Touhou Project Civ (Tengu Republic)

So don't name them after Gensokyo locations! Name them after types of oni in Japanese myth, or demons from Solomon's Key, or famous breweries.

And for Moriya Shrine, I would name cities after either famous Shinto temples, or broader Shinto concepts.
 
Well, time to defend myself.

Okay, I played some as the Sakuya civ and as this civ, with the other in the game, and... they're pretty rough. The Newspaper Delivery UU doesn't work right, allowing every other civ in the game to build it and Great Prophets, and their names all display, like, "Bunbunmaru Herald (Newspaper Delivery) (Tengu Newspaper Delivery)" or something close to that.

It's a fact that the Newspaper Delivery doesn't work right, I know that, but I can't do anything until someone comes up with an idea to replace religious units of only 1 civilization. The quick answer would be changing the UU to something else, it isn't that hard, but I'd prefer trying to fix the GP instead of going the easy way. About the names, they are based in worldwide newspapers, not some random name i might have thought of.

Their ability is strictly better than Montezuma's, but Montezuma may have been underpowered, so I'll hold off on saying if it's balanced. I'm not that sure if it feels... Aya-ey.

Aya-ey? The Tengu live in youkai "mountain", and some can fly, so it's obvious they'd have less trouble moving through hills. I can't think of anything "Aya-eyish" that isn't a simple culture bonus or great artist bonus which for me (and for the record, I don't make the mods for subscribers or anything, I make it for my gameplay experience and upload them just because) it's boring.

I DO know that making the leap from newspapers to faith doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially as a Touhou civ, when there's probably going to be other Touhou leaders dealing with faith as actual faith, like Shikieki or Toyastomi or Kanako or Byakuren, so their Newspaper Delivery UU doesn't make sense.

It's about spreading something. The objective of a newspaper is getting people to read it (sometimes even more than providing valuable information), so spreading it like faith, people giving more credit to Aya's newspaper than a belief, I don't find it wrong at all.

It also doesn't seem necessary, as I have never seen a Great Prophet fail to convert a city's religion with one spread attempt (even if it's a size-48 Rabanastre with 47 followers of my state religion), so a "stronger, less uses" Prophet just seems like a downgrade.

I agree on that one, I focused on numeric values more than how it really plays, I might change it later, but the moving bonus can give it a reason to have less uses.

The dialogue and DOM screen have a LOT of typos and weird sentence construction. I feel like you're missing a lot of commas.

I'm not a native English speaker so I'm not surprised, if you could help in that area I'd be grateful.

The DOM screen speech also doesn't fit the pattern of the others, and it doesn't really tell the player about the civ they are going to play, and the way it's written like half a conversation is just... awkward.

Like I said, the priority of this mod was my personal entertainment. I never even thought of comparing it to other civs, and I had it almost ready before I realized there was someone other than Graan uploading Touhou mods. The DOM speech is changeable though. "Awkward", that's like, your opinion man.

And why doesn't Aya have a semi-abstracted symbol like the other civs?

Because honestly, I don't have a single clue about how to do it


And with your city names, you obviously tried to go with naming the cities after tengu-relevant locations, but that doesn't really work. It's repetitive to have a good proportion of your cities named "Tengu Something", makes it harder to remember which is which when you get a pop-up message, and it just doesn't look right.

First, that's like, your opinion man. I honestly don't like something that might be unknown (imagine someone doesn't know Prypyart, or however it's writen) so I decided to give them simple names like those, as always, for me to enjoy.

In my mods and in Graan's Scarlet Estate mod

I never intended that my mods live up to Graan's or yours.

, cities are named on a theme: The Estate cities start with a couple of spell cards and Voile, then they're named after stars and red things, so there's the cities of "Carnelian" and "Aldeberan" instead of something like "Scarlet Ballroom" and "Scarlet Garden". The Fairy Alliance cities are each named by a Team 9 member or generic fairy. The Palace of Earth Spirits' cities are all named after atomic disaster sites or other radiation-related locations. You could have Aya name cities after famous journalists, or species of corvid, or something like that, and there'd be more variety and make it easier to come up with.

Perfectly valid opinion, I might consider it, but I don't really share it.

I don't wanna sound like I'm just busting your balls or anything, like I just care about pointing out flaws. I do think the mod is worth working on, but I think it does need work.

I'm sure you have the best of intentions (or at least I hope so) and I appreciate suggestions, but no way I'm going to change EVERYTHING just because there is something wrong with text or someone didn't like the city naming. I'll do my best to fix everything I consider important. Pointing flaws is easy, fixing them is quite the contrary, so I'd appreciate help in this thing. Just bear in mind that you make your mods for your reasons (that might be anything, I don't know) and I make my mods for my reasons.

