Too Hard and Too dumb

[claudius888]

Maybe its me... and some of you may say, Claudius... you're an idiot. But- here it is; i'm just gonna lay it down for you: I've been playing this #*#*# game for XXX number of times and I have NEVER won. Okay... some will say, oh for me, its so easy... i just do this and that- BS!.

I play BTS at Warlord level doing a normal build and fight strategy- no diplomtatic, cultural, spacehip BS win- just straight fighting- and i NEVER have one. And i know its not me; OK?

The game is seriously out of balance. If you just fight... the game generates an insane number of units; And eventually all nations gang up against you. Now- some may say- ohh just do a diplomacy this and that; or a defensive pact- It Doesn't Work!!!!! Which Sucks!!!!!

Why can't the game behave with its alliances a little more realistically? Why is it so hard to get another nation to join in a war against an enemy. For example, I'm on good terms with another nation, and an enemy of both is kicking my butt, But i still can't get any nation, to join in a war. And even friendly countries end up turning against you. I dunno... this games broken; but still frustratingly, i still play it. But with the same frustrating, losing result. I hate this game; and i love this game. Please fix it and bring on Civ V.

Thank You for listening to my diatribal, dribbly complaining.
Claudius

 

[3 EMS]

The game is seriously out of balance. If you just fight... the game generates an insane number of units; And eventually all nations gang up against you. Now- some may say- ohh just do a diplomacy this and that; or a defensive pact- It Doesn't Work!!!!! Which Sucks!!!!!

Try something besides 'just fighting'. Build yourself up a little. Take a break between fighting to rebuild. If you are strong enough ALL nations won't gang up on you unless you defy the AP.

 

[karadoc]

The game isn't perfectly realistic, but it isn't terrible. Winning via conquest is probably the most common victory, so that is certainly achievable. It is possible to have allies that fight wars with you, but you have to make it worth their while. Why would they want to ally with someone who is just only interested in killing everyone? The AI will not gang up on you unless you give them a good reason to do so.

Defensive pacts work, but you just have to remember that they are _defensive_ pacts, is they will be canceled if you declare war. The pact only helps if someone declares war on you.

The game doesn't just "generate an insane number of units" - the AI players build the units in the same way that you do. So if they have an insane number of units, so can you - if you just do what they do. If you've never won, perhaps you should consider changing your strategy. Civ 4 is a pretty complicated game. I think that playing the game with difficult goals in mind, eg. diplomacy and economy, might help learn better strategics to help you with your pure-war games.

Actually, if you have no interest in diplomacy or other aspects of the game, I recommend that you try a custom game with predetermined teams and always-war. When I want to play a pure war game of civ, I use settings like this:

Teams: me + 2 AI vs 4 AI
Map: Normal size donut, usually with desert centre
Advanced start: renaissance era
Always war
Aggressive AI

I find those kind of settings pretty fun, and since the focus is on war you might enjoy it more than ordinary games. If you wanted to, you could start by playing one where you are on a team of 4... I mean, you+3 vs 3; Then if you win that, you could either raise your difficulty level or just change the teams to you+3 vs 4, or whatever.

 

[Ramesses]

Cool story bro.

So if you're having so much trouble, why not move down a difficulty level or check out some strategy guides in the War Academy? I assure you that either of those will be more productive than making threads like these.

 

[naterator]

Maybe its me... And i know its not me...

It is you.

If you want other civs to help you in war, try applying a little in-game diplomacy (BEFORE the problem arises, not in reaction to it) There is alot more to civ than pure fighting, and if you want to move past warlord, you're gonna have to learn them... well... actually, if you want to move past monarch you're gonna have to learn them, victory at noble and prince can be achieved by nothing but pure fighting.
The best thing to do is post a save in the strategy and tips forum and ask for help. That way you can get advice specific to your game. The folk who routinely rout emperor and up hang out there and are often happy to help.

 

[God-Emperor]

Maybe its me... and some of you may say, Claudius... you're an idiot. But- here it is; i'm just gonna lay it down for you: I've been playing this #*#*# game for XXX number of times and I have NEVER won. Okay... some will say, oh for me, its so easy... i just do this and that- BS!.

I play BTS at Warlord level doing a normal build and fight strategy- no diplomtatic, cultural, spacehip BS win- just straight fighting- and i NEVER have one. And i know its not me; OK?

What you think you know, you do not know.

