Trading techs.

[Jayne]

During diplomacy do you exchange technology with other civs? I tend to try and get everything I can from them, but is that the best thing to do. It may help you get nearer your goal, but does it help the AI too much?

What do you do?

 

[ferenginar]

I have voted for sometimes...

I will always trade with the AI early in the game to gain whatever advantage I can, but as the game progresses, there is less available to trade and they are always after the one thing that I don't want to give them, eg gunpowder, conscription.

Towards the end of the game I do not trade as they have nothing to offer and I don't want to give them any assistance anyway.

If they didn't cheat all the time they might have learnt how to play better, I'm sure they have been at it at least as long as me.

ferenginar 51

 

[Adler]

on deity you have to trade techs to survive .. well in most cases.
On chieftain or warlord it's very clear that you have such an technical benefit that you don't need to trade , even in the early game.
but you should always have in mind that the civs you give techs
can be your enemies OR friends

 

[duke o' york]

The rules of tech trading are simple:
If they're researching something that you don't want them to have (say Flight, to cancel your Colossus ) then you should bung as much junk tech their way as possible to slow down their research.
Never give them anything that may lead you to directly lose a wonder or a city. If they are building a wonder and you're nearly finished Mike's then you just know that giving them Monotheism will mean they'll change wonders and beat you to it! If your cities are not ready for it then avoid giving the AI military techs. No city walls? Then don't give away Mobile Warfare or Monotheism, even if you've done Mike's. Don't give away Advanced Flight until you've got SAM batteries in all cities in range.
Try gifting to your key civ. This will be the purple civ if your power rating is supreme, so get the Mongols (or whoever) down to a single city, ensure that they can't grow much or gift on the techs you give them, and then give them everything! This is best at the end of the game, as they'll never have the chance to build a spaceship with a size 2 city and one shield. Have a look at the first Civ 2 Demo game in the archives for a lesson in how to, and how not to, gift in this situation. Bloody Mongols gave Advanced Flight to all the other civs!

Also remember that swapping techs will cause your own science rate to slow down so be absolutely certain that you want what they're offering! If you reckon that you can beat them to a key wonder (they are unlikely to give the techs away though) then go ahead, but if this new found knowledge will mean you miss the Oedo year for Monarchy then you'll be kicking yourself.

 

[Jayne]

Key civ? Is that where if you gift techs to the civ in the corresponding position to your power-rating, your required beakers are reduced?

 

[AnarchyBoy]

I generally trade everything except gunpowder and steam engine (to keep them from getting musketeers and iron clads) or the tech for a wonder I want to build. Otherwise I love trading.

 

[duke o' york]

There are quite a few good explanations of the key civ principle around this forum, and if you get stuck then use starlifter's general wisdom thread for help.

I find that it is often advantageous to gift the AI railroad once I've done Darwin's because that will give them longer to build a rail net across their land that I will use to transport my howitzers when it all turns nasty later on.

 

[funxus]

Originally posted by Jayne
Key civ? Is that where if you gift techs to the civ in the corresponding position to your power-rating, your required beakers are reduced?

Yes, if your power is supreme, your keyciv is the purple civ, and if you're the worst (don't remember what it's called), your keyciv is the white civ. The order in between is the same order as the one when you end the turn.

 

[Old n Slow]

I’ll trade early on -- a) to make “friends” perhaps even get a map; b) depending upon where I’m at in the research stage (say before monarchy) I’ll trade a limited number of techs, say pick up CB but not WC.

I generally choose not to give or trade away gun powder or invention because they seem to be dramatically demanded -- & will be traded among all the ai (or so it seems) & the level of competition shifted up a notch.

At the early to mid game stage. I’ll trade for whatever techs are lying around.

 

[ElephantU]

Trading or gifting techs early improves the AI attitude toward you and allows getting peace, alliances, maps and tribute. Choose carefully what you trade for, cause each new tech you get adds to the number of beakers you must research for your own techs.

