[R&F] Trade routes and diplomatic visibility

[beorn]

Does anyone know for certain whether you gain added diplomatic knowledge/military advantage by starting a trade route, or by completing it such that you have created a trading post?

I ask because my reading of Genghis Khan Ortoo would strongly imply that it is normally when you complete the route and create a trading post -- that is why he is gaining an advantage by getting the boost immediately.

But in-game, it seems to me that I am seeing this advantage as soon as I begin the trade route.

 

[isau]

Here's a table showing all sources of diplomatic visibility.

You get +1 diplo visibility each from:

• The Printing tech
• Having a trade route
• Having a trading post (for most civs this means completing a route, for Ghengis it means starting one)
• Sending a delegate
• Being allies
• Sending a spy on the Listening Post mission
• Expending the great person Mary Katherine Goddard
• Having the Flying Squadron trait (i.e. being Cathy de Medici)

Kind of hilarious, but Mary Katherine Goddard in the hands of Genghis Khan is a weaponized threat! LOL.

 

[beorn]

Thanks. That explains what I have been seeing. It also means, if I understand correctly, that "having a trade route" is pointless for gaining military advantage, since the trade route is cancelled as soon as war is declared. So for military purposes, trade produces the trading post.

 

[isau]

Thanks. That explains what I have been seeing. It also means, if I understand correctly, that "having a trade route" is pointless for gaining military advantage, since the trade route is cancelled as soon as war is declared. So for military purposes, trade produces the trading post.

I haven't studied it too closely, but basically Mongolia gets x2 the normal Visibility from a Trading Post, probably precisely because you lose the Trader unit when war starts. The Trading Post bonus is strong too; I believe since Mongolia mentions getting +3 combat bonus from visibility, that this means ON TOP OF the +3 normal civs get, so the total comes out to 3 x 2 x 2, or +12. If so, this is actually outrageously strong and very difficult for other civs to match via Visibility from Trade units (they can get +3 from having a Trading Post, but only at the end of the Trader's cycle).

 

[liv]

Yes 12 is what I am seeing for the Mongols.

 

[civtrader6]

Has anyone tested what happens with different sources if visibility once you declare a war.
I've played a mongol game and it ranged from 0 to 12.

So, if I send a delegation and then declare war do I keep the bonus visibility?
Also, it seems if you have a trading post in city A - if you then capture the city your visibility with that civ seems to go down as well?
But if you have two trading posts in two cities - it seems to increase?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Here's a table showing all sources of diplomatic visibility.

View attachment 490282


You get +1 diplo visibility each from:

• The Printing tech
• Having a trade route
• Having a trading post (for most civs this means completing a route, for Ghengis it means starting one)
• Sending a delegate
• Being allies
• Sending a spy on the Listening Post mission
• Expending the great person Mary Katherine Goddard
• Having the Flying Squadron trait (i.e. being Cathy de Medici)

Kind of hilarious, but Mary Katherine Goddard in the hands of Genghis Khan is a weaponized threat! LOL.

The trade post +1 only works for Mongolia, for other civs no.