Greek Stud
Prince
I disagree perfusely with this statement. Self-determination does not exist if it coins an existing determined group. First let me explain that I do see that the modern existance of Macedonian blood exists in both the Slavic communities and in the Greek communities. Your people can not name themselves the 'whole' of a group as it exists as 'part' of the group. Just as a book is derived from the properties of a tree, you can never teach your children to call books, trees. If language went on to call both books and trees, trees, what is there to deferentiate the two entities. None. Yet, they are very different. I know you understand this position and that this isnt some euphoric enlightment, but I must write it on here to point out that Macedonianism exists in Greece with the Greeks as well as the Slavs in FYRMacedonia feel connected to Macedonianism.
You stated individuals have a right to self-determination, but this is clearly over-stated as you see in the Hip Hop communties so much youth wants to make the statement that they are of this African-Culture identity, as it did originate through the American-African culture. But I can stand here and say it is my self-determined right that I am African-American because I have lived a life surrounded by African-Americans yet I am obviously of Greek descent.
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I would like to understand the difference in something being Hellenistic and something being Hellenic. My understanding of Hellenism is living like the Greek cultural lifestyle. How do you see it?
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For the case of Romans and Etruscans comparing to Macedonians to Athenians, you need to look at which groups of people controlled who. The 12 tribal city-states of Etruria had a firm grip on Rome, and most of Latium along with the costal Italic groups of the Adriatic Sea (names after Hadrian, the Roman Emperor). The documentations of Etruria from the Greeks explain a strong influence on the daily cultural life of the Romans. Their revolt against the Etruscans only goes to show how fustrated politically the Romans were under the Etruscans. Latinization does not spur cultural birth in the city of Rome. Even as Rome gained political strength, governance, military control over the boot, Latinization was a process by the entire culture. Even borrowing of the Greek religion is a Latinization process, but it is not of Rome, but you can define the Latin culture as the polytheists that worshipped the Gods and Goddesses from Greece. Illyria is known and recorded as having relations with the Celts, Etruscans, and Pannonians. Their historical interaction with the Romans are recorded as being accepting of the Roman culture, but disproving of Roman dominance. Illyria was a difficult political issue that the Romans shared the reliance with the Hellenic groups in integrating the Illyrians into the Roman Empire. The Pontic-Thracian Greeks under the Hellenic Kingdom of Pergamon, gave into Rome with their surrender, the 4 leagues under the Hellenic Kingdom of Macedonia collapsed at the capital at Cointh. The Macedonian controlled Greeks under went Latinization, and both Illyrians and Greeks were given political rights and leadership roles. But the purpose of me continuing the issue to this period was the fact that during the Roman Empire, Illyrians wrote laws in Latin. The Greeks continued to write in Greek but Illyrian influence only epxanded their culture into Macedonia, Dalmatia, and Pannonia. As one of the strongest cultural standards are the language, the Illyrians spread the language to Latin. Language defines where a culture looks to for economic reliance, trade and cultural trends. The entire globe today speaks english because of everyone's reliance on the United States. So is eveyone today an American because they speak our language, or are they simply looking to join the American group. Is there the possibility that Illyria was a Latin culture because of its reliance on Rome? Or just because Illyrians just wanted to be Roman, which we know to be false. That is where my conclusion of Illyrians being a Latin group stems from. The Illyrians use to fight wars with the Macedonians and the Romans, yet they spoke Latin. Either they were primarily settlers from Italic Italy or they choose the Latin culture to be dependent on as well they could have adapted the Greek language and depend more on Macedonia than on Rome.
The Macedonians captured Greece, yet it citizenized its people and voters as being part of a Hellenic Empire. Macedonians had to have the mind set that their people were overwhelmingly of Hellenic influence or lineage to not declare that the Macedonian culture would be the dominating law, language, government. When you find incidents where Trojans and Macedonians visited the Greeks in Corinth or Athens, they visited as part of the group. Even if the case is made that ethnically they mixed with many groups, the overwhelming proof is that these cultures spread the idea of Hellenism of which they felt they were a part of. One language is of the most importance, especially for people of this time. Phoenicians blended their influence on the Greek alphabet, and fully incorporated their efforts towards Hellenization as they fell to Alexander in Tyre. If Macedonianism was so different, and so self-identitified and separate of the Hellenic identity, I ask you to answer me why this Empire spread the ideas of Greece and not Macedonia. Alexander does not tell his conquered world to look at Pella for their leadership and guidance. Instead he holds the Illiad in one hand, and demands that his trade cities of the multiple Alexandrias teach one language in his known world, and for it to be the Greek language. If he lived in the time of the greatest strength of his people, why would he hand the glory of his life to the Greeks? No country in the history of the world has ever done this. Glory goes to group that the leader defines himself/herself as being a part of. Imagine, a general being undefeated and thinking that he had just conquered the world. Look at where in the world ALexander comes from. Throughout time nationalism has been stubbornly existant, even if it only refered to the City-State of your region. The egoism of the Illyrians to the Romans, and the Athenians to the non-Ionians, if the Macedonians shared any relation with its neighbors, which it is known for doing, how would a man from Macedonia give this glory to a Hellenic culture, that he identitifies himself as being separate from. It is because he didnt see himself as being separate from it, as he was a part of Hellenic culture.