I'm sorry if I sounded witty or aggressive in any response, It isn't my intention to condemn you for pointing out flaws and giving opinions about my work.
 
So don't name them after Gensokyo locations! Name them after types of oni in Japanese myth, or demons from Solomon's Key, or famous breweries.

And for Moriya Shrine, I would name cities after either famous Shinto temples, or broader Shinto concepts.

Well, I put together enough city names for the Oni for now, so we'll just have to see. Any feedback is welcome once I post the mod properly, though! :3

As for the Moriya Shrine... naming it after shrines is a rather good idea, particularly since I think the Suwa site itself has four different shrines in the area, and it's the most likely group to go naming cities after Shinto shrines. (I presume Byakuren and Toyosatomimi would presumably use sites from their own faiths...?)
 
It's a fact that the Newspaper Delivery doesn't work right, I know that, but I can't do anything until someone comes up with an idea to replace religious units of only 1 civilization. The quick answer would be changing the UU to something else, it isn't that hard, but I'd prefer trying to fix the GP instead of going the easy way. About the names, they are based in worldwide newspapers, not some random name i might have thought of.
The problem wasn't that the names were based in worldwide newspapers, but that it displays the unit name of "Newspaper Delivery" twice.

Aya-ey? The Tengu live in youkai "mountain", and some can fly, so it's obvious they'd have less trouble moving through hills. I can't think of anything "Aya-eyish" that isn't a simple culture bonus or great artist bonus which for me (and for the record, I don't make the mods for subscribers or anything, I make it for my gameplay experience and upload them just because) it's boring.
Well, 150% of Montezuma's bonus and half of Pachacuti's bonus does seem like kind of overkill without a drawback.

When you make an ability for a civ based on an existing property like Touhou, there's two ways to go about it (as I see it): what kind of civ ability directly reflects the ability of this character or group, and what kind of civ ability would encourage you to act like this character or group acts? Ideally, if you do the first one it leads to the second one. Cirno's ability was made in the first method, and Okuu's was the second, but Cirno's still encourages you to behave like fairies (jump into challenges by flooding the sky with danmaku, but getting bored or distracted if it goes on too long and wandering off to do something else).

So, Aya's ability is justifiable, but, I feel like it doesn't encourage me to act like Aya, if that makes sense. What if you actually increased the Culture she got from kills, but gave her a penalty to discourage conquest, like "double unhappiness from occupied cities" or a global penalty to combat against cities? Then the ability is still "making culture by starting fights and taking pictures of it", but the ability encourages you to fight solely for the purpose of making news, not to conquer things. Does that make sense?

I'm not a native English speaker so I'm not surprised, if you could help in that area I'd be grateful.
Sure, I can do that. I have lots of time on my hands.

EDIT: ...if the god damn mod will download! When you updated, the old mod folder was deleted from my computer, but it won't make a new one and download it. I have no idea if the problem is on my end, your end, or Steam's end.
 
When you make an ability for a civ based on an existing property like Touhou, there's two ways to go about it (as I see it): what kind of civ ability directly reflects the ability of this character or group, and what kind of civ ability would encourage you to act like this character or group acts? Ideally, if you do the first one it leads to the second one. Cirno's ability was made in the first method, and Okuu's was the second, but Cirno's still encourages you to behave like fairies (jump into challenges by flooding the sky with danmaku, but getting bored or distracted if it goes on too long and wandering off to do something else).

So, Aya's ability is justifiable, but, I feel like it doesn't encourage me to act like Aya, if that makes sense. What if you actually increased the Culture she got from kills, but gave her a penalty to discourage conquest, like "double unhappiness from occupied cities" or a global penalty to combat against cities? Then the ability is still "making culture by starting fights and taking pictures of it", but the ability encourages you to fight solely for the purpose of making news, not to conquer things. Does that make sense?

For me, I suppose I usually end up trying to think of what kind of the character of the group I'm trying to represent, and how I can generate an interesting playstyle that supports that? It's kind of hard to summarize...

With the Oni, they were most notable for going out and challenging humans and abducting them, so I built most of their playstyle around being militarily aggressive. The Brewery helps you build new units and makes them better (while having the potential for increased gold to help pay for things), the UA helps them survive combat while referencing the whole kidnapping thing, and the UU helps them in combat while simultaneously terrorizing enemies. I'm hoping that it'll all create an aggressive playstyle that reflects having a bunch of oni on your borders constantly harassing you.