It is you. Others play the game using the same warmonger style, but they win and do so at much higher difficulty levels. Since you are not winning at the Warlord level, you are doing something that is seriously sub-optimal and probably more than one such thing.

There is nothing wrong with this if you are having fun. If you are not having fun due to increasing levels of frustration at not being able to win, then you should make some changes to what you are doing.

You should look at how other people play the game. There are a couple of places where you can see what people do when they play the game. TheMeInTeam has some videos up on YouTube (that I've never watched, but they are supposed to be pretty good). There are games played out with explanations of what is done and why over in both the "Civ 4 - Civ4 - Strategy & Tips" forum and the "Civ4 - Succession Games" subforum of the "Civ4 - Stories & Tales" forum. Go and read through some of those games to see the sort of thing you should be doing.

 

[6K Man]

Straight fighting won't work all that often unless you have a very good strategic plan and stick to it. You may not be experienced enough to make that work.

1. Workers
2. Cottages
3. City specialization

Those 3 things will get you wins up to Noble at least.

 

[conception]

I always thought one of the merits of Civ as a game was that the difficulty levels were scaled so that the game is easily winnable on lower levels to beginners who might not be able to understand all the intricate features of the game. But even as difficulty levels increase, there are different paths to victory that don't necessarily require a keen understanding of every feature involved either.

Obviously you are having some trouble, but you can easily start to win some games if you start to pay more attention to diplomacy and the AI around you. Even at lower levels, you will want to try and keep a certain number of AI happy and friends with you. Sometimes it's worth it to suck it up and give in to an AI demand if you want that AI to be friends with you. Also, open borders go a long way to setting up friends even if it does nothing to help you with those who seem pre-disposed to hating you. Playing the conquerer mentality, as you seem to be doing, is about the easiest way to win, but even if you are planning on taking over everybody, you want as many friends to be working with you for as long as possible. Sometimes proximity dictates that you will want to take over a certain civ, but at other times you may want to go to war with the guy that other people hate.

You seem to get frustrated that the AI won't join your wars. A couple words of wisdom here, first of all remember that each AI has its own personality. Ghandi may hate someone to death, but good luck getting him to declare war. Other leaders have similar personalities and you have to figure out which is which. But perhaps the best way to get the AI to join you in war is to join them instead. Try bribing them to go to war with somebody before you go to war. Then, they will ask you to join and you get a relationship bonus for the war and for helping them out. You can even bribe an AI to go to war with a distant civ who is little threat to your own civ at that point. They will ask you to join in the war, and you usually can safely even if engaged in another war. After a couple turns, they will make peace. Finally, if you're well on your way to conquering somebody, there are many times when they will accept capitulation, making them your vassal. They are bound to fight in your wars, which can be beneficial if you leave their civ homelands in good shape, and it takes much less time than taking over their entire empire. Usually, aiming for a couple key cities in your initial strike, such as their capitol, will get the job done. When they have capitulated, you can reform your armies and be ready to attack somebody else quickly.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Maybe its me... and some of you may say, Claudius... you're an idiot. But- here it is; i'm just gonna lay it down for you: I've been playing this #*#*# game for XXX number of times and I have NEVER won. Okay... some will say, oh for me, its so easy... i just do this and that- BS!.

I play BTS at Warlord level doing a normal build and fight strategy- no diplomtatic, cultural, spacehip BS win- just straight fighting- and i NEVER have one. And i know its not me; OK?

The game is seriously out of balance. If you just fight... the game generates an insane number of units; And eventually all nations gang up against you. Now- some may say- ohh just do a diplomacy this and that; or a defensive pact- It Doesn't Work!!!!! Which Sucks!!!!!

Why can't the game behave with its alliances a little more realistically? Why is it so hard to get another nation to join in a war against an enemy. For example, I'm on good terms with another nation, and an enemy of both is kicking my butt, But i still can't get any nation, to join in a war. And even friendly countries end up turning against you. I dunno... this games broken; but still frustratingly, i still play it. But with the same frustrating, losing result. I hate this game; and i love this game. Please fix it and bring on Civ V.

Thank You for listening to my diatribal, dribbly complaining.
Claudius

It's pretty fun to post a bunch of false claims about game mechanics and the fault of the player, isn't it?

On warlord it should be easy enough to win even with "always war" checked (where the AI gangs up on you from turn 0 and stays at war no matter what). If you are improving your land, expanding, and researching properly most levels should feel like a cakewalk...certainly ones where the GAME SPOTS YOU A HANDICAP STILL!

