trade how? what is best

[Marik2000]

hi ho,

I playing Civ2 now for quite a time now and I am still have some questions about trade caravans.

I use loads of caravans 2 build my wonders and make trade routes to my chience city (and only the chience city) don't know if this is a good stratigy

I neglect the demand section of trade don't know if I bring the correct recources 2 the city has an advantage

I don't trade with other civs and I don't trade over seas. can some explain 2 me what the bonusses r if u trade over seas or with other civs. atm momnet I really think it has no point.

I try to start building caravans as early as possible! my second research milestone is trade ,after monargy... so I can get start building wonders early and rthen start making trade routes

okee thas is about it

 

[Rife]

Well, I doubt it is ideal, but that is what I do if it counts for
anything. Oh, it doesn't?

 

[Cilpot]

If u trade with other civs u get a larger sum of money when the route is established, and u get more trade pr. turn.

If u trade with civs on other continents the bonus increase, and if u offer resources that are demanded the bonus will increase even more..

Plain and simple

 

[Rife]

Not so plain and simple cause it is all a factor of the trade
produced by the two cities, so, simply trading with a foreign
city does nothing for you in itself. Now, for the initial bonus
distance is a factor, but for permanent bonus it is not.

Now you get a 50% penalty for it being domestic but if the trade in your SSC is more than 50% higher than the computer cities
then that is a wash. Next, you have the road connection bonus of
50%, and also a rail connection bonus of 50% which are decidedly
difficult to attain on a foreign continent.

So, what I am proposing is that it is not exactly as simple as
you made out. I am not an expert on what is ideal, but I
know it is not as simple as what you said

 

[Cilpot]

Thanx for clearifying this for me... You are of course right

I dont know why, but somehow I have always "known" that it was as simple as I said (have been playing civ since 1992).

However, I never bother about trade that much.. Maybe I should...

 

[Marik2000]

just some additions...

lets say I trade only with the city with the highest trade output... If I understand it correctly u get more trade arrows benifits by making a trade route... lets say I made 10 trade routes with that one city... but I only see 3 trade routes active in that city... where r the other 7 r they lost?

if soo u would only gain trade in the city where u caravan is from! normally u would gain twice that number of arrows! Soo I guess u would gain more trade if the start if u first make 3 trade routes in every city asap.... and when u have in every city 3 trade routes u can start trading with the science city...

I expect u will get mor etrade output if u trade with a foreigh city but it is more difficult to get u road/rail bonus.. but whta if if I make trad eroutes with only the coastal cities so that my carvan wouldn't use any foreigh roads.....

and another thing lets say I trade with a foreigh city.... and then concur the city... does the trade still counts a foreigh trade?

 

[Magnus]

Originally posted by Marik2000

and another thing lets say I trade with a foreigh city.... and then concur the city... does the trade still counts a foreigh trade?

NO. the trade route will be halved.

 

[SINISTER1974]

Cant believe you said trading with other civs isnt that important-lol -you must not play this game very well or to the fullest. Let me explain-trading with other civs at first is complete waste of time-but by the year 1600-1900-it is a very big deal-a city size of 12 trading with another city size 12 will maybe give u +5 or +6 trade--but a size 35-40 city trading with another city of same size will give you +10 to+25 trade----that is a lot-and having 30-50 cities and half that size---i does make a very big difference. And each city can support 3 caravan trade routes---ok--lets say 40 cities times 3=120 ---120 routes times and average of 10= 1200 trade per turn--thats just on average-i have tripled that if not more-----and best thing about trade routes is even if you go to war with that civ---u still get the $$$$$$$$$$$$ so trading is very important to any large civ---now if u isolate yourself until end of game then it doesnt really matter.:tank:
SINISTER

 

[Magnus]

Originally posted by SINISTER1974
...Let me explain-trading with other civs at first is complete waste of time...

gotta diagree there, I begin trading with everybody as soon as I get Trade and Marco Polo's - find out where everyone is and then get the caravans moving, the science boost puts everyone else in the dust relative to me, and the money buys the improvements I need and the increased trade allows me an easy switch to Republic then Democracy, then victory.

 

[Sodak]

Read this link for the complete description of what happens when you deliver a trade good:

Caravan Delivery Payoff

You get bonuses for:

• demanded good
• road/railroad/airport connection
• foreign destination city
• destination city on another continent
• various techs affect payoff

A city only retains 3 trade routes, but any subsequent routes can replace the old ones. Any caravan delivery gives you gold and science beakers, whether it is retained permanently by the city or not.

SINSITER1974, early trade is very important. You get far ahead in tech, and your game will be over by 1600-1900! Deliver hides to somebody in 2000bc, by 500ad that route may have given you 1000 arrows! Twice that by 1600. That's for just one city. Hardly a waste of time...

 

[el_kalkylus]

How many science beakers do you get from a caravan?

