Too many resourses via trade routes (BERT)

[Evgenij]

I did alliance with AI, sent a couple of trade routes (AI did the same) and I ended having 50+ resource of every type (having 1-10 before this alliance). This completely breaks "strategic" part about those resource - since they are basically unlimited once you form an alliance. There is now no need to capture/fight for specific territory to gain more resources.

I think the main problem is that resources via trade route are created out of thin air. If you had like 1 Floatstone, and your partner also have 1 Floatstone, then you can create 10 trade routes between your cities, each giving you and your ally +3 float stone (6 in total) per trade route, increasing resource availability by xx times more than what is available on map.

Hope they fix it. Previous system where you could trade them for other strategic resources (or for energy/science/cities/peace/war) was much better.


Also: units that utilize strategic resources should be much better (either by strength, production cost or both) than normal units. You can pretty much win a war without any strategic resources against opponent who has lots of them. Currently I only get strategic resources for wonders and satellites. I never had a situation where it was like "oh, I need to capture this resource before starting a war".

 

[Lucius_]

I do miss the old days of "the poor man's army" that would happen if you don't have iron. It completely changed how you war. This happens in BE with Battlesuits, but their window of usefulness is small and the other affinities don't have requirements iirc.

And more on topic, yeah strategics are just, well not so strategic when you have a near unlimited supply.

 

[omniclast]

I pretty much hate the new strat resource trade route system. Not only does it make resource requirements totally irrelevant (except for floatstone, where the heck is it?), but it makes the trade routes queue a b%$&^ to navigate... each route takes up half the damn screen.

Feels like another corner that was cut as a result of the bizarre insistence on cutting out the trade deal screen.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I think it is an interesting idea, but it should be an Option

ie
send trade route to Cooperating Foreign city X with locally improve source of Titanium and Xenomass

You can Either get
Science+energy
OR
Titanium (not counting as local to the new city)
OR
Xenomass (not counting as local to the new city)

(the other side still get the same science and energy... you don't get any strat resources from routes sent To you)

Maybe it also adds 2 resource to you but deducts 1 of theirs, and it isn't available if their 'still available' resources are less then the 'traded' resources they are losing. (that way once they decide to go down to 0 available, you can't renew the strategic trade routes)

 

[Lanth]

It means geothermal is almost completely worthless now. Previously you could at least use it as a trading chit to try and get something useful. But now it just get it 'free' anyway.

In the game I just finished, I ended up with 50+ of each resource. I didn't have *any* international trade routes, this was purely from the AIs trading with me. I built 0 xenomass wells (did conquer a few eventually), and only got about 15 firaxite through mines I'd built, and about 20-25 floatstone (I was purity).

 

[Amrunril]

Another issue with strategic resources from trade routes is that they fluctuate a lot more than those from specific agreements did. This makes it difficult to plan what units and buildings you can afford to construct (and I don't think the UI shows a separate count of resources from trade routes vs. cities).

It means geothermal is almost completely worthless now. Previously you could at least use it as a trading chit to try and get something useful. But now it just get it 'free' anyway.

This isn't a new issue, it's an old one made more obvious- if the only use for a resource is selling it to dumb AIs that aren't actually going to use it for anything, there's clearly an underlying problem with that resource.

 

[Halcyon 7]

I have to heavily agree. Way too many strategic resoucres going around in RT and the construction of buildings that require improved resoures w/o them bit is even worse.

Maybe they could return trading in the conventional sense with co-op and allie relationship levels; with ally getting a slight bonus on the transactions or something as allied comes with a such a potental pricetag.

I have yet to see a game in which I take allies not result in some DoW at some point.

 

[Halcyon 7]

Kritkittwo's ideas are compelling. Not counting as local source is huge. Although the 2:1 idea seems like it would be kind of a hostile act, allowing a strat to delplete a player of a particular resource at critical points, so not so sure about that part. I certainly wouldn't want the other players having the option to sap my resources at a whim with no imput on my part.

What about something like 10% of available strategics at Co-op and 20% at Ally and just remove it from trade routes all together with no impact on local resources and no benifit if there is no surplus.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Kritkittwo's ideas are compelling. Not counting as local source is huge. Although the 2:1 idea seems like it would be kind of a hostile act, allowing a strat to delplete a player of a particular resource at critical points, so not so sure about that part. I certainly wouldn't want the other players having the option to sap my resources at a whim with no imput on my part.

Well the 2:1 would always maintain ability for the source to cut it off (using it themselves) But they could do that anyways by going neutral.

I realized it would be simpler if it was just 1 'free' resource provided per trade route, but the numer of trade routes giving 'free' resources away could never exceed the number of excess resources they had.

That way resources from your own empire can always be used for your stuff. Excess ones are the only ones that other people can access...if you want to build someting your partners wont be able to renew those trade routes.

 

[Halcyon 7]

I see what your saying, both ideas are still inflating available resources (even if only temporarally) rather than making them change hands....Tricky problem with the current mechanics...They have to get rid of the removal of the local reqs. thats for certain. It is really bumming me out, takes all the zest outta finding good land. Why bother to come outta the farm belt/hill country when you will have everything for free and no prereqs on construction...

I don't see a way to trade them via the trade route system that won't inflate the available amount that wouldn't have the potential to comprimise you as you have no say on what routes to accept outside of lowering relationship levels. Also wonder if the flucuating levels of resources is geeking up the AI in how it is approaching it's strat. AI certainly doesn't need any help being confused.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Well the 2:1 would always maintain ability for the source to cut it off (using it themselves) But they could do that anyways by going neutral.

On the other hand, that'd provide a good incentive to use resources instead of hoarding them and creates a somewhat more dynamic game.

If strategic resource trade is limited to good relations, you also can downgrade your relationship to regain them.

Ultimately, as long as there is some cap on how many resources are created and they're no longer counted as locally accessible, they'd be okay. The rest is just making the system "neater".

 

[Ryika]

My personal version of what I'd like to see:

- Limit Trade Route range
- Make it so only cities that have at least X (9?) Local Quantity of a Resource grant that Resource in Trade
- Only 1 Trade Route (per Player) sent to a specific City will grant Resources
- Maintain the "Resources from Trade Routes count as local Resources"-System
- Make it more visible how many Resources you're getting from Trade Routes

Why? Simply because of the options this gives the player. Do I want to forfeit good yields for that Resource? Will it allow me to construct that Building that I wouldn't have been able to construct otherwise? Is that even worth it? etc.