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Trade Routes

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by KrikkitTwo, Feb 13, 2006.

  1. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,357
    Basically, yes

    Although there is a mistake in the earlier post, trade routes are one way
    so if
    Athens has on its city trade screen
    Rome =+2
    Berlin = +3

    That does not mean that Rome has Athens on ITs city trade screen.
    (Rome could have )
    Berlin=+4
    Moscow =+1


    The only rules are
    1. for each foreign city you may have One route to it in your whole empire
    so if you are the Greeks then
    Athens
    Rome=+4
    Berlin=+3

    Sparta CANNOT have
    Rome +3
    or
    Berlin +2
    It has to move on to Paris, Lonon, etc.

    2. for each of your Own cities, it can only appear once per city

    So for example if you are Greek (and Athens is a Large city), and you have no Open Borders they might look like this

    Athens
    Sparta +2
    Thermopylae +2

    Sparta
    Athens+2
    Thermopylae +1

    Thermopyalae
    Athens +2
    Sparta +1

    Olympus
    Athens +2
    Sparta +1

    Sardinia
    Athens +2
    Sparta +1

    Macedon
    Athens +2
    Sparta +1

    Ephesus
    Thermopylae +2
    Sparta +1

    Of course, because Distance also matters, so the best two cities for Ephesus are Not be the same as the best two cities for Olympus.
     
  2. T_Khan

    T_Khan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    Are trade routes reciprocal (at all; it doesn't look like it from the above example)? Is there any bonus if they are? Is there any limit to the number of trade routes that can "link" to a single city?
     
  3. CIVPhilzilla

    CIVPhilzilla Reagan Republican

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
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    4,714
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    +1 trade route with Cothon for Carthage.
     
  4. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
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    Location:
    The Dreaming Spires
    Trade routes aren't really reciprocal. A trade route from city A to city B does not imply a trade route from city B to city A, and there's no additional benefit if this is the case.

    For the issue of how many trade routes can link to a city, this varies depending on whether the trade route is foreign or domestic. You can have any number of cities linked to one of your own cities by domestic trade routes. However each foreign city can only form a trade route to one of your cities.
     
  5. tomaalimosh

    tomaalimosh Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
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    Location:
    Romania
    this has been very useful.

    Can you do something similar with explaining how the civic upkeep and military upkeep works?

    I mean I know more cities means more upkeep, and further the city from the capital, bigger the upkeep... but that's kind of vague (I'm a control freak :scan: )

    I want to know exactly when and where I can afford to place a new city (if at all)


    thanks
     
  6. DocScott

    DocScott Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5
    I'm currently in a MP PitBoss Warlords game. I've successfully connected with a neighboring player (road + open borders); that's confirmed because we can trade resources. But none of our cities have established trade routes with the others'! All my domestic trade routes are +1, so it's not that the domestic routes are actually better than the foreign ones. Neither one of us has mercantilism; we're not that far along.

    Is there some other condition required for trade to start up? Or is this some kind of bug?

    Just so you know what level of mistake I'm likely to be making, I'm neither expert nor newbie: in SP games, monarch is a comfortable difficulty for me.
     
  7. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
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    12,357
    Sounds like a bug... If you can
    1. Trade Resources (indicating connection)
    2. Have Open borders [not required for resource trade, but required for trade routes]
    3. have no Mercantilism on either side

    You should have trade routes...perhaps there is a delay in MP if you only just signed Open Borders or only just opened up the resource trade.
     
  8. MiKa523

    MiKa523 Nerdish by Nature

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    384
    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks for the info.

    I'd love to have the distance factor reversed, thus closer foreign cities with the same size are prefered.
    This would enable a more constant and especially regional spread of religion by trade routes which allows a better passive spread of the later religions and emphasizes forming of religious blocks.
     
  9. Frisxo

    Frisxo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    10
    Thanks for the thread. This has been confusing for me too.

    Bottom line question:

    If I have big cities and the other guy has small cities should I trade? As I understand things the other guy will receive more trade than I do (because my cities are bigger).
     
