Time for some bullying (or not)

[cripp7]

Sounds like a plan, let's hope we get another source of food or it'll be slow.

 

[Slibluhr]

I agree with the warrior (only because of the *no huts* thing)

Sorry but I can't start right now, because I'm at work without civ... I'm about to start a riot to impulse a law by which every office's computer MUST have civ installed... However, I'll be able to play in an hour or so...

(I think that's quite late, but... its playable on BTS 3.19 + bug mod, right?)

 

[kossin]

Yea, just make sure BUG is in Custom Assets or else you won't be able to load it.

 

[Slibluhr]

Ok, I've finished with playing

I'm working on the report

 

[Slibluhr]

@Kossin: WHY? It's not funny, you heard? not funny at all!

Summary:

Too many Mansas to my taste, a sub optimal (although playable) capital position. and a scout being eaten by a passing bear

Ok, lets go to the report then:

TURN 0: 4000 BC

I've sent the scout to the hill & he found ivory up there, but no food.

After thinking for a while, I've decided to settle in place anyway. BAD IDEA!

I thought that I have taken a screen shot of those cows out of the BFC, but I can't find it now

I named our capital Cow-misser... I had two reasons to do that, 1st it's really annoying when you spent half an hour thinking on something to be proven wrong and 2nd because the Aztec names are impossible to spell

TURN 1: 3950 BC
I've sent our scout to the east, just because I wanted

TURN 4: 3840 BC
Our scout climbs a hill in the desert and sees a Malinesse scout...

"Hi Mansa, it's good to be near you, you are so patient..."

TURN 5: 3800 BC
Cow-misser expands borders
I've found Malinesse lands... a pitty that we can't steal workers

TURN 8: 3680 BC

Look at this! Another Mansa Musa!

I've ever seen more than one leader of a kind... It will be funny if Mansa declares on Mansa. Isn't it kind of a suicide?

TURN 9: 3640 BC
WHAT????

OUCH! Imagine here a pic of another Mansa whose borders are south of Cow-misser

I was thinking at this point that every other civ would be Malinesse!​

TURN 10: 3600 BC
Our scout was walking in the jungle and he found a bear...

IBT he got a new job as bear lunch

TURN 12: 3520 BC
AH discovered, working on Minery.

TURN 15: 3400 BC

Cow-misser finishes the worker and starts warrior (please, call him Bear Hunter and send him to avenge our scout forced retirement)

The worker goes to work on the pasture.

TURN 17: 3320 BC
Blue Mansa founds Buddism

TURN 18: 3280 BC
Ok, ok, I'm not going to run around the place shouting and jumping... well not now...

And they are 4... they are everywhere... they are looking for me... they want to kill me... (does anybody know where the hell did I put my blue blanket?? )

Oh! Almost forget! Hinduism FIADL

TURN 19: 3240 BC
Orange Mansa adopts Hinduism (so that "distant land was not so distant after all)

Our worker finishes the pasture so I sent him to work on a camp on the elephants.

Minery discovered, so I choose BW, but ended here without hitting end turn to let cripp7 choose what to investigate during his turn.

 

[Gumbolt]

Moving the capital 1s would of got a good Bur capital. On this kind of map its almost worth exploring the map a bit. Rivers and cottages are great. Looks like a good city spot going south with the river. Lack of food resources will be an issue.

Will I need a mod to play this game??

Are we going to discuss starts and each round or just play? Is this meant as a learning game or just a game to play.

 

[Slibluhr]

1S was the alternative that I thought, however I decided to preserve that forest and I suspected that the southern cows were a desert (as suggested by de FP) so the decision would be:

In place: +1 forest +1 Unknown riverside tile & the ivory
1S: -1 forest +1 FPs side tile (possibly desert) -1 Ivory and +1forested plains (possibly with hill)

The other two unknown tiles were shared by both BFC

How could I know that the resource was in that FPs side tile?
I should have moved the settler 1S in turn 0 and then the scout 2SW of the hill, however, I'm talking about Sunday with Monday's newspapper

And no, no mod is needed, although I strongly recomend BUG mod and Blue Marble if your graphic card doesn't complain

 

[kossin]

Nice report

What Slibluhr said regarding mods. I made a Custom Game and handpicked the leader(s) then went in WB and changed names so that Diplo was easier to deal with (although we may end up wanting many enemies!).

It's too late now to discuss where the best spot would have been unfortunately. It's still a decent spot, with some farms we can make an ok Bureaucracy capital out of it (12 riverside tiles). The most important thing right now on a Pangea map is get enough cities (6) before being boxed in.

Only thing I would have done different is: research AG then AH for the research discount: worker improves fp then cows. is more important for this start than or .

We appear to be in the northwestern part of the landmass by the looks of the jungle and neighbors to our east.

