TSG 122 Announcement

[Knowtalent]

Civilization 5 - Game of the Month Training Series Game 122
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Welcome to the 122th game in the GOTM V Training Series! This Series will allow new and old GOTM fans to try out these features from Civ5's expansions and DLCs in a friendly environment. Participants are encouraged to post questions, stories, advice, tricks and failures in the dedicated game threads (described below). Each game will specify the Civ you will play and the Victory Condition to strive for. You can read more about the GOTM and Training Series concept in this thread.

Must Read!

We would like to ask you to abide by our most sacred rule: Don’t replay any turns! If you make a mistake, accept it and try to recover. To ensure fair play and prevent results exclusions, please set your Autosaves to 1 turn. In the event of a computer crash while playing, just reload to the previous save and play it as closely to how you played it the first time. Please let Leif, Hammer Rabbi or me know (either in the forums or through Private Message) if you experienced a crash and how many turns you replayed.

Civ V BNW - TSG122 Details:

Player (You): - Ramesses II - The Egyptians
Victory Condition: Science but all other VCs are enabled.
Difficulty: Prince
Civs/City-States (including player): 8/14
Map Type/Size: Highlands
Game pace: Standard
POLICY RESTRICTION FOR THIS GAME YOU MAY NOT USE TRADITION POLICY TREE
All policies will be available but use of the Tradition tree will mean being excluded from the results

Game options:
Start - Anceint Era
Enabled - Quick Combat, Quick Movement
(Regardless of starting options, you may turn on/off Quick Combat/Quick Movement using the game options menu at any time during gameplay.)
Game Version: This game was created in Civ5 Brave New World version 1.0.3.279.
Game Requirements: ALL DLC, save for the cradle maps and scramble maps. Gods and Kings expansion, Brave New World Expansion.
Sorry about the DLC Requirements I thought I had deselected the unused DLC but I seemed to have forgotten

Egypt Unique Attributes:

Spoiler :

UA: Monument Builders - Cities receive a +20% production when building a Wonder
UU: War Chariot - Mounted missle unit. This Unit is faster and does not require Horses like the Chariot Archer, which it replaces.

UB: Burial Tomb - Replaces the Temple. It provides 2 local happiness and requires no upkeep. If a city containing a Burial Tomb is captured it will provide 2x the gold

This is where you will start:

Information about threads associated with each individual TSG -- Must Read if you are new to our Game of the Month!

Spoiler :

Please note: If you wish to make a video of your game, please do not post any links to it until after the game submission date has passed. This is because of the potential spoilers that are created by posting before the end date. Thank you for your cooperation.

TSG Announcement thread (this one): This thread is used to announce the game and clarify the settings and rules (don’t be afraid to ask questions). It’s also used to discuss the game before you start, and post problems with opening the save. Please don’t post any game-related info once you open and play the save. Instead use the next thread.

Opening Actions thread: This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. We encourage players to use the spoiler tags for screenshot. During the time the game is active, please do not post any information concerning the game outside of the spoiler threads including screen shots, videos, or recorded/live-cast Let's Plays on other websites.

After Actions thread: In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game. Some players like to replay the game, and although we will not record the results from a replay, you can still post your new experiences. The game will not be closed as such, but after one month, the results will be compiled, and will not necessarily be updated with reports coming in after the finish date.

Results and Congratulations thread: We will create a separate thread with the results at the end of the one month submission period (sorted by date and score). We will issue medals to the top 3 winners (based on earliest date finished). There are no long-term records kept for these results, they are just given out to top finishers to reward their efforts.

File Upload System
We have a game file upload system you can find here. Please use it to upload your completed first attempt by saving the game on the turn after your victory or defeat. (by using the "lemme play one more turn" feature) Please note: you must submit your game on the turn following Victory. If you continue to play, the game overwrites the data and your submission could be rejected by the submission system.

This game runs for a month and ends December 15th, 2015.

The save will be available for download on November 15th, 2015, midnight Central Standard time (UTC -6:00) in the US.

The Save can be found here.

 

[Knowtalent]

Hi folks,
This is the first time we will be trying a policy restriction, for this game Tradition will not be allowed. Having played many GOTM there seems to have been a basic pattern for most of the games. In an effort to provide some variety to the established win paths we will be introducing occasional policy exclusions and inclusions. I would like feed back on this idea
Thanks,
KT

 

[Sclb]

Looks like a solid liberty spam game then. At least get Pyramid for RP purpose.

 

[Olodune]

I would like feed back on this idea

I like it, but it does decrease the accessibility of the GotM series. Since this is an easy map, perhaps the next "easy" one should be extra-variant free? Or perhaps there aren't many new Civ 5 players - in which case ignore this.

For the more experienced players this just reads: Liberty Science. Which is not the most challenging. For those players taking away both Tradition and Liberty would be more thought provoking.

 

[strake]

I like the idea, I almost automatically pick Tradition with every Civ start. So this will force me to stretch a little, and learn more about how Liberty Science actually works since I'm assuming the tempo of it is quite different than Tradition. Or maybe I'll experiment with Piety and the reformation belief to buy science buildings, which I also never play with.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

Liberty city spam for sure, especially at prince level. And with Egypt, the great library rush to NC is doable especially with that start. No tradition means no Hanging Gardens which sucks but oh well that is a crutch that experienced CIV players rely too much on anyway. I am half tempted to go piety instead, but liberty is just too good to pass up especially on this map!