 

[SINISTER1974]

Dont know about you guys but bout time i get trade i am well ahead of my opponents. I was sticking up for trade not trying to smack talk it lol. First of all i trade once my cities are larger-which gives you more $$$$ and in begining i use my caravans to build my cities and wonders. Trade is good for both but i like to trade with my allies not future enemies-what is the point of trading with a civ your about to crush-then trade is halfed----well why have a trade route that is not worth half?? i pick and choose but yet when i do decide to trade i build a lot of caravans and set them out to trade. But also very hard to get caravans around the map early in game-but i will try not to trade with first civ i encounter-due to the fact that civ usually dies first-then how good is ur early trading lol-and im always ahead in tech---if you play the comp and arent ahead in tech and $$$$ then u need to practice them strats. Playing a human player is a little different but thats another area-----trade is good but trading now just to have your trade halfed by taking a city is not so good-pick and choose and always try to trade with civs far away---so in reality when i say i dont trade early and it is waste of time-im right on the money --not on the money if you like to have your trade route not do well. Its all up to the player realy
SINISTER
And when do u guys ever play mp games-lets play -this weekend

 

[Magnus]

Originally posted by el_kalkylus
How many science beakers do you get from a caravan?

You get as many science beakers as you get gold (but so does the receiving civ as well)

 

[el_kalkylus]

Originally posted by Magnus
You get as many science beakers as you get gold (but so does the receiving civ as well)

I see. And do you need 10 more science beakers for every advance you researched?

What is good to trade with? I heard hides give good trade route, what is the order in "goodness"? If someone knows a link to that information that would be really helpful.

Sinister1974, I agree. No point in trading a future enemy, but still you can get very good trade. Doesn't the traderoute double when you get to peace again?

 

[joespaniel]

For that very reason (helping a future enemy) I usualy only trade with my own cities.

Starting with the capitol, because that is almost always my center of scientific improvements, as soon as I develope Trade, I send caravans from cities that supply what the capitol demands, to my capitol.

Next are the cities with the most trade arrows, and potential for science/gold/luxuries. I meet their demands with other, less trade-important cities caravans.

By the time thats done, any city with less than 3 routes just 'wings' one at any other city in the same catagory, regardless of supply and demand (because I get sick of keeping track of all these damn caravans! ).

Its just one way to do it.

 

[Magnus]

Well, once I get Marco Polo's I look for the nearest 'perfectionist' civ that is on a different continent than me, and then try my damndest to form an alliance - as long as you are not stupid and keep talk with your ally to a minimum, you can pretty much maintain the alliance for the entire game. I trade with my ally and leave my warring to the rest of the other civs. Since I always play on a large map, I can get my empire sizeable enough to win without having to destroy my ally. Thus all my trade routes are of full value, and 'perfectionist' civs tend to like governments such as Republic and Democracy, which produce more trade arrows, and thus even better trade routes for me.

 

[Marik2000]

I will start tonight a new game and I will use a more micro economic view for trade.. .as I usually trade with science city... I think it should end up. I don't know but I don't know if it is possible 2 met the supply-demand chain in the start of the game... we will see..

and about trading with other civs... I still not convinced actually if I do that they will get loads of trade 2...

 

[Sodak]

SINISTER1974, early trade with yourself gives you a route in both cities! By waiting until your cities are large, you've wasted hundreds of arrows - the trade route value increases as your city grows, so your argument that you get more by waiting is misguided. Yes, you get more upon delivery, but it doesn't come close to how much you would have earned if you'd had the trade route for 40+ turns already.

I, too, always lead in tech. I don't bother trading with the enemy unless they are the only ones with the demand, and can be reached safely (by boat, usually). A destination city on another continent is well worth the voyage. If I happen to sack that city, big deal - both cities' arrows are mine then. The route's two values are halved, but I own both halves. Not what I would call a drawback!

Heavy early trade can land you on AC before 1000ad. Not delivering until 1600 sure can't do that.

 

[Sodak]

Originally posted by el_kalkylus
I see. And do you need 10 more science beakers for every advance you researched?

No. The cost in beakers increases as the game goes on. Your first techs cost 10, at the end of the game much more.

Check the link I provided above for details about what commodities give the best return. IIRC (this list is not likely to be accurate):
uranium is best (x4 bonus)
oil, gold next
silk, dye, gems, ...
cloth, coal, wine, ...
what remains give no bonus.

 

[el_kalkylus]

Thanks Sodak, sorry I didn't see that link before.

About the science, I know that you start to research your first advance with 10 beakers, and I think I read somewhere that the next advance costs 20 beakers etc. So every new advance cost 10 beakers extra. But that is wrong? Ok then. There must be a system, so that I can know how many beakers I need for next advance. I haven't been micromanaging too well with science because I don't know how it works.