Going forward, I see two potential city spots:
-rice/horses on the river. It has good production, several river tiles and the rice is irrigated.
-somewhere around the missed cow - needs more scouting obviously
Let's expand towards the AI and then go back, as always. Not too scared of early DoWs here

Switch research to Ag then perhaps TW: we'll make the settler at low pop since we can't wait to grow to size 4 I think. Not sure on this, maybe BW will still a be better tech after Ag.

Let's see... 8 turns until Ag is in (don't think the second pop will make it faster). 4 turns to finish the camp, 4 turns for a mine + 2 moving... this is too slow.

Worker finishes camp (4 turns), moves to hill (1 turn) , puts (2 turns) in a mine, move to forrest S out of Cow misser (1 turn), Ag finishes, move to fp and improve (7 turns).
It's a lot of wasted turns but it's the best I can come up with.

I don't see us whipping much with this Capital, it will just grow back too slowly.

I'm hoping for as much discussion as possible so we don't get headaches about what "could have" and "would have".

 

[Nares]

Lurker Comment:

What Slibluhr said regarding mods. I made a Custom Game and handpicked the leader(s) then went in WB and changed names so that Diplo was easier to deal with (although we may end up wanting many enemies!).

It would have been more amusing if they were more clearly the nerds you're going to bully (apparently they bully you first?). What I'm looking for as a reader are names so nerdy that I really believe these Mansas are all LARPing.

Perhaps James T. Musa, or Mansa-luc Picard. The challenge is finding a set of readily modified names nerdier than the obvious ones I listed. Also, if you can name me an activity nerdier than LARPing, you win a cookie.

 

[Slibluhr]

Of course, I'd say that we need to expand southwards first (to Mansa Mali) because there is a desert to the east and Mansa will not be expanding to us by that side, however, I think that Mansa's border shouldn't be far to the NW. Taking into account that mansa should be somewhere South of Mansa (SE if you ask me)going SSW would block Mansa and Mansa, but we need to watch carefully in what direction expands Mansa (probably we will end up blocking him if he expands to the east) and we can let mansa be, because he will surely expand to the E... although if there is no more room perhaps he shall expand toward us.

I choose Minning to be nearer to BW... to get more cities in better placements fast. I thought going AG->AH but then remembered that this is not Noble... here you can't get both of them by turn 12...then Minery by turn 17 while training a worker. I seriously thought abut it, but at the end I thought that the ivory would represent a nice boost to commerce, and since we want to get more cities fast (so we will a settler ASAP (chop+2whip or so) we need BW. Once working the ivory, I think that we will be able to get AG really fast (doesn't we get a discount for that being already known by almost every AI?)

All in all, everything is bear's fault! why the hell shall he eat the only non-Mali Scout in the map??? It had historical value! ... er... and we need more exploration... and a Bear hunter, but more exploration...

Disclaimer: Mansas are, in order of appareance: Orange, Common, Yellow, Blue, Orange, Blue, Orange, Yellow, Common

Edit:
And regarding to Bully... I've always prefer bully guys that are bigger than me... it's funnier!... this game could be amazing if it where the other way round, we were Mansa and there where lots of Montys! (of course it would be *OUR* duty to bully *THEM*

 

[kossin]

Lurker Comment:
It would have been more amusing if they were more clearly the nerds you're going to bully (apparently they bully you first?). What I'm looking for as a reader are names so nerdy that I really believe these Mansas are all LARPing.

Perhaps James T. Musa, or Mansa-luc Picard. The challenge is finding a set of readily modified names nerdier than the obvious ones I listed. Also, if you can name me an activity nerdier than LARPing, you win a cookie.

Interesting thought, I may keep it in the bag for another SG, with a flock of Pacals perhaps

Edit:
I guess this is my job in any case. Let's wait for some more discussion before going though.

1. Slibluhr - Just played
2. cripp7 - UP!
3. Gumbolt - On deck!
4. mlinneak
5. Meerk
6. kossin

 

[Meerk]

I agree it doesn't look like we will be able to do too much whipping due to lack of food. We do have 7 forests to chop, and I assume we will mostly be doing that to speed up settlers (no WWs to race for, after all).

I am actually a little surprised to see that it's only 8 turns for ag. It evidently costs 93 to research, and we have 10 per turn. Are we getting a bonus from somewhere? Forgive my ignorance. But in any case, it looks like we barely get it in 8 turns.

So I guess I think we should continue to research BW, although I am hardly convinced. I feel early game tech selection is one of the weakest aspects of my game, so I am eager to hear other people's thoughts.

 

[mlinneak]

So Peach and Yellow are cautious, but Blue is pleased. It will certainly be interesting to see how diplomacy plays out in this game, whether all the Mansas will be best friends or whether there will be any strife amongst them. If they all buddy up it will be somewhat intimidating to attempt to bully one into a DOW on us, since they would likely bring all of their pals along to crash the party.

So far, I would think we are going to want to REX as much as possible and probably put research on the back burner, focusing only on military techs and what we need to get by. We won't be any competition for teching here...

