Time for vampires to own up to their origin?

[Capn Charlie]

Oh, that's a long and complicated background held together with unicorn farts and pixie dust, I was hoping they were just hemovores.

This works too, though. And I do like themes where the taint is not one of disease, or mutation, but one of morality.

 

[KillerClowns]

Oh, that's a long and complicated background held together with unicorn farts and pixie dust, I was hoping they were just hemovores.

This works too, though. And I do like themes where the taint is not one of disease, or mutation, but one of morality.

Mate, this is Erebus. As such, it, like quite a lot of things, is more held together with unicorn blood, ground-up pixies, and good old fashioned human evil.

 

[Verdian]

Which story shows that Os'Gabella wants the Netherblade? That sounds like good reading.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

That would be found at the end of the Wages of Sin and in Against the Grey, that is, if you go the Calabim route. After Ethne is killed with the blade Os-Gabella sends a Succubus to tell Decius that the Sorceress would give him anything within her considerable power in exchange for him bringer her this blade. That is the main reason he invades the Sidar lands. However, once Decius obtains the blade he tracks down Sandalphon to find out why she wants the blade rather than bringing it directly to her. He decides that the blade itself may be more valuable than her reward, so he decides to keep it.

If you chose the Malakim route, Decius seeks the blade knowing what it does, so that he can destroy it and free Ethne's soul.

Either way, Decius then turns to preventing Auric from ascending. As he has not found the Godslayer, he decides to see if the Netherblade could slay a god too by banishing him to the netherworld. I don't think that he had fully ascended yet when Rhoanna and Falamar struck him (although he was very close) with this blade, so we don't know if it would work on a real god, but it did succeed in saving Erebus from another Ice Age. It probably also gave Laroth the power he needed to usurp Arawn's precept though, so Erebus may still end up under the tyranny of a once-mortal god. I suspect he might choose to just kill every living thing and rule their souls in the Netherworld rather than holding onto Erebus as a personal kingdom like Mulcarn/Auric would though.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Of course, Decius & Rhoanna & Falamar don't know about Laroth. Also, Decius, as good, may want Ethene freed, but he doesn't dare destroy the sword any more, since it is holding Auric captive, presumably also preventing a new god or Winter from being born.

Or not. We know that the angel who gave the sword to Rathus wasn't being entirely honest with him, so it certainly isn't garunteed that destroying it would free anyone.

They are your typical siblings, they fight, they argue, they kill those the other loves out of jealousy, boredom or to make a point. Just your basic brother and sister.

I suspect, being immortal, powerful tyrants, they either come to some kind of understanding or else one would have destroyed the other long ago. But to my mind they have very different personalities and are very clear about which of the Calabim lands, vassals, and livestock belong to each of them.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

Of course, Decius & Rhoanna & Falamar don't know about Laroth. Also, Decius, as good, may want Ethene freed, but he doesn't dare destroy the sword any more, since it is holding Auric captive, presumably also preventing a new god or Winter from being born.

So it doesnt send souls to Laroth's vault? Or are the characters misinformed?

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Both, actually. It sends them to Laroth, but they don't know abou Laroth. It does trap victims in Arwans vault, but destorying wouldn't necesarily free them.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Laroth isn't a god and so does not have a vault (yet). He controls but a small portion of Awarn's Vault, the Netherworld. The Sidar apparently knew that the Netherblade binds the victim's soul to the Netherworld, but they don't know that the angel who gave Rathaus this blade was a traitor who serves Laroth instead of Arawn. They probably don't know anything at all about Laroth, and even if they do it would be limited to legends from the Age of Magic that are probably inaccurate and don't deal with what happened to him after Kylorin slayed him. The Sidar highly revere Arawn (they used to worship him, but gave up when they realized he didn't care to be worshiped) and not want to help this sorcerer overthrow him.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

The civilizations are driven by a design grid. Even though we like vampires they wouldnt have been in if they didnt fill a design need (function leads to flavor, not the other way around). For us that meant the design grid said Aeron, god of murder -> dominion of the body -> ? Civilization.

Being a heavily left-brain thinker I'm intrigued by the idea of creativity regulated by charts, graphs, or even the stately grid format. How does one design a design grid?

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Either way, Decius then turns to preventing Auric from ascending. As he has not found the Godslayer, he decides to see if the Netherblade could slay a god too by banishing him to the netherworld.

