Tips on playing Iroquois?

[ANightDude]

They are, by far, my favorite Civ. The fact that forests work as roads is great when it comes to gold, so you can get a pretty nice income early on in the game. Mohawk warriors are incredible and defense, and longhouses can make incredible production for your cities along with lumber mills.

That being said, I tend to lose on them quite a bit. I've one once - as a science victory - yet I always seem to find myself lacking in technology, culture, military especially...

Does anyone have any tips on playing this Civ? I've played the majority of Civs in the game yet the Iroquois I struggle with constantly.

 

[deo]

Well, it would be great if you told us first what kind of settings you play on, what map, pace, difficulty etc. Also, what kind of opening strategy do you use?

 

[msawchuk]

I also always have trouble with the Iroquois. I can win with any other civ, but with them it's hard. Longhouses generally add very little production to my cities, and the cities that I conquer with Mohawks are never really worth it. I generally don't conquer much in the classical era, but I often try to with iro because of the Mohawks.

 

[The Pilgrim]

I also always have trouble with the Iroquois. I can win with any other civ, but with them it's hard. Longhouses generally add very little production to my cities, and the cities that I conquer with Mohawks are never really worth it. I generally don't conquer much in the classical era, but I often try to with iro because of the Mohawks.

So why aren't you playing them as any other civ if what you usually do works in most cases?

 

[ANightDude]

Well, it would be great if you told us first what kind of settings you play on, what map, pace, difficulty etc. Also, what kind of opening strategy do you use?

Oh dear forgive me.

Continents, Large Map, Standard Pace, Prince. Almost always that way.

I'm usually one to go for liberty, but part of me is wondering if Tradition is the way to go. Perhaps expanding the borders early on to claim nearby forests for the road bonus, as well as the food bonus?

I always like to go liberty simply due to the fact of the free settler, free worker, great person and golden age. When I don't go with those I feel like I'm missing out and wasting my city's production on something that makes me lose something else.

 

[akashsara]

I've always found that the forests are most useful with longhouses. If you have a lot of forests nearby along with a longhouse, you won't need to bother about production at all.

 

[Light Cleric]

Funnily enough I could actually use some advice about playing them too, just on Deity

They're personally right down at the bottom of my list of civs to play with Germany. The window for Mohawks to be effective is PAINFULLY small(on some maps it never opens) at that level on top of how Swordsmen kinda blow. Longhouses are very hit-and-miss; they lose the base +10% from the normal Workshop, and not only might you not get much forest to be effective to start with, you're unable to chop it for other improvements without screwing your Longhouse up. I'm guessing there's a strategy that works with them outside of my normal playstyles(and I actually can be pretty flexible with that depending on what civ I'm playing) but I just can't see it.

 

[futurehermit]

On emperor and below, I've been playing around with a GL --> IW slingshot. But I agree that they are pretty underwhelming -- I think mainly because swords suck. Otherwise, a swordsman that doesn't require iron would be amazing...

 

[Securion]

The trick on diety is to save the forests by not chopping for early wonders and get very good production during the following age or two.
After that, its very much as any other civ...

 

[The Pilgrim]

Funnily enough I could actually use some advice about playing them too, just on Deity

Maybe you should ask the AI. It doesn't have any problems. Nor does Bismark AI.

They're personally right down at the bottom of my list of civs to play with Germany. The window for Mohawks to be effective is PAINFULLY small(on some maps it never opens) at that level on top of how Swordsmen kinda blow. Longhouses are very hit-and-miss; they lose the base +10% from the normal Workshop, and not only might you not get much forest to be effective to start with, you're unable to chop it for other improvements without screwing your Longhouse up. I'm guessing there's a strategy that works with them outside of my normal playstyles(and I actually can be pretty flexible with that depending on what civ I'm playing) but I just can't see it.

Who cares about mohawks? Ethiopian UA is utterly useless and doesn't seem like many people are struggling with them. Some perks are just better than others, but none of them should define how you play, unless all of them together have perfect synergy (Mongols, duh), but that's not always the case.
I see mohawks as slightly better meat shields, they can be decently useful when upgraded but not more than immortals, pw or other UU's from the same period. I will use CB's (faster CB's) for the rush anyways. Iroquois are production powerhouse if you have forests. If you don't... well, you're screwed. Somewhat. You should go and borrow some forests from your neighbors then, I guess. I had very successful deity games with them. Played AI-like. Liberty, settler spam = huge and overwhelming army. A while ago, though, haven't played after the patch. Have you noticed any difference?