For the Tengu, after reading up about them more I was intruiged with how they do have an entire civilization going, with various castes and social roles. There's merchants and soldiers and scholars (and, of course, journalists like Aya). With characters like Momiji being tengu as well, I wanted to do something more than just a journalism emphasis (although my UB was going to be a Newspaper Office), so for the UA I was planning to give them the increased sight range the Americans have, as well as probably some sort of espionage bonus, and the UU was going to be an improved Scout, so that the Tengu would ultimately be very aware and knowledgeable about what was going on around the world. Ideally, for me, they'd be able to be prepared for any armies advancing on their borders, finding city states first, and winning in the espionage arena.

With the Moriya Shrine, I'm currently looking towards starting them with a Pantheon as a UA, and giving it corresponding beliefs to help them out, although it'll probably demand Lua coding and might be tricky. But the big things for the Moriya Shrine are faith and science, so I'm hoping to find some way to encourage Moriya players to build up lots of faith, and then have ways to spend that on scientific things...

That's the way my mind works, at least. Everyone has their own approach, though...
 
When you make an ability for a civ based on an existing property like Touhou, there's two ways to go about it (as I see it): what kind of civ ability directly reflects the ability of this character or group, and what kind of civ ability would encourage you to act like this character or group acts? Ideally, if you do the first one it leads to the second one. Cirno's ability was made in the first method, and Okuu's was the second, but Cirno's still encourages you to behave like fairies (jump into challenges by flooding the sky with danmaku, but getting bored or distracted if it goes on too long and wandering off to do something else).

... what? Honestly I don't get your way of seeing this civilizations, but it sounds interesting. I will try that on future mods.

So, Aya's ability is justifiable, but, I feel like it doesn't encourage me to act like Aya, if that makes sense. What if you actually increased the Culture she got from kills, but gave her a penalty to discourage conquest, like "double unhappiness from occupied cities" or a global penalty to combat against cities? Then the ability is still "making culture by starting fights and taking pictures of it", but the ability encourages you to fight solely for the purpose of making news, not to conquer things. Does that make sense?

I never thought about penalty... good idea... good idea.


EDIT: ...if the god damn mod will download! When you updated, the old mod folder was deleted from my computer, but it won't make a new one and download it. I have no idea if the problem is on my end, your end, or Steam's end.

I know that feel bro, it's steam's fault, but you can work around it by deleting the mod cache file.

I'm surprised that you didn't mention Sakuya's civ, I don't know if you find nothing importantly worng with it, or it needs a ****LOAD OF WORK, cause i'd bet on the second option.

I'm starting to get the charm of city names, once I get home I'll tweak the mod and reupload it to steam.

I'd be gratefull for your help in the DOM and civclopedia text. I might add you to steam later so we can keep in touch. :goodjob:
 
For the Tengu, after reading up about them more I was intruiged with how they do have an entire civilization going, with various castes and social roles. There's merchants and soldiers and scholars (and, of course, journalists like Aya). With characters like Momiji being tengu as well, I wanted to do something more than just a journalism emphasis (although my UB was going to be a Newspaper Office), so for the UA I was planning to give them the increased sight range the Americans have, as well as probably some sort of espionage bonus, and the UU was going to be an improved Scout, so that the Tengu would ultimately be very aware and knowledgeable about what was going on around the world. Ideally, for me, they'd be able to be prepared for any armies advancing on their borders, finding city states first, and winning in the espionage arena.

I thought the exact same thing, if you played my mod you'll noticed I already applied some of what you say (the UU, civclopedia text, UA for hills), not just aya, but since she's the leader it would be highly likely that she would put Tenma's orders in second place and prioritize the newspaper (that's my opinion though).

Seems this thread is kind of becoming a discussion one :D

How about giving the oni an easier time capturing cities, like, scaring the population so they behave...
 
For the Tengu, after reading up about them more I was intruiged with how they do have an entire civilization going, with various castes and social roles. There's merchants and soldiers and scholars (and, of course, journalists like Aya). With characters like Momiji being tengu as well, I wanted to do something more than just a journalism emphasis (although my UB was going to be a Newspaper Office), so for the UA I was planning to give them the increased sight range the Americans have, as well as probably some sort of espionage bonus, and the UU was going to be an improved Scout, so that the Tengu would ultimately be very aware and knowledgeable about what was going on around the world. Ideally, for me, they'd be able to be prepared for any armies advancing on their borders, finding city states first, and winning in the espionage arena.
Well, you said you might still make your own Tengu civ, right? Maybe this one can be the Bunbunmaru civ, focusing just on being like Aya, and you can be the whole general Tengu civ.