Wow, Decius isn't a mental giant, is he? "dur hur let's send auric to a prison he can presumably be freed from somehow instead of outright killing him and being rid of him." I thought the big names in Erebus were smart, pragmatic, and genre savvy enough not to fall into one of the oldest traps in the book like that. Ah, well.

It probably also gave Laroth the power he needed to usurp Arawn's precept though, so Erebus may still end up under the tyranny of a once-mortal god. I suspect he might choose to just kill every living thing and rule their souls in the Netherworld rather than holding onto Erebus as a personal kingdom like Mulcarn/Auric would though.

I still remember Laroth wanting powerful souls so they could serve as his generals, and I still don't buy that either Auric or Ethne would let themselves be enslaved by this crazy angel who's looking to overthrow a god. If anything I'd figure he screwed himself by having the netherblade drop a pissed off near-god in his lap.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The netherblade did kill him, and bound his soul to a specific vault (the Netherworld) afterward. How would you have killed him? His immortal soul would have to go somewhere after death. It would probably have ended up in the same place, but with the ability to escape. It might even have ended up in Mulcarn's abandoned hell, where he would likely have ascended to his old throne and ruled whether he fully regained his godhood or not. Even if Decius could have found the Godslayer in time (which is unlikely), Auric's divine spark would most likely have been reincarnated in another mortal again. All that would have done is delayed the return of the Age of Ice by a single generation. By trapping him in the Netherworld, he can hold back this fate indefinitely.

The only way that Auric could conceivably have been stopped permanently would be for a vampire to consume his soul. Of course, it would be extremely hard if not impossible to subdue a near-god enough to kill him in the precise manner required by this dark ritual. It is also possible that the vampire would have been unable to process such a powerful soul, and would have instead have become possessed. In that case Auric's body and possibly the purely Auric part of his soul would have die, but there would still be another Avatar of Winter and Age of Ice.



Laroth is not an angel, he is a dead mortal whose mastery of spirit magic allows him to inspire others to work with him against their interests. He twists the sphere of mercy so that all altruism is devoted to helping him. Laroth may effectively be using other souls as slaves, but this isn't obvious to them. He paints himself as their savior, the only one who can help the dead overcome the tyranny of Arawn. It seems to me that Auric and Ethne could be rather easily convinced to ally with him, at least briefly before they figure out his real goals.

As Ethne was a follower of Sirona, it can be assumed that the spirit sphere is a dominant portion of her soul, and this portion can be most easily be manipulated by the dead archmage. She would of course consider this as her again devoting her life to help save those less fortunate, in this case the many mortal souls who have not realized their fate. Just as she did what was unthinkable (building the Mercurian Gate) to save many of her people from death, she would again make a bold move in order to bring those who had died back to life. She would see this as using Laroth as a tool to serve her goal, while in fact her compassion for the dead is misplaced and being purposefully used to bind her to the archmage's will.

Also, it is not clear that the Mulcarn personality or power came to the underworld with Auric. Auric's soul when undriven by the power of the sphere of ice would be far easier to control. If his desire for divinity still remains, then he would see it as in his interest to help overthrow Arawn but then turn on Laroth and claim the throne for himself. Even if both parties know they will turn on each other eventually, it is in their best interest to work together for now.

 

[Tielby]

Well, setting aside the fact that this thread has been totally hijacked lol, this is one of my favorite things about FfH. You CAN play the game without any of this background knowledge, but every time you actually scratch the surface, you find out how incredibly DEEP the lore is. And every time this stuff comes up, it just makes me want to play the mod so much more!!!

Where do I sign up for the Kael-AlazkanAssassin-Chalid-Corlindale-C.Roland-Hexagonian-Loki-Nikis-Knight-Ploeperpengel-SeZereth-Sto-Talchas-White Rabbit-Wilboman-Woodelf-and-MagisterCultuum Appreciation Society?

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Wow, Decius isn't a mental giant, is he? "dur hur let's send auric to a prison he can presumably be freed from somehow instead of outright killing him and being rid of him." I thought the big names in Erebus were smart, pragmatic, and genre savvy enough not to fall into one of the oldest traps in the book like that. Ah, well.

