Tower of Mastery Victory

[Imuratep]

Using dispel magic to build all of the towers feels almost like cheating to me. I know it's officially supposed to work that way, but it really takes out all of the challenge.

Jip, another way to do it without conquering a lot would be nice. Perhaps something for a modmod?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I prefer simply making the Tower of Mastery require all the mana types instead of just the lesser towers.

 

[Ribusprissin]

why not have an announcement when someone has 3 or 4 lesser towers, a la Altar of Luonnatar?

 

[Honor]

I prefer simply making the Tower of Mastery require all the mana types instead of just the lesser towers.

This is the best solution IMO.

Off topic: It would be great if ToM itself gave some benefit to the building civ as well, for those of us who turn tower victory off, but end up building the towers anyway.

 

[Ribusprissin]

But then it would be the Tower of Too Lazy to Domination Win. Right now it's the Tower of Having Built Other Towers With Interludes of Mucking About Erebus' Magic Supply, which to me sounds like arcane mastery.
Aside, by "all" are you including ice and sun?

 

[Emptiness]

Off topic: It would be great if ToM itself gave some benefit to the building civ as well, for those of us who turn tower victory off, but end up building the towers anyway.

I agree, and suggest that it should permanently prevent your opponents from using magic (to be in keeping with the SoM concept from MoM, where this idea originated).

Aside, by "all" are you including ice and sun?

Sun yes. Ice no. Metamagic no. They mean all the mana types you'd need to build all the towers simultaneously.

I prefer simply making the Tower of Mastery require all the mana types instead of just the lesser towers.

This is the best solution IMO.

But then it would be the Tower of Too Lazy to Domination Win. Right now it's the Tower of Having Built Other Towers With Interludes of Mucking About Erebus' Magic Supply, which to me sounds like arcane mastery.

I agree with Ribusprissin. I don't really see the ability to use Dispel Magic as a way to build the ToM with fewer nodes as a problem that needs to be solved. Those who feel uncomfortable with this method for some reason can still do it the "right" or "hard" way.

 

[Honor]

How about making the ToM require any combination of 6 different mana types rather than all 12?

(Yeah, I am bargaining )

 

[MagisterCultuum]

What do you mean "all 12" mana types? There are 21 mana types, 18 of which are actually represented in the game.

 

[Honor]

Oh sorry, should have been 8 and 16 respectively. I mean the mana types required to build the lesser towers.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I still prefer requiring all mana types, and making it give out the Channeling 3 promotion on move so that all your mages are essentially archmages.

 

[Rutee]

The idea of "More then 4, less then I think 18" may h ave some merit. Requiring all of them simultaneously (Indeed, how it used to be done" turned into a nigh-domination victory. At what.. 8? You'd still have to do SOME military expansion (Almost certainly anyway), but it wouldn't basically be "Domination, plus extra work".

 

[apotheoser]

I forget, does vanilla FfH2 have the project Rites of Oghma? It randomly places a bunch more nodes throughout the world, and you can perform it multiple times. It makes the ToM victory possible without (a) playing with "All Unique Features" enabled or (b) dominating the world or (c) using Dispel.

But I don't think Dispel is abusive. It seems like a legit way to get to ToM.

You could also make the AI smarter about ToM. When everyone auto-war decs you, they should do a better job of going after the sub-tower cities.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Vanilla FfH has Rites of Oghma, but it can only be used once there.

 

[zup]

I still feel one should need all those mana to build the tower of mastery. And I like the idea of channeling 3 for magi.

 

[Tasunke]

I like the idea (my idea) of giving the Kuriotates Dragon Disciples (arch mage half dragons) when they build the tower of mastery. That way, all other mages get channeling 3, while any living archmagi (usually 4, liches not allowed) will become flying, firebreathing strength 10 half-dragons

 

[Honor]

I wonder if it is possible to make a wonder available at a certain map size only. If that could be done, the requirements for ToM could be scaled with map size. On smaller maps, 4 mana types could be required, standard 8, and large+ maps could require all 16 for ToM to be built.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

That could be done with python, but otherwise would need some serious sdk changed.

 

[Emptiness]

That's a good idea.

 

[Tasunke]

IDK, I tend to think metamagic would almost be prerequisite for "mastering" magic. So I like the idea of metamagic assisting or helping those that need/ want to build the tower.

On another note, I REALLY miss the uber strong Maelstroms it was kinda like who moved first, but alot more complex. Basically, for those that dont know, it had the potential for 80% damage or so, but started out with 10 ior 15%, so with enough investment in magi you could have a universal tsunami ANYWHERE!! even if it were raised to tier 3, I still would love the maelstrom. I mean, we dont REALLY need strong Air elementals, their all pretty vanilla at this point anyways. So why not make a weaker airelemental with invisible for scouting, and have tier 3 be the previously UBER maelstrom?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I think that the tower should only be buildable when you both have the 4 towers and all the mana needed to build it. Period.
You should still be able to mana troll your way to geting the 4 towers them self, but once you get to the big one, you would have to get all the mana the fair way.