  10. floppymoose

    floppymoose Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    138
    I have not confirmed this, but I *think* your own city's population places a cap on how much a trade route is worth. So my guess is that big to small either works out even for both, or better for big, but never better for small.

    The bigtime trade game: Play Hannibal. Build cities on the coast wherever possible. Prefer spots with lots of food. Emphasize population over cottages. Build cothons. Make Great Lighthouse your #1 wonder priority. Slingshot to Astronomy. Have open borders with anyone possible. Free trade. Postpone Corporation. Enjoy.

    When I do this on Prince I can keep up on research while pulling in over 100 gold per turn. I'm able to upgrade my entire army the moment I hit a new unit. All those Flank2+Mobility Numidians become elite Calvary. And those veteran city raider axeman become Grenadiers then Infantry.
     
  11. malekithe

    malekithe King

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    Feb 5, 2006
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    I was just looking through the SDK code pertaining to trade route values and arrived at a nearly identical formula to the one you've got in the original post. My only question, though, is about the "Cap" modifier of 25%. In your post you make it seem as if it only applies if the city is a capital city. In the code, though, it is simply dependent upon a call to CvCity::isConnectedToCapital(PlayerTypes ePlayer). This would seem to indicate that any city connected to its capital through roads or navigable waters would benefit from this 25% bonus.

    BTW, the reason I was looking into this code is because it appears that Great Merchant trade route values are completely dependent upon the value of a regular trade route from the target city to your capital. Gold = S * (500 + (200 * T)), where S is the game speed modifier (150% on Epic) and T is the value of a regular trade route that would appear on the target city's screen were it trading with your capital.
     
  12. montypython

    montypython Chieftain

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    Hey guys. I'm going to resurect this post, and hopefully you all won't get upset. As a civ veteran, I'm used to being able to make a Caravan unit and send it to any city I want to establish a trade route. From what I have read here, it's sound more like it's done automatically in Civ IV than a manual process. Is there anyway to deliberately establish a trade route between any to cities, foreign or domestic?

    Thanks!
     
  13. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

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    the Netherlands
    No, you can't.

    Welcome to civfanatics! :beer: [party]
     
  14. vorlon_mi

    vorlon_mi Just One More Turn

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    Sorry for the :bump: again, but there was one question asked earlier
    that I did not see answered clearly.

    How often are the trade routes recalculated? Every turn? Every N turns?

    As my cities grow, or more importantly, as my borders open or close with
    an AI, the best / most lucrative / feasibly connected trade routes
    will change. So, it would seem that it would have to be every turn, yes?
     
  15. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

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    I share your observations so I also guess every turn.
     
  16. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    I much prefer the current system of cities automatically picking far trade routes over close ones. It's also historically accurate, and distant routes bring more exotic luxury goods which yield higher prices. In the past, values of goods can differ hugely between lands. Classic examples that made sense before but is silly now:

    - North and Central Africa: gold for salt
    - Asia and Europe: the silk road, for precious stones
    - Native Americans: Beaver fur for guns
    - Britain and Qing China: Tea for silver

    As to religious spread via trade routes, I'd much prefer to have religious allies away from myself, so I have space to expand. Better to have your allies help you sandwich your neighbours.
     
  17. baboon

    baboon Warlord

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    The Netherlands
    I usually get open borders with everyone besides my direct neighbours. After all land is taken I try to get open borders with them too.
     
  18. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    It's confusing to see the trade icon in the right bottom of the screen,
    but no foreign trade comes in for zillion of years.
    Religion did spread to one of the foreign cities.
    So, what's going on?
    There isn't any connection by road or river, but there's a coastal path.
    Still there are some coastal tiles covered by fog. After removing the
    coastal fog finally the foreign trade routes showed up in the human cities.
     
  19. 50_dollar_bag

    50_dollar_bag Imitation Louis Vuitton

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    Perhaps the other civ had mapped out the coast and therefore had a coastal path.

    Which leads me to a question: If I don't have astronomy and sign open borders with an inter-continental Civ and we are both in something other than mercantilsim, will the other civ benefit from increased trade from my cities?
     
  20. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    Not entirelly correct.
    +1 Cotton
    so, max = 8
     

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