Um, what?
Death is the underworld. There isn't a dead that doesn't lead to the afterlife here. Sending someone to the underworld=killing them.
So the choices are 1) try to hack apart a god, perhaps to merely send him to his home where he'll be even more powerful, or
2) Take a gamble that this blade will kill him easier and send him to a place that he doesn't personally rule.

Perhaps he's genre savy enough to know that any kind of death is merely a prison one can escape from; surely fighting the reincarnated god of winter might lead one to that conclusion, huh?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, I think there is one dead that doesn't lead to an afterlife: the death by the vampiric soul devouring ritual.


It actually could have been rather interesting if an Evil Decius had accepted the dark gift and somehow managed to weaken Auric enough to be able to feed upon his soul. Decius would then become an extremely powerful vampire lord (possibly even gaining mastery over the ice sphere in the process) who would rule the largest and most evil empire since the time of Kyorlin's reign, but would have prevented Laroth's ascension (so long as he keep feeding and guarding against assassins enough to prevent him from joining Laroth's army himself).

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I vaguely remember, in a thread about undead I think, Kael mentioning that there were body, soul, and spirit. I don't quite remember how he saw it working though.
Regardless, even if vampiric rituals can compeletly destroy an individual, I don't envision it being an act that could readily be used as a weapon, being time consuming and requiring a helpless victim. The Nether Blade was used as much to give an advantage in the melee as to lock away Auric.

 

[Luckmann]

Well, I think there is one dead that doesn't lead to an afterlife: the death by the vampiric soul devouring ritual.

It actually could have been rather interesting if an Evil Decius had accepted the dark gift and somehow managed to weaken Auric enough to be able to feed upon his soul. Decius would then become an extremely powerful vampire lord (possibly even gaining mastery over the ice sphere in the process) who would rule the largest and most evil empire since the time of Kyorlin's reign, but would have prevented Laroth's ascension (so long as he keep feeding and guarding against assassins enough to prevent him from joining Laroth's army himself).

OM NOM NOM NOM!

An idea for a neat mechanic would be to give units with Hero and Vampire promotions, or just Losha Valas, special promotions for killing special enemies. Losha Valas killed Orthus? Free Strong promotion. Killed Valin Phanuel? Bless spell! Govannon, Hemah? Channelling +1 each. And so on.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

OM NOM NOM NOM!

An idea for a neat mechanic would be to give units with Hero and Vampire promotions, or just Losha Valas, special promotions for killing special enemies. Losha Valas killed Orthus? Free Strong promotion. Killed Valin Phanuel? Bless spell! Govannon, Hemah? Channelling +1 each. And so on.

Losha'd need a weaker base to balance it out a bit.

 

[Skitters]

For us that meant the design grid said Aeron, god of murder -> dominion of the body -> ? Civilization.

It was actually a very easy decision, as I mentioned it was the first civ we picked. But Aeron was cruel and calculating, methodical and powerful. Not overt like Camulous, not involved in massive wars, he comes for you from the shadows, he is the god of assassins. So these are a dark, subtely powerful people. Body gives us blood, passion (but not ideological like Bhall, more base) and flesh. Because they epitomize body magic they should be perfect of form and beautiful, and because they epitomize Aeron they should be swift, strong and cruel.

Vampires were the perfect choice. But the design grid lead us to a specific implementation for them which became the Calabim. They are alive because they represent body magic, they are driven by the desires of the flesh because of this, they are cruel and punishing because of Aeron.

Hope that helps.

I can't help but feel now that Calabim Assasins/Shadows should be a little more unique - perhaps something on the lines of if you give a unit the gift that they should get the Burning Blood promotion as a represenation of blood lust?

 

[WarKirby]

I can't help but feel now that Calabim Assasins/Shadows should be a little more unique - perhaps something on the lines of if you give a unit the gift that they should get the Burning Blood promotion as a represenation of blood lust?

I agree here.

The Cualli in Fall Farther might provide some inspiration. They're a race of evil lizardmen who also worship Aeron, and are very asassin-focused.

Their hero is the most powerful assasin there is, I think. Notably, he has Cannibalize AND Aeron's chosen, allowing him to strike turn after turn and keep recovering.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I tend to think that Assassins should manifest a deep but controlled misanthropy, not the rage that Burning Blood would embody. They are murderers, but are very, very premeditated.