True Multitreaded semi succession game, Immortal or deity.

[sylvanllewelyn]

Deity is really from "challanging" to "unplayable". Numerically the difference is small, but that little extra is really the straw that breaks the camel's back. The closest I ever got was liberalism 900AD, great library (10% engineer chance), destroyed Isabella, captures pyramids and great lighthouse. But none of that mattered: Monty declared war on me, razed all my cities and destroyed me soon after. He didn't gain anything: he was just nuts.

 

[darrelljs]

Turn 2 played from my save.

Spoiler :

This really doesn't warrant a spoiler tag, but Priesthood came in and I went to build The Oracle. Uh, not an option. I check the turn log and the thing was built in 2140 . Looking forward to playing someone else's save next time .

Darrell

 

[Mutineer]

darrelljs

Please, do not be lazy, play from some one else save this turn.
We need a bit more options and different strategies.
If you loose Oracle, that mean you try to addapt to situation.

But to be true in my expirience in Deity Oracle tend to be build about 2000 BC.

 

[darrelljs]

Please, do not be lazy, play from some one else save this turn. We need a bit more options and different strategies. If you loose Oracle, that mean you try to addapt to situation.

I picked my save and can't just change it due to a bad mistake, that would be like wrong and stuff .

Spoiler :

I did play through the entire turnset, deciding to build a stack of Chariots to try and take some cities, but with just the capital (as good as it was) I couldn't keep up:

I hit Alphabet first and picked up about 8 techs from it, hopefully someone else can pull that. I'll attach the save in case someone else wants to play it, but I don't recommend it.

Darrell

 

[Mutineer]

Well, By the look of it mistake was made in previous turn set, when you did not notice that some one else builded Oracle.



If you just do not believe that it is posible to build wanders in Deity, with little luck it is posible.
I had one game On Island/shaky continent settings that I manage to beat AI to GL. I think I manage to build it
Befor 2000BC. Had to admit that I was lucky. I got Mining from first hat and pop cooper on first mine I build at capital.

Pop cooper mean it pop up from empty mine a few turns after BW was discovered.
In additional capital was good.

I think I had 2 cities 2 workers and GL at 2000 bc.

 

[Mutineer]

Generally atrategy of getting wanders on Deity, or any other dificulty level is not to gradially build it, but in Manipulating situation to do general development up to the point when you push everything in building wander in shortest time posible.

Useally that mean preparation befor commitment.

Like preroading/prechop forests, setting city to use whip overflow to speed up wander and even direct whip.

In doing that you are not committed to have wander untill you actially start mass shield damp into wander, so risk of you get stuffed when AI beat you up to it and you getting 1 gp/shiled return is small.

In some cases one could even use this 1 gp/shield conversion, as with 125% bonus one can convers 1 chop (30 shields) into 67 gold.

 

[darrelljs]

I definitely believe it is possible to build wonders in Deity...I've done the CS slingshot on Immortal before (but not when The Oracle falls in 2140 BC!) and wouldn't have tried it here without some hope of success. Like Qwack said, with Gandhi on the map the odds were not good. Not that I could have known he was in the game from the start .

Darrell

 

[darrelljs]

Deity is really from "challanging" to "unplayable". Numerically the difference is small, but that little extra is really the straw that breaks the camel's back.

To me the biggest difference is the AI gets a Settler to start with. That's a pretty darn big advantage!

Darrell

 

[Godel]

Turn 2 to 625BC. Continuing from my previous save.


Decided to continue with my earlier save since I could see the outcome of earlier moves and hope to learn something.

The basic strategy was to (1) grab copper and pigs in the first border expansion from Barcellona, (2) discover writing to get OB with Alex and others (increased trade but mainly for military intelligence on Alex's cities), (3) if everything goes well begin getting an army of axes to take one or two of Alex's cities (with possible training beforehand on the barb cities).

So, what happened?

Alex converts to Buddhism, Oracle built in a FAL 1880.

1720 AH comes in and there are horses in the capital.

1320 Writing. I decide to go for Alphabet for trading purposes (works well at emperor, let's see what happens here). OB with Alex and a few other civs.
Alex's cities are quite well defended. Most have walls and 3 or 4 units each. A number on on hills. This is starting to look bad - very costly to take.

Alex builds the GLH in Athens.

975 More bad news: Alex's culture takes our copper. Immediately switch to a library build in Barcelona.

Meet Monte.

775 Taoism founded in a distant land. Wow! That's early!

750 Hinduism spreads to Barcellona. Convert to Hindiusm (Alex is Hindu). We learn alphabet and do the trading rounds to pick up IW, Masonary, Ag and Sailing. I can't get mathematics from Monte because alphabet is devalued once a trade it to a few civs.

Monte later demands Alphabet. I give it to him since he has OB with Alex and a few units running around near my borders.

Big Greek military buildup outside Barcellona. I am a little nervous but hope that it is to claim the barb cities. That seems to be what is happening.

Where to from here?
The situation is not good. I am training a settler to claim the iron in the tundra near Madrid. I have to decide whether to close borders with Alex to prevent his troops taking the barb cities in the Tundra. I think not because I'd rather him spend HAs on those cities than on mine. We are currently researching Drama. I hope to trade it for mathematics and a few religious techs. Then pop philosophy with a GS for more trading. I will probably build two more cities to increase production. Once iron is hooked up train axes etc and then tech to construction for cats. But I am fairly sure Alex will have LBs by then.

