Trade routes through enemy teritory??

[nicuss]

I thought you couldn't trade with another civ if the only route to their capital went through enemy teritory, isn't that so? In my shot at the current GOTM I'm at war with the Chinese and can still trade luxuries with the French even though nobody has harbors and the only road to Paris goes right by the Chinese capital. What gives

 

[WillJ]

What has led you to believe or where have you heard that there must be a trade route that doesn't go through enemy land? This is news to me...

 

[nicuss]

In the manual, pages 140-141. And it has happened very often that trades with other civs were broken when they went to war with their neighbors, killing my rep in the process

 

[WillJ]

I read those pages and it did not say anything about trade routes not being able to go through enemy territory. It just said that there may not be any trade (of luxuries and resources, the two tradeable things that require trade routes) between civs who are at war.

 

[JuicyCivNewbie]

The rep damaging thing happens in loads of ridiculous situations - your resource runs out, your trading partners resource runs out, your trading partner loses thier resource in a war to another civ, etc. Notice how all these have nothing to do with your civ, and yet prospective trading partners who hear of this 'teachery' refuse to sign per-turn deals with you. Annoying to say the least.

AFAIK you can't trade through a civ you're at war with. They close the trade routes leading to your civ.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I've often had water trades cut off because of war. (When trade can only pass through coastal waters and your enemy controls all of the coastal tiles between you and the person you're trading with. This might be because of 1 ship sitting in the way, triggering a naval blockade). But I can't remember if land trading gets cut off or not.

 

[nicuss]

The last paragraph says another civ's capital must be included in your trade network in order to trade luxuries with them. A few paragraphs before that it says that roads within the teritory of a Civ that you are at war with are not in your trade network (can't be used for trade).

Another example I remember very well: during modern era I landed lots of tanks on the enemy continent and took only one coastal city. The city still had harbor in it when captured, but the luxuries and resources from home were not available. The only reason was that the culture of my enemy was so extended that it engulfed the 2 or 3 sea tiles my newly conquered city controlled. There were no eney ships or subs around. As soon as I built a library and it's culture grew it was able to "breathe" to one free ocen square and suddenly all my lux/resources were available. So everything within enemy borders is NOT supposed to be a trade route.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I looked at nicuss's save and there is no road that leads to France without going through China (who he is at war with). Nobody has harbors (even traded maps to make sure they were updated), and yet he still can trade with France.

JuicyCivNewbie, yes I've had that happen. Never trade with someone who is just about dead. If they lose their last harbor, the trade route gets cut and you get the blame.

One thing that happened to me (but this was actually my fault), was when I got silks from a captured city. Traded the silks, than lost the city to a culture flip. BIG TIME rep hit for me

 

[JuicyCivNewbie]

This must be a bug. I checked the save too, no route to France. Odd.

 

[Hades]

The instructions in the manual are so vague, you can only development from experience. I tried to stop an island civ from trading by capturing all harboured cities, but it still managed to get saltpeter from trading.

 

[Furry Spatula]

Yes land routes get cut off when you are at war with a civ. It was rather amusing. I was playing a pangea game but it turned out the continent was a giant "doughnut". And there wasn't a road all the way around. To make matters worse, I was almost at the end of one of the roads. So if I ever went to war with a civ a few of my trade routes got cut off. Mind you this didn't damage my rep as far as i could tell. But yes when you are at war roads going through enemy terriroty cannot be used for trade.

 

[Catt]

I don't have the game installed on this PC so I can't download to look at the saved game -- please forgive the assumptions and guesses below.

Is there any road / harbor network that connects nicuss' capital to the French capital without passing through China? You always have access to other civs trade networks so long as you're not at war with them -- so, if nicuss could trade with the Germans (assume they're in the game) and the Germans could trade with the French without going through Chinese territory, then nicuss' effective trade route is through Germany's access. This can become confusing when harbors (or lack thereof) and/or airports (or lack thereof) come into play, because we normally don't think of a German harbor as facilitating our trade with the French.

I have on a couple of different occasions wondered how in the heck I was still able to trade in certain circumstances, only to finally divine that I was using Civ A's harbor to get to Civ B's harbor on continent 2 and from there using Civ B's airport to connect back to my own continent through my trading partner's airport. Much more circuitous than a road / harbor net (or an airport in my civ would have been).

Could a very circuitous path through multiple peaceful civs be the solution?

 

[Bamspeedy]

No Catt. there are only 3 civs on that continent (Only 3 civs in the game from what I can tell). Absolutely nobody has harbors. I even signed peace with China and got there map. Got map from France. No roads from his Civ to France without going through China.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

I was starting to think I need a brain doctor when this happened to me - an enemy got resources they simply couldn't get.....

now I know why - BUG!!!!

Thanx niccuss for posting this

 

[Proteus]

Originally posted by Hades
The instructions in the manual are so vague, you can only development from experience. I tried to stop an island civ from trading by capturing all harboured cities, but it still managed to get saltpeter from trading.

Maybe they built a city on a Saltpeter Source?

I´ve had many occasions, where I wondered why the AI had access to a Ressource of which I thought I had the monopoly. In every occasion I found out, that they had just a city built directly above the Ressource (just Right-Click on the enemy cities and select "Show Terrain" to check it out)

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Proteus: just press Shift-Ctrl-M. This shows the 'nalked' terrain and makes it easy to spot resources even under cities.

 

[MAS]

Ok, so she's at war with Moa, but are YOU at ware with Mao?

if i read his thread correctly, you are not at war with Mao! right?
I know this doesn't make sense but a lot of things in the game don't make sense. So could it be the manuel means with "enemy", a civ YOU are at war with!?

 

[wohmongarinf00l]

BUT...France has an RoP with china so all the trade network of china is effectively that of france and there are roads from china to japan. i opened the save and got an embassy in france.

 

[Proteus]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Proteus: just press Shift-Ctrl-M. This shows the 'nalked' terrain and makes it easy to spot resources even under cities.

That might really help

 

[nicuss]

Originally posted by wohmongarinf00l
BUT...France has an RoP with china so all the trade network of china is effectively that of france and there are roads from china to japan. i opened the save and got an embassy in france.

I didn't think RoP had anything to do with trade routes. France is at peace with China therefore chinese roads (and thus my roads) are in Frances trade network. But MY trade network is cut off at China's borders thus Paris is innaccessible, and I though that was supposed to be enough to prevent trades. When some civ starts wars with their neighbors I DO lose trading with them even though I'm at peace with everyone in the game.