I did not see anything in the variant that prohibited espionage, maybe we should also consider getting to alphabet as quickly as possible - we could steal techs, sure, but we could also cause enough annoyances with other missions to incite enough anger from a chosen target that we might be able to better choose which Mansa does DOW. Maybe we could get Blue to be our friend since he is already pleased, then harass one of the others enough to DOW, maybe then Blue at least wouldn't join in because he couldn't betray us, his close friend lol.

What do you guys think?

BTW - pretty funny trick, kossin, this is going to be fun Do you have more surprises in store for us? Or is that a secret...

 

[mlinneak]

Nice to see as well that both earliest religions were founded by two separate Mansas - this should at least help them to not like each other so much. Maybe they will end up each others' worst enemy by viewing each other as heathens

 

[kossin]

I agree it doesn't look like we will be able to do too much whipping due to lack of food. We do have 7 forests to chop, and I assume we will mostly be doing that to speed up settlers (no WWs to race for, after all).

I am actually a little surprised to see that it's only 8 turns for ag. It evidently costs 93 to research, and we have 10 per turn. Are we getting a bonus from somewhere? Forgive my ignorance. But in any case, it looks like we barely get it in 8 turns.

So I guess I think we should continue to research BW, although I am hardly convinced. I feel early game tech selection is one of the weakest aspects of my game, so I am eager to hear other people's thoughts.

I'm guessing some Mansas have researched Ag so we are getting a 4% bonus for each one. The only reason I see to go BW now is for chopping but it'll slow growth afterwards, I still favor Ag now and then BW.

So Peach and Yellow are cautious, but Blue is pleased. It will certainly be interesting to see how diplomacy plays out in this game, whether all the Mansas will be best friends or whether there will be any strife amongst them. If they all buddy up it will be somewhat intimidating to attempt to bully one into a DOW on us, since they would likely bring all of their pals along to crash the party.

So far, I would think we are going to want to REX as much as possible and probably put research on the back burner, focusing only on military techs and what we need to get by. We won't be any competition for teching here...

I did not see anything in the variant that prohibited espionage, maybe we should also consider getting to alphabet as quickly as possible - we could steal techs, sure, but we could also cause enough annoyances with other missions to incite enough anger from a chosen target that we might be able to better choose which Mansa does DOW. Maybe we could get Blue to be our friend since he is already pleased, then harass one of the others enough to DOW, maybe then Blue at least wouldn't join in because he couldn't betray us, his close friend lol.

What do you guys think?

BTW - pretty funny trick, kossin, this is going to be fun Do you have more surprises in store for us? Or is that a secret...

Mansa has a +1 base attitude with the human and the same peaceweight as all the others so peace could be expected for a while.
In my test game, the tech pace was really furious though!
It's the only thing I did on the map - without getting map knowledge - as I still wanted to play it. Espionage is allowed yes, but without the Great Wall, it'll be very slow as a starting strategy. We could always want to switch to it around Constitution though.
I think the big worry will be Culture/Space wins for this game, so we need to either:
-beat them to culture or space
-get them to declare war so we can take their shinies!

Nice to see as well that both earliest religions were founded by two separate Mansas - this should at least help them to not like each other so much. Maybe they will end up each others' worst enemy by viewing each other as heathens

Mansa doesn't start with Mysticism as a freebee so the religions were bound to be founded by a different one. Let's just hope they don't spead it too much! Adopting a different religion should be a good way to instill some hatred for a possible DoW if we want to head that route.

 

[Meerk]

I'm guessing some Mansas have researched Ag so we are getting a 4% bonus for each one. The only reason I see to go BW now is for chopping but it'll slow growth afterwards, I still favor Ag now and then BW.

Ahh, thanks for the explanation. Ag first is fine with me.

I
I think the big worry will be Culture/Space wins for this game, so we need to either:
-beat them to culture or space
-get them to declare war so we can take their shinies!

Mansa doesn't start with Mysticism as a freebee so the religions were bound to be founded by a different one. Let's just hope they don't spead it too much! Adopting a different religion should be a good way to instill some hatred for a possible DoW if we want to head that route.

It feels to me like we will have a tough time grabbing enough quality cities to beat them to space. Culture seems plausible, assuming we can get 6 cities. But I feel like a purely peacemonger strategy would be at odds with the bully theme.

So I am all for carrying a big stick, and demanding stuff until they DOW.

 

[Slibluhr]

Ok, that's why I choose not to end turn 19... now cripp7 can change to AG without any porblem

Did he said when is he going to play?

 

[kossin]

Not as of yet that I've seen. There's no hurry though, not everyone pitched in and the save hasn't been posted for 24 hours yet

 

[cripp7]

got it. this is going to be one wild and crazy ride. Going Ag>BW is better atm, getting that going first. Hopefully we'll get a religious war going on. As soon as a take a better look at the save I'll write a the PPP.

 

[Slibluhr]

Not as of yet that I've seen. There's no hurry though, not everyone pitched in and the save hasn't been posted for 24 hours yet

well, I know, however, I want to taint the lands with Mansa's blood!