State of the Nation
The Spanish are Hindu
Madras - granary, barracks
Barcellona - granary, library, barracks almost complete, 3gppts
Techs: all level 1 and 2 techs (except Med and Poly), BW, IW, Writing, Alph, Drama (170/507) in 9 turns.

Some reflections
Cities are going to be much harder to take at Diety. Even the barb cities have 4 archers each some with CG1 promos. If I had fog busted before 2500BC I think I would be in a better position to settle my part of the world. Losing the culture battle (in the short-term) with Alex is a bummer - someone anticipated that would happen. I'm looking forward to seeing how the good players will make this openning position work.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/102055/Deity_MSG_BC-0625.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Godel]

Just had a look at the other reports. Thoughts:

I'm quite impressed by what Mutineer and Robo Kai have achieved so far. You both seem very focussed - if in the early stages you lose your way with tech by only a couple of turns it is enough make a huge difference.

In my first turnset I didn't fog bust much at all which forced me to detour to archery. Without needing archery I could have got alphabet 5 or 6 turns earlier which probably would have netted me mathematics. Ghandi had alphabet early in my second turnset and Washington had almost researched it when I got it so wouldn't trade at all.

Nabbing Buddism was a big plus: your culture means you get marble for GL.

Thanks for running this Mutineer. I have learnt a lot so far. After Round 2 saves are in, are we allowed to replay the starting position again for personal interest (not advancing beyond 2000BC, say)?

EDIT: corrected typo

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

In the early game cities really give you more production rather than commerce anyway, and production is one of the few areas where you can hope to beat the AI. It's tech costs that murder you.

 

[Mutineer]

Thanks for running this Mutineer. I have learnt a lot so far. After Round 2 saves are in, are we allowed to replay the starting position again for personal interest (not advancing beyond 2000BC, say)?

My position - this is not a competition, but learning execise.
So, replay as many times as you like and so long as you did not go bejoin your own current post date. I very often did it myself in my private games when I wanted to see how think are working and why.

Personally I even do not mind if you correct some mistake you did doing your own set, if you just correcting stuped mistakes like move units not where intended by mistake or forget to whipe. It is not execise in perfection. So long as you do not make a different strategic choise based on learned information it is fine in my book.

 

[Meatbuster]

Thanks for running this Mutineer. I have learnt a lot so far. After Round 2 saves are in, are we allowed to replay the starting position again for personal interest (not advancing beyond 2000BC, say)?

Well, you could always play from one of the other saves. Although I really like your second city, and no matter how hard I tried (and restarted) I could never get to that site fast enough, whether by worker-settler or settler first. Tell me your secret, how did you do it?

 

[Godel]

Hi Robo Kai,

I got lucky. IIRC I went workboat, warrior, worker, begin settler, switch to military (barb trouble), resume settler (pop rushed). I think I beat Alex by 1 or 2 turns to the site as he was already roading up to the site outside his borders (will the AI do this?). The trouble I had with barbs delayed the settler by about 5 or 6 turns.

Still, Alex's culture is hard to fend off the copper. I lost it before I could hook it up. Now that I have a library I think I will reclaim the copper 25 turns from now, assuming Alex doesn't generate more culture. I will start building a theatre there soon, but I have to settle the tundra to have a certain source of metals. Bercellona is good without the copper (pigs to run 2 scientists) but I was hoping for much better (military production).

I presently intend to play with my saves until the situation becomes totally unworkable. Meanwhile will hope that the good players remain strong so I can pick up their saves later.

Godel

 

[Meatbuster]

Oh, you pop rushed. I see. That's something I didn't think to do because I wanted at least 4 pop to work the capital's good tiles. But yeah, maybe more extreme measures were needed in Deity.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

[Ok have played my save and don't know if I was lucky or Just in the right place to take up an opportunity offered

Spoiler :

Anyway I was proceeding with hooking up my city for the copper on the East Coast and exploring with my warrior when I found a Barb City in a lovely spot up north. Without Axemen there was no way i could take it but all I could hope for was stealing it fram an AI once they had damged the dfenders for me. As I could see Washington and Alexanders forces approaching the city immediately built a couple of Chariots ot park nearby (Hooking up copper and building Axemen would take too long.

And low and behold luck was with me as Washington brought too few forces (you can see his wounded Axmean but left just a couple of Archers behind for me to take the city just, and it is in a fine spot.

Whether it was luck or spotting and skillfully utilitising the opprtunity is for others to decide!!

Other than that my play to beeline Alphabet and whore it aorund worked well in picking up techs and I now have

Spoiler :

All the first and 2nd column of techs plus what you can see here. I was first to Alphabet by strictly bee lining it and it has made a difference.

Literature soon and I am going to try and chop in the Great Library in my Capital

As for the rest of my empire

Spoiler :

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Spoiler :

Having thought about it I am not sure we are too late to beeline construction, I think I can pick up Math in a trade possibly, for a mad swordsmen/axeman + catapult rush to whittle down Alexander or Washigton.

Views?

 

[Meatbuster]

Ralph:
Definitely expect to fight a war behind in tech on Deity. But it's never too late for a new military unit. Besides, Catapults are the units that allows you to win against the hordes.

That's really lucky, but it's a welcome free city!

 

[Mutineer]

Ok, we have only 5 saves out of expected 7, if I count it rigth.

I think we will wait for a bit, as I want to keep more treads alive.

 

[angeleyes]

i'm sorry Mutineer, i'll not participate, i've to much running already..