I'm surprised that you didn't mention Sakuya's civ, I don't know if you find nothing importantly worng with it, or it needs a ****LOAD OF WORK, cause i'd bet on the second option.
Yeah, Sakuya needs work too, but I didn't really focus on her because I figured that mod was more for you to learn how to make and publish a mod than it was about providing a complete civ experience.
 
I thought the exact same thing, if you played my mod you'll noticed I already applied some of what you say (the UU, civclopedia text, UA for hills), not just aya, but since she's the leader it would be highly likely that she would put Tenma's orders in second place and prioritize the newspaper (that's my opinion though).

Seems this thread is kind of becoming a discussion one :D

How about giving the oni an easier time capturing cities, like, scaring the population so they behave...

Yeah, I haven't had a chance to play your mod yet myself (which is why I've largely tried to refrain from making any comments on it), as it tends to be tough for me to get Civ time on weekdays. This weekend I'm going to make time for Civ, but it'll largely be focused on getting the Oni civ tidied up to post here. Still, if I get the chance I'll take a look. :3

If you guys want, I can start up a thread in the main discussion forums for Touhou discussion, so we don't sidetrack this thread too much. :P

In fact, I think I'll go do that anyways...

Well, you said you might still make your own Tengu civ, right? Maybe this one can be the Bunbunmaru civ, focusing just on being like Aya, and you can be the whole general Tengu civ.

Since I was planning to use Lord Tenma, it would probably work... if the Moriya Shrine looks to be Lua-heavy, it might be something to work on while I learn Lua. X3
 
2.0 baby :dance:

I reuploaded the mod to the workshop as v2, you'll have to find it in my workshop files, because steam is somehow not showing it in recent mods. About the changes I made:

- Changed the color scheme (it's black and white now, like a newsprint!)
- Changed the city names (they are basically names or surnames of important journalists)
- Changed the UU from a religious one (type of unit which it's probably better off untouched) for a melee unit called White Wolf Tengu, replacing the longswordman.
- Added a -15% city attack penalty to the Trait (perhaps the penalty should be higher, i don't know)
- Changed the DOM text to something more "civ-ish"

Well, that's about it. I'm grateful for the feedback on this mod, as you see I listened to Huitzil suggestions. If you find anything else I should worry about, don't hesitate to comment.
 
When you upgrade, you don't have to upload it as a new mod -- there's an option in the "Steam Workshop" tab to select the mods you have uploaded, and then you can hit "Upload A New Version". Then, everyone who already subscribed will get the update automatically.
 
I like the new color scheme, DOM text, and city names MUCH better, thank you. I'll still go over the XML dialogue file for punctuation and stuff, I will probably have it ready by Friday.

Other than the need for a civ icon / alpha logo, which you already know about, my only other complaint is that their preferred religion is set to Hinduism instead of Tengriism. Because, come on, the symbol looks like a bird and it is THIS CLOSE to "tenguuism". :-p
 
When you upgrade, you don't have to upload it as a new mod -- there's an option in the "Steam Workshop" tab to select the mods you have uploaded, and then you can hit "Upload A New Version". Then, everyone who already subscribed will get the update automatically.

I kind of knew about that, but I wanted my mod to appear in the "most recent" part of the workshop, so people can see it again and know it changed. But seems steam shot me down:( by not making it appear (at least for me).
 
I like the new color scheme, DOM text, and city names MUCH better, thank you. I'll still go over the XML dialogue file for punctuation and stuff, I will probably have it ready by Friday.

Other than the need for a civ icon / alpha logo, which you already know about, my only other complaint is that their preferred religion is set to Hinduism instead of Tengriism. Because, come on, the symbol looks like a bird and it is THIS CLOSE to "tenguuism". :-p

Thank you pal:D. I don't pay much attention to religions (since it kind of doesn't matter what you choose, you still can choose the beliefs) and I didn't know about the existance of Tengriism, I'll change it once I get home.

Can you direct me to the tutorial you used for the icon/alpha logo? I don't have a single clue about how to proceed :crazyeye:.
 
Okay, I'm going through the XML, fixing punctuation and various phrasing stuff while keeping close to the main spirit of your words. Here's how I rewrote the DOM text and the civlopedia text; let me know if that kind of thing is okay or if you want me to be more strict in sticking to what you wrote and only correct punctuation and grammatical errors.