The trick on diety is to save the forests by not chopping for early wonders and get very good production during the following age or two.
After that, its very much as any other civ...

If you don't chase early wonders on deity, which is a bad idea in the first place, you need no tricks.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Iroquois are production powerhouse if you have forests.

Mhh. Much like other people here, i've had troubles trying to play them too (on Immortal).
If i try to keep my forests, it seems like my cities won't grow enough to become those "production powerhouse" (and in addition i will fall to far behind in tech) so i guess, most of the trick is to find a balance between keeping enough forests for production with longhouses, and cutting some to have enough farms so your city will grow.

Played AI-like. Liberty, settler spam = huge and overwhelming army.

Need i mention again this never worked for me. Whenever i try this (no matter what civ), i end up with half a dozen pop2 cities and -15 happiness (slightly exagerating). Might have something to do with not having stupid happiness bonus like the AI

 

[tetley]

If you don't chase early wonders on deity, which is a bad idea in the first place,

What do you mean you don't chase early wonders on deity? The Koreans built GL, so I chased Korea; the Greeks built Zeus so I chased Greece....

 

[Matthew.]

The Civ is better when played wide, IMO. The longhouse and forest tiles will result in some crazy production, but if you are trying to work a lot of farm tiles they go unused.

For lower difficulties it may be worth playing around with Great Library and bulbing iron working so you can get mohawks without slowing down universities. (Or alternatively bulbing philosophy for NC and using the early advantage to get iron working)

I have no tips for Deity as I can't recall ever playing a Deity game with Iroquois. Although I suspect you are better off ignoring mohawks completely.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Mhh. Much like other people here, i've had troubles trying to play them too (on Immortal).
If i try to keep my forests, it seems like my cities won't grow enough to become those "production powerhouse" (and in addition i will fall to far behind in tech) so i guess, most of the trick is to find a balance between keeping enough forests for production with longhouses, and cutting some to have enough farms so your city will grow.

Need i mention again this never worked for me. Whenever i try this (no matter what civ), i end up with half a dozen pop2 cities and -15 happiness (slightly exagerating). Might have something to do with not having stupid happiness bonus like the AI

I aim for something like size 5 secondary cities for the first part of the game, capital and couple of other core cities are bigger obviously. It's equivalent to working 4 mines at the price of one irrigated farm. If you have granary, watermill, granary resources, religion, maritime CS, you can work more lumber mills. CS solve most of the happiness problems, even if you don't have religion. There is no much competition over them on immortal. Deity is harder in that sense, of course. And bunch of other senses as well.

What do you mean you don't chase early wonders on deity? The Koreans built GL, so I chased Korea; the Greeks built Zeus so I chased Greece....

Touche!

 

[Light Cleric]

Maybe you should ask the AI. It doesn't have any problems. Nor does Bismark AI.


Who cares about mohawks? Ethiopian UA is utterly useless and doesn't seem like many people are struggling with them. Some perks are just better than others, but none of them should define how you play, unless all of them together have perfect synergy (Mongols, duh), but that's not always the case.
I see mohawks as slightly better meat shields, they can be decently useful when upgraded but not more than immortals, pw or other UU's from the same period. I will use CB's (faster CB's) for the rush anyways. Iroquois are production powerhouse if you have forests. If you don't... well, you're screwed. Somewhat. You should go and borrow some forests from your neighbors then, I guess. I had very successful deity games with them. Played AI-like. Liberty, settler spam = huge and overwhelming army. A while ago, though, haven't played after the patch. Have you noticed any difference?

My issue with the Iroquois is that if the UA is kind of mediocre, the Mohawks are situational, and Longhouses are pretty iffy...why play them? Whenever I do, I end up asking myself, "Why aren't I playing China/Sweden/Aztecs/America/The Ottomans/any other warmonger civ?". Sure, some of those may be one-trick ponies, but they have one hell of a trick(Janissaries, mmm).