I really hope ALL DLC does not mean All map packs otherwise I will be sad...

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I like it, but it does decrease the accessibility of the GotM series. Since this is an easy map, perhaps the next "easy" one should be extra-variant free? Or perhaps there aren't many new Civ 5 players - in which case ignore this.

For the more experienced players this just reads: Liberty Science. Which is not the most challenging. For those players taking away both Tradition and Liberty would be more thought provoking.

Even for new players this is too easy imo.
I think anything below difficulty level 4 is totally unneeded. If if you just do random stuff because the buildings look pretty and the techs sound interesting, you will beat difficulty level 4.
Thus imo there is no need for gotms to go below 4.
Although lower difficulties can be interesting to enable special strategies like the superfast CV from last gauntlet, but even such things can easilly be done on level 4. (it seems more interesting to me to make a gotm at a level where it is just on the edge for that strategy to work) I think that also provides the perfect balance to make games that can be interesting for both the veteran and the noob. The right difficulty for that of course depends on the map/victory condition, but imagine that mostly being in the 4-6 range.

 

[Knowtalent]

Liberty city spam for sure, especially at prince level. And with Egypt, the great library rush to NC is doable especially with that start. No tradition means no Hanging Gardens which sucks but oh well that is a crutch that experienced CIV players rely too much on anyway. I am half tempted to go piety instead, but liberty is just too good to pass up especially on this map!

I really hope ALL DLC does not mean All map packs otherwise I will be sad...

Well you can always wait until someone else builds it
Let me know if you have any issues with the save. As i said i thought i had disabled the various unneeded DLC

I like the idea, I almost automatically pick Tradition with every Civ start. So this will force me to stretch a little, and learn more about how Liberty Science actually works since I'm assuming the tempo of it is quite different than Tradition. Or maybe I'll experiment with Piety and the reformation belief to buy science buildings, which I also never play with.

I want to encourage looking at other strategies. There will be games where we will restirct one and force another. Piety, Commerce, and Autocracy are seldom used so they will all have included games. Who knows maybe some people will actually buy Landschneckts

I like it, but it does decrease the accessibility of the GotM series. Since this is an easy map, perhaps the next "easy" one should be extra-variant free? Or perhaps there aren't many new Civ 5 players - in which case ignore this.

For the more experienced players this just reads: Liberty Science. Which is not the most challenging. For those players taking away both Tradition and Liberty would be more thought provoking.

I will regularly have normal games. The idea us easier to test on the lower levels as they typically get more plays and results. I dont know how many new players we get, but there are some. most of the submits are from the usual suspects The higher level games could be made actually challenging for the best players Ive seen amazing finish times from you, Acken, Tommy, and others in games i struggle to get sub 300 wins. As to Liberty, there is the 5% per city science which will mean diminishing returns on new cities.

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[Wild_Woojsha]

Well you can always wait until someone else builds it
Let me know if you have any issues with the save. As i said i thought i had disabled the various unneeded DLC

I want to encourage looking at other strategies. There will be games where we will restirct one and force another. Piety, Commerce, and Autocracy are seldom used so they will all have included games. Who knows maybe some people will actually buy Landschneckts

I will regularly have normal games. The idea us easier to test on the lower levels as they typically get more plays and results. I dont know how many new players we get, but there are some. most of the submits are from the usual suspects The higher level games could be made actually challenging for the best players Ive seen amazing finish times from you, Acken, Tommy, and others in games i struggle to get sub 300 wins. As to Liberty, there is the 5% per city science which will mean diminishing returns on new cities.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

I meant more of the tradition policy tree itself being a crutch compared to just HG. You can't capture Aristocracy and get 15% off ancient wonders to stack with the 20% Egypt gets!!! That's what has me sad, I was ready for a good excuse to build every wonder in the game.

I hope this save works, I'll post on here if it doesn't. I have them all except for most of the map packs.

As for that 5% per city penalty, that is easy to overcome with population growth. Happiness is the liberty killer, but with that start and Egypt's burial tombs the whole empire will be grinning like the joker. 7 City Liberty I think is the sweet spot, maybe 8 if there is room. That means every tech will cost 25% more than usual 3 city tradition, but having eight 15-20 population cities by turn 200 should make up for it. The trick will be to grow all of the cities at the same size and use local happiness buildings and etc. to keep happiness at around 0 until CS alliances and Ideologies can take over and growth/happiness can explode.

 

[Knowtalent]

Yeah Tradition is by most accounts the best policy tree, which not coincidentally is why I chose it as the first one to be excluded.
Early on Republic is better than Aristocracy its about equal on bonus and can be used for anything. There is always Monument to the gods


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[mtt9999]

That means every tech will cost 25% more than usual 3 city tradition, but having eight 15-20 population cities by turn 200 should make up for it.

