The possible mixups with TF's name, and the impact of searches by keyword in future months are why I'm starting to use TFalls from now on. Hey, haven't we seen you around here before (j/k, I know we have, )!

EDIT: Spelling x 4, add exact #s.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by starlifter
It is the 3rd tile north (the GS tile, the cyan circled spot on the PatternOverlay map with all the red letters on it).

So, yes, GaryNemo, it is the one that is 2 NE, 1 N of TF's.

That spot (the Forest, if I count right) will loose the juicy GS directly west of RC's south whale.

You would rather us build a city that gets one extra Grassland with a shield then have one that get better overall coverage?

starlifters suggestion would have an overlap of 10 tiles and only 11 usable tiles.

GaryNemos suggestion would give us an overlap of 9 tiles and 12 usable tiles.

My suggestion would give us an overlap of 5 tiles and 16 usable tiles.

So, for the sake of a Grassland shield, we could get a much more usable city location. Because, at some point, all the cities will be maxed out, so why plan for a spot that will guarantee to limit it's long-term usefulness?

Nemo's idea still gets the grassland shield, and allows for more options with irrigation choices.

With this short of a distance, the bonus for trade delivery is just a matter of one or two roaded squares.

GaryNemo's point about irrigation being quicker if the city is built on the plains is a valid one. The central area would have the possibilty of being irrigated quicker. Say we wanted to irrigate the grassland shield that is 2 NE of TF's....

If the city is built on the grassland, the shortest path would be 4 tiles. If the city is on the plains, the path is 3 tiles. Granted, all the irrigation we do in that area should benefit a city somewhere, but if we, for some reason, wanted to target specific tiles for irrigation it does matter. It's nice to see some 'different angle' thinking, Nemo.

There is going to be a city somewhere north of the Hut, maybe even more than one, and further impingement west by the Support City (this one in the RC-TFalls gap) will not have any net change in usable tiles.

It sure could. At least in therms of the cities needed to cover the terrain. We don't know what kind or how much land is over there. This city, along with any new ones we build could fit nicely into it all. Or, leaving the extra room could make it where there is a 'Gap' on the other side of the land mass. So, we could end up needed two Gap cities to cover all the land. We just don't know. Until we know what the entire continent looks like, we should base our decisions on what we know, not what we assume.

So, whether this city uses the land or another city uses it, it doesn't matter a whole lot. So, why purposely limit this city for something that we don't know about?

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

BTW, this poll was made with what we knew of the world in 3700 BC. It doesn't reflect what we know know.

Ideally we should be having a new poll after every group of turns is played.