Gifting is better, especially when another civ is researching something you want to get first ("tech-bombing"). I think getting other civ's maps is the most powerful benefit early in the game. It allows a choice of early conquest or direct trade routes.

Beware what you gift or trade away - if other civs have met they will trade your advance away, which denies you the benefit of gifting it yourself.

 

[Dark Ascendant]

I try to trade techs without giving away important techs that will help my enemies. The AI civs trade techs among themselves a lot. I don't trade techs unless I know that there are techs that I know I want but do not have.

 

[Dark Ascendant]

Originally posted by funxus


Yes, if your power is supreme, your keyciv is the purple civ, and if you're the worst (don't remember what it's called), your keyciv is the white civ. The order in between is the same order as the one when you end the turn.

Just what is the reduction in required beakers for techs? Does it go down even less if you trade multiple techs? Where can I get more info on this?

 

[KingWilly]

I trade techs with the AI most times, but like many other people, I try not to trade (or gift) techs to the AI that will enable them to overpower me. For example, I wouldn't trade Gunpowder, unless I had Conscription and was on my way to getting Mobile Warfare. Also, I never give flight or advanced flight to the AI. Their bombers just keep coming as soon as they get it.

 

[duke o' york]

Originally posted by Dark Ascendant
Just what is the reduction in required beakers for techs? Does it go down even less if you trade multiple techs? Where can I get more info on this?

If you want to know how many beakers you require for a tech then set your tax rate to 0% science, and employ a scientist in only one of your towns. Look at how many beakers that town gives you and multiply that number by the number of turns you need for the next tech. This will give you the figure for how many beakers you need.
If you want to discover more about the system then play a game with cheat mode on. Reveal the map and meet up with another civ. Either trade a tech with them or gift them one and see how many beakers you now require for your discovery. Be aware though, that the gifting of techs may not have a major effect unless you gift them to your key civ. This civ depends upon what power rating you have (all explained elsewhere on this forum) and your rate of discovery will depend on how far ahead (or behind) of your key civ you are in number of techs researched. When you have supreme power rating then your key civ will always be purple so if you want to play the gifting game then contact the purple civ, ensure that they will not gift the techs you give them to your enemies, and flatten their civ. Leave them with a single town with no chance of growth and no threat whatsoever and give them everything you know! Since they will then have tech parity with you then you can speed up your own research phenomenally! Be careful with this method though, and have a look at the Civ 2 Demo game (in the archives at the bottom of the main page) for details on how to, and how not to do this.

 

[ElephantU]

The definitive answers to questions about Key Civ, Beaker Numbers, and Tech Gifting were published on APOLYTON.NET over a year ago. You have to read through several threads, but here are the links and some explanation:

In 2000, several civvers researched sequences of Beaker Numbers required for consecutive techs:

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/000881.html?date=17:02

In April 2001 Samson discovered the secret of Tech Gifting to Key Civ:

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001828.html?17

Shortly thereafter Samson developed a formula for Cost (in Number of Beakers) of Research:

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001831.html?6

Talk about "Scrolls of Ancient Wisdom"!

 

[Dark Ascendant]

Ok, I've got it. Thanks for the links ElephantU.

 

[Titi]

And nobody ever steals technology ? That's ususally why dips and spies are for in my games, since I trade techs early in the game, but after don't want to give AI advanced technology (did you notice that they almost always trade their new acquired tech the turn after ?)

 

[Dark Ascendant]

BTW, what happens when you are your own key civ.

 

[ArmOrAttAk]

I never trade techs. Seems the AI is always willing to give them to me for free if I camp my latest greatest military unit next to him, or sign some cease fire... Diety of course
The only time I gift is if one civ is overrunning another with his superior techs. I'll gift the weaker so they liquidate each others forces. Or if there's one AI city left that won't grow I'll give them seafaring or something to increase my trade route income. I'd rather deal with the extra turn or two research time then give up anything.

 

[Ace]

I voted for always trade, but thats because by mid game the AI is usually either so far behind it has nothing to trade or the AI has had a minor accident and no longer is in a position to trade..