The trick in this case might not be happiness, but food! My game is highly dependent on coastal cities for cargo ship food (coupled with colossus is amazing), but in highlands I don't think there is much water nor grasslands. To reach high population in many cities might occupy all the poor caravans - making money an issue.
That being said it is prince. No problem winning just worried about fun levels if I'm always broke
Thanks knowtalent for your first gotm. I'm excited to try it!

 

[zxcvbob]

I'm playing a practice game with the same settings, but I forgot to turn off "raging barbs" -- it's kind of a default setting for me. So first thing I opened was Honor, then full Liberty, then back to the right side of Honor, opened Commerce to unlock Big Ben (I had a *lot* of policies to burn before I could open Rationalism) and now I'm working on Rationalism and Freedom. I'm about 20 techs ahead of the AI's and I have 5 GS's sitting around waiting. Just finished researching Plastics, and building Statue of Liberty and Brandenburg Gate at the same time. I'll save the Rationalism finisher for something big like Satellites or Atomic Theory.

I took a Great General for my freebie from LToP to snag some coal for factories.

Thebes does not have a mountain, but all my other cities do. (Thebes has marble and a river.) I figured food would be a problem, so the first wonder I rushed was ToA. I'm avoiding any wonders that have great merchant points, and building most of the rest.

It's been peaceful so far, but Indonesia recently started settling crappy little cities right in my face and coveting my land, then yelling at me when my cultural borders expand. I may have to burn them all down soon...

 

[stormtrooper412]

Oh this is very interesting. A Liberty game is obvious at this point, I think the ToA would be useful. GL looks like a trap.

I also never played this map type, does it mean lots of hills and mountains? Is it a variant of Pangaea? Either way, this looks like the perfect opportunity to finally play out a Liberty SV. I applaud the change of pace, Tradition is indeed the go-to choice for everyone.

We may consider getting a worker out early

 

[Knowtalent]

Oh this is very interesting. A Liberty game is obvious at this point, I think the ToA would be useful. GL looks like a trap.

I also never played this map type, does it mean lots of hills and mountains? Is it a variant of Pangaea? Either way, this looks like the perfect opportunity to finally play out a Liberty SV. I applaud the change of pace, Tradition is indeed the go-to choice for everyone.

We may consider getting a worker out early

The Highlands map is a non wrap map, with minimal water. Mostly lakes and a few inland seas. plenty of hills and mountains. Once the game save has been released I will include my personal game notes and Turn count in the After Action page. Yes I did play thru to the end. I cant abandon games, its a sickness .

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

Oh this is very interesting. A Liberty game is obvious at this point, I think the ToA would be useful. GL looks like a trap.

I also never played this map type, does it mean lots of hills and mountains? Is it a variant of Pangaea? Either way, this looks like the perfect opportunity to finally play out a Liberty SV. I applaud the change of pace, Tradition is indeed the go-to choice for everyone.

We may consider getting a worker out early

This is Prince though, Great Library doesn't usually go until turn 60-70 on Prince. I may be wrong, but with Egypt it may only take a couple turns more to build the GL instead of a boring old plain library...
Temple Of Artemis will absolutely be a must on this map too since food will be scarce. Feed the World will be absolutely necessary as well as this is Prince so getting a religion will be doable as well.

I completely forgot about monument to the Gods. So with Egypt its possible to build ancient wonders 50% faster? Wow...

 

[Knowtalent]

Theoretically if you took aristocracy MTG and had marble youre looking at %65 more production on ancient and classic wonders

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[zxcvbob]

God-King is a good pantheon to help with early wonders, and it doesn't cut off after Classical era; it just doesn't scale so it fades in importance (also only helps your capital)

Portugal went all-in in Piety in my current game, and then didn't get a religion. She isn't doing too well. And I almost feel sorry for her, being landlocked with just one city, and a UI that needs coastal CS's.

 

[budweiser]

Messenger of the gods.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Messenger of the gods.

Don't share your secret weapons with the opponents
Yep, low difficulty + liberty -> Messenger of the gods is a great pantheon as you can probably still get a religion even without faith pantheon.
Would have to see how many gold/silver is out there of course as culture+faith from religious idols would also be nice, or maybe some growth pantheon (goddess of the hunt if more elephants or sun god if lots of wheat)

 

[glonnon]

Not much could stop me from opening honor. I can see some cases that I could open Honor/Liberty/Piety/Patronage very early. My only concern is losing the Academy from not finishing liberty my early science will suffer. No way to make this up on prince but the idea of getting seven or eight observatories up early is too compelling. Not sure where to find the food. I am thinking I will create a big footprint and abuse the AIs making this a Warmonger->science campaign. Prince AIs are useless. This game will take lots of micromanaging.

It should be possible to grab the GL in second city but an early GL allows patronage early. Rolling CS seems like fun but makes it difficult to explore entire map. This map is huge. Mt Kilo would make the map manageable. Need to get cities out early to support units needed to make this route payoff. May need to push thru unhappiness not good in science victory.

Not a fan of right side of liberty because
1) I can steal workers (extra units will cost me though)
2) Golden ages are over rated early game wise
3) I will be so spread out city connections won't happen early
4) I will get the best lux spots, more important than 1/20 happiness