Spoiler :
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CIV_TENGU_DAWN_TEXT">
<Text>Greetings comrade Shameimaru, swift and intrepid reporter of fantasy. Yours is the honor of representing the tengu people.[NEWLINE][NEWLINE] Under the leadership of Tenma and the Great Tengu caste, the tengu became one of the most powerful and organized societies in the world of Gensokyo. The tengu are strong, intelligent, and above all: fast, making them a force to be reckoned with. Their homeland is the Youkai Mountain, standing tall and mighty for all of Gensokyo to see.[NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Comrade Aya Shameimaru, the tengu now look to you. Your speed, intelligence, and agility, proven by your ability to photograph the most dangerous of danmaku patterns, will now be tested as you become the next leader of the proud tengu people. Will you be able to satisfy them? Will you be able to uphold Tenma's legacy, fostering a society to equal or exceed that made by the great Tengu Boss -- and work on your infamous newspaper at the same time? Will you build a civilization that can stand the test of time above all others?</Text>
</Row>


Spoiler :
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CIV5_TENGU_TEXT_1">
<Text>The Tengu Republic represents all tengu living on Youkai Mountain, and is one of the most organized groups in Gensokyo. It is made up of several different types of tengu: beneath the Tengu Boss Tenma are the Great Tengu administrators, Crow Tengu scouts, Long-Nose Tengu merchants, White Wolf Tengu warriors, and Yamabushi Tengu monks, all of whom work together with a strong sense of community and order. [NEWLINE][NEWLINE] The tengu are fast, strong, and courageous, and cannot be swayed or scared easily. Also, they spread rumors very quickly, so don't be surprised when some other leader looks at you and starts giggling.</Text>
</Row>
 
Okay, I'm going through the XML, fixing punctuation and various phrasing stuff while keeping close to the main spirit of your words. Here's how I rewrote the DOM text and the civlopedia text; let me know if that kind of thing is okay or if you want me to be more strict in sticking to what you wrote and only correct punctuation and grammatical errors.

Honestly, Huitzil, you seem to be great at this sort of thing -- I particularly like the Tengu Republic text (it's probably better than what I would've written for it!). I hope I can get your feedback on that stuff when I get the Onis up this weekend!
 
Okay, I'm going through the XML, fixing punctuation and various phrasing stuff while keeping close to the main spirit of your words. Here's how I rewrote the DOM text and the civlopedia text; let me know if that kind of thing is okay or if you want me to be more strict in sticking to what you wrote and only correct punctuation and grammatical errors.

Spoiler :
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CIV_TENGU_DAWN_TEXT">
<Text>Greetings comrade Shameimaru, swift and intrepid reporter of fantasy. Yours is the honor of representing the tengu people.[NEWLINE][NEWLINE] Under the leadership of Tenma and the Great Tengu caste, the tengu became one of the most powerful and organized societies in the world of Gensokyo. The tengu are strong, intelligent, and above all: fast, making them a force to be reckoned with. Their homeland is the Youkai Mountain, standing tall and mighty for all of Gensokyo to see.[NEWLINE][NEWLINE]Comrade Aya Shameimaru, the tengu now look to you. Your speed, intelligence, and agility, proven by your ability to photograph the most dangerous of danmaku patterns, will now be tested as you become the next leader of the proud tengu people. Will you be able to satisfy them? Will you be able to uphold Tenma's legacy, fostering a society to equal or exceed that made by the great Tengu Boss -- and work on your infamous newspaper at the same time? Will you build a civilization that can stand the test of time above all others?</Text>
</Row>


Spoiler :
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CIV5_TENGU_TEXT_1">
<Text>The Tengu Republic represents all tengu living on Youkai Mountain, and is one of the most organized groups in Gensokyo. It is made up of several different types of tengu: beneath the Tengu Boss Tenma are the Great Tengu administrators, Crow Tengu scouts, Long-Nose Tengu merchants, White Wolf Tengu warriors, and Yamabushi Tengu monks, all of whom work together with a strong sense of community and order. [NEWLINE][NEWLINE] The tengu are fast, strong, and courageous, and cannot be swayed or scared easily. Also, they spread rumors very quickly, so don't be surprised when some other leader looks at you and starts giggling.</Text>
</Row>

Well... I must say I'm impressed, you have talent for this sort of thing (though it might be my lack of English vocabulary:p). Anyway, it looks great, as long as the rest are like that, keeping the structure I created and replacing certain words and phrases for something more coherent (or dramatic, like some of the DOM text :D), I will certainly add it to the mod. :goodjob: good job mate
 
Update on mod :thumbsup:

- Added Alpha Icons
- Changed religion to Tengriism

Keep up the good work! :cool:
 
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