Also, Ethiopia's UA is hardly useless. Go Tradition and you're basically guaranteed to have +20% combat bonus during your first war, and maybe a good bit of the second if you pick on a city-spammer. The Stele is the real kicker though.

 

[The Pilgrim]

My issue with the Iroquois is that if the UA is kind of mediocre, the Mohawks are situational, and Longhouses are pretty iffy...why play them? Whenever I do, I end up asking myself, "Why aren't I playing China/Sweden/Aztecs/America/The Ottomans/any other warmonger civ?". Sure, some of those may be one-trick ponies, but they have one hell of a trick(Janissaries, mmm).

Well, I can ask myself why aren't I playing China every game. Doesn't mean much. If you only want to play OP civs, that's up to you. But you obviously don't, so you have to adjust. Most civs aren't OP, but solid overall. Russia is situational too and I'll take it over Ottomans any day. For the same reasons I'll take Iroquois over Ottomans any day. I prefer production bonus during the whole game rather than one great melee UU. Maybe it's a matter of taste. Dunno.

Also, Ethiopia's UA is hardly useless. Go Tradition and you're basically guaranteed to have +20% combat bonus during your first war, and maybe a good bit of the second if you pick on a city-spammer. The Stele is the real kicker though.

And because the stele is such a kicker, I'll spam/conquer cities if I can and screw the UA.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

CS solve most of the happiness problems, even if you don't have religion. There is no much competition over them on immortal.

Huh. Sure once i have an economy working, i can often choose some CS and have them as allies. At least until AI has spies and can coup my allied CS while we are at war (i once checked out of curiosity, as expected i had 0% chance to coup CS at -60 influence with a special agent ). However it's during the early game that happiness hurts me the most.

Well, this is hardly related with Iroquois, more generally with wide empires, but it might also be an issue with Iroquois. If they work best with wide empires, i find it much harder, and much more luck dependent to go wide rather than tall, even if wide empires can be ultimately much stronger

 

[Light Cleric]

It's not about OP civs. The Iroquois just are just at the bottom of my list. I would prefer to play any of China, Sweden, America, The Ottomans, Persia, Songhai, Japan, Babylon, any of the civs with silly ranged Horse UUs, the list just goes on. I just don't see the appeal in a UB that may or may not work depending on the terrain.

And yes, Ottomans may only have one trick(although maybe 2 depending how the Pangaea is shaped ), but Rifle/Infantry upgraded Janissaries are absolutely sick.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Huh. Sure once i have an economy working, i can often choose some CS and have them as allies. At least until AI has spies and can coup my allied CS while we are at war (i once checked out of curiosity, as expected i had 0% chance to coup CS at -60 influence with a special agent ). However it's during the early game that happiness hurts me the most.

Well, this is hardly related with Iroquois, more generally with wide empires, but it might also be an issue with Iroquois. If they work best with wide empires, i find it much harder, and much more luck dependent to go wide rather than tall, even if wide empires can be ultimately much stronger

In early game focusing on barb quests helps a lot, and Iroquois have an advantage here due to faster movement and maybe mohawks if for some reason you have them. And better cash flow. Although it's not too significant, especially with liberty and slower border expansion.

It's not about OP civs. The Iroquois just are just at the bottom of my list. I would prefer to play any of China, Sweden, America, The Ottomans, Persia, Songhai, Japan, Babylon, any of the civs with silly ranged Horse UUs, the list just goes on. I just don't see the appeal in a UB that may or may not work depending on the terrain.

With forest bias most likely it will. And many unique perks depend on terrain. Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you. I just can think about at least half dozen of civs that are lower than the Iroquois on my list.

And yes, Ottomans may only have one trick(although maybe 2 depending how the Pangaea is shaped ), but Rifle/Infantry upgraded Janissaries are absolutely sick.

Yeah, but you need to survive till then. And they get no bonuses whatsoever before that point. So they're still meh. Water maps excluded, of course.

Btw, what about our daily fix?

 

[Light Cleric]

Btw, what about our daily fix?

Oh, I'm sorry, let me wave my magic wand.

No, seriously, I was in a hurry for work this morning(render overnight, start upload in the morning ) and accidentally uploaded it as Private.