Tribal Raids Out of Hand

[steveg700]

I'm on a map where I happen to be surrounded by Danes (other nations, not so much), at least sixteen camps in striking distance. Every three years or so I get a notification of a new raid. Each camp has 4-5 elite skirmishers, probably some warlords too, so if the big solution is to go to war with them all, I gotta say it'd be problematic to take on a massive invasion from every direction. As is, it's a considerable drain on orders just to run around and put out all these fires.

Seems like this raiding mechanism needs some kind of throttling. at least at some point the tribal leader asks for something to knock if off for a while. I've sent the tribe luxuries and influenced the tribal leader, just not enough options for improving the relationship. .

 

[Forster]

Build a strong force, upgrade and promote whenever possible. Prioritize the techs that give you archers, spearmen, swordsmen and axemen. Start at one end and proceed to kill each camp. have settlers ready to move in so you can use the capture site to heal your units before you move on.

 

[Heathcliff]

Yeah, tribals are strong on high dififculties

 

[King Jason]

Some games just offer difficult or even unwinnable scenarios due to the setup - get smack dab in the middle of a bunch of close-knit camps is certainly one of those situations. At least on The Great.

I don't currently think it needs a balance pass - considering I've so far ended up in only one game where it was tribal raids that made the game virtually unwinnable even after multiple restarts - I'd say I feel like they're okay as is.

I think this is more a product of unlucky map generation than the tribal mechanics - even in terms of a balance solution my suggestion would be to spread things further out on the map rather than mess with the raid mechanic.

 

[steveg700]

Some games just offer difficult or even unwinnable scenarios due to the setup - get smack dab in the middle of a bunch of close-knit camps is certainly one of those situations. At least on The Great.

I don't currently think it needs a balance pass - considering I've so far ended up in only one game where it was tribal raids that made the game virtually unwinnable even after multiple restarts - I'd say I feel like they're okay as is.

I think this is more a product of unlucky map generation than the tribal mechanics - even in terms of a balance solution my suggestion would be to spread things further out on the map rather than mess with the raid mechanic.

Build a strong force, upgrade and promote whenever possible. Prioritize the techs that give you archers, spearmen, swordsmen and axemen. Start at one end and proceed to kill each camp. have settlers ready to move in so you can use the capture site to heal your units before you move on.

Fair responses, tho I think "build a strong army" is a tad on the side of simplistic advice. Troops take training, which is not a given til certain techs are researched. And techs research slowly till certain techs are researched. Can't simply have everything simply by the act of realizing it's good to have.

Having said that, the main concern is what happens when I finally do go to war. Will all these camps that probably have 100< units all move in at once? hat makes a "camp-by-camp approach untenable. I'll play it how out until it feels utterly hopeless and perhaps provides some amusing screenshots.

 

[PiR]

I think they're limited by orders as well, as all units don't generally move in a single turn, although I'm not sure this is a rule.

 

[Forster]

Fair responses, tho I think "build a strong army" is a tad on the side of simplistic advice. Troops take training, which is not a given til certain techs are researched. And techs research slowly till certain techs are researched. Can't simply have everything simply by the act of realizing it's good to have.

Having said that, the main concern is what happens when I finally do go to war. Will all these camps that probably have 100< units all move in at once? hat makes a "camp-by-camp approach untenable. I'll play it how out until it feels utterly hopeless and perhaps provides some amusing screenshots.

By strrong army I mean as many units as you can, and of promoting as soon as possible and upgrading as you get new techs. I really think that is the only way you can survive and defeat the barbs/tribes.

 

[steveg700]

All other arguments aside, raids getting deployed every few turns gets tedious (or every two turns...or not even that). That's why it warrants some kind of balance pass. The game needs fewer "three lemons" scenarios. The camps never get deterred by their raiders getting killed. They don't have a condition that says "that didn't work, let's hold off for a while".

It seems that every camp has its own capability to send raiders. If a map wraps the player in 20 Danes, then it's dashing to and fro trying to stamp the fire, and not really having a way to take the fight to the enemy that won't translate into attacks from all sides. The AI nations don't pose this problem, as they have to expand like the player rather than starting the game with an enveloping advantage.

 

[Quintillus]

Having said that, the main concern is what happens when I finally do go to war. Will all these camps that probably have 100< units all move in at once? hat makes a "camp-by-camp approach untenable. I'll play it how out until it feels utterly hopeless and perhaps provides some amusing screenshots.

No; tribes are not nations, and not coordinated like that. Only units in the vicinity of the camp you are attacking will attack your units, unless you trigger a "Tribal Invasion". I don't think I've done that yet, but my understanding is that you have the opportunity to do so if you are attacking them and take especially hostile actions through events. Probably not a good idea most of the time!

My impression so far is that it does depend on the map how much of a problem raiders are, but the variety is kind of nice. In my current game, when I got an offer to form a tribal alliance with the Gauls through an event, I jumped at it so they wouldn't raid me. Later on when I was stronger, and the 13-city Scythians wanted me to help them against the 4-city Gauls, I switched sides. It can be hard to use diplomacy enough to get a Tribal Alliance without events, though. Although one option you haven't mentioned using is marriage. I managed to get an alliance with the Vandals in my first game by using marriage to help diplomacy. Wouldn't be surprised if that increases the chance of events to further improve relations, too.

16 camps is more than I've ever seen for one nation, by the way. I think 10 on a Standard map, the Scythians with 13 is a giant map. It sounds like the ideal configuration to pull out all the diplomatic stops and try to avoid ending up fighting them. Once you get a tribal alliance, you can peacefully settle their city sites in exchange for gold, so you may even gain their land more quickly, and at much less military cost, that way.

Going forward, you can also tweak how strong the tribes are in the advanced game setup. It sounds like you've drawn an especially strong tribe this time, but nonetheless you may want to tone them down a bit next game.

 

[HiRezAudio]

Build a strong force, upgrade and promote whenever possible. Prioritize the techs that give you archers, spearmen, swordsmen and axemen. Start at one end and proceed to kill each camp. have settlers ready to move in so you can use the capture site to heal your units before you move on.

Yup.
That's the way to do it!