I'll be a little nicer if you make an effort to improve rather than just attacking the game and those who reply (in advance!).

 

[cdcuase]

Game can't be broken as so many players are capable of beating it at levels harder than warlord. Forum posts attest to that. And they aren't cheating.

You have to face the fact that your game playing style is fundamentally broken at some level. I used to have trouble winning Noble games but after reading this forum, hearing other people's advice, and pinpointing exactly what I was doing wrong I can now win 95% of my games on Noble and have moved onto trying to master Prince.

One tip I can give you is to ALWAYS check your power rating. Civ's won't attack you if they see you have a higher rating than they do (unless they're insane like Monty, heh). Even a friendly civ will declare war if they detect your power rating is low enough. Situations like you described where all civs eventually gang up on you can be avoided by simply paying attention to your troop count.

 

[Ghpstage]

One tip I can give you is to ALWAYS check your power rating. Civ's won't attack you if they see you have a higher rating than they do (unless they're insane like Monty, heh).
...Situations like you described where all civs eventually gang up on you can be avoided by simply paying attention to your troop count.

Power rating is an extremely inneffective way to prevent DoWs, unless your power is considerably higher than an AIs it can still declare and won't even deter them in the slightest, and if your already at war the amount of power you need to prevent a dogpile skyrockets. Using power to prevent DoWs is something that can only really be relied on at lower difficulties

Even a friendly civ will declare war if they detect your power rating is low enough.

Not true, many leaders cannot declare once you reach Pleased, and none can declare at Friendly except for Cathy who can be bribed.
Diplomacy beats using pure power to prevent DoWs by a large argin, on higher levels it simply isn't possible to build up an army large enough to prevent DoWs early on.

 

[Yared]

Post a save.

 

[Artful]

Claudius, I have to agree with the others; it is you, but it is fixable, if you change the way you've been playing by incorporating the lessons you'll get in these forums.
You didn't mention how you've been doing on technology - are you ahead or behind the others? You can often get other civs to join in a war if you bribe them with some technologies they want. If you aren't well ahead in tech on this level then you need to put more attention into your research, before going to war.

 

[Baldyr]

claudius888, you don't know your game. Civilization is not really a war game to begin with, but it can of course be played in a aggressive manner. This doesn't mean that you can neglect the other aspects of the game. There is no way you can win a conquest victory without the production and the science to do so. It will still be extremely hard to do so without playing the diplomacy game, and without paying any attention to your culture and your economy. Civ is a strategy game, if you're looking for a pure war game, look elsewhere.

If you still wanna keep playing, you need to study the game. Then, start off with just one opponent. After you've beaten him, start a new game with two or three opponents. After that, rise the difficulty level. Then, try a more "normal" game with many opponents. Rise the difficulty level, and so on.

All the knowledge you need to beat the game is readily available to you on this site. Check out the War Academy.

 

[Sisiutil]

Claudius--just to add a little to what everyone else as said (which I pretty much agree with): you may be coming to Civ from other, similar games which have a bigger emphasis on war, where everything you do is for the purpose of warmongering.

You can play Civ that way, but even so, you will have to balance things out. Keep in mind that the game was designed so that if you don't want to be a warmonger, you don't have to; in fact, it has been proven that you can win this game without building a single military unit.

What this means is that there are these other elements to the game, such as diplomacy, economy, religion, and so on. Even if you're playing with an emphasis on one facet of the game--such as war--you can't ignore these other things. That complexity is, frankly, a big part of the appeal of the game to most of its players. Either it will appeal to you, and add to your enjoyment of the game, or it won't.

At this point I'll add my voice to the chorus and urge you to check out the articles in the War Academy. You might want to start with a couple of mine (links in my sig)--the Beginners' Guide, for one, and if you want to warmonger, have a look at my Early Rush guide. And have fun!

 

[6K Man]

This thread sounds like a porn title.

 

[kochman]

This thread sounds like a porn title.

Staring Catherine the Great and Louis XIV

 

[zellfaze]

Staring Catherine the Great and Louis XIV

Wonder if that will make it into the 1000 ways you know you play too much Civ.

 

[Yared]

No, Louis XIV is the director. Shaka is the male actor...

Anyway, is there even a need for this thread to be up any more?

@Thread Maker: Next time something goes wrong, post a save of it here on CFC. /thread

 

[claudius888]

Hey All,

Thanks for all of the helpful tips.... i know its me. I need to get Eductated i guess.

Thanks