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TSG 160 After Actions

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Game Of The Month' started by Knowtalent, Jul 2, 2017.

  1. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    That is great! Is that comment in the source, or your explanation?
    Have you come across the line that causes a denouncement to make the AI less likely to DOW?
     
  2. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    No its written as is in the code. You mean an AI that has denounced you or when you denounce an AI ?
     
  3. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    The whole 1UPT code is very difficult to read and interpret (movement, combat). I can only tell you how it works at a high level. Basically the AI thinks in terms of armies and reserve units. To attack someone the AI first call for the creation of an army. This army creation part then itterates every turn to fill up position in an army. It asks for X amount of range, Y amount of melee etc. Some units are elligible some or not. Also the whole process of army creation is under conditions. Once that is done it will then proceed to move the whole ordeal toward a target. In the route calculation there is an abort condition where if the AI is unable to move its whole army to the target it will cancel the whole thing.

    All this is very far from solid and will make the AI do weird stuff.

    As I have written above it's not entirely true. The AI do "remember" some elementary stuff from one turn to the next when it comes to war or it's victory objective or who is a friend, who it plans to go to war with etc.
    The main problem is however from 2 things when it comes to combat :
    1. The code simply isn't very good to handle 1UPT (1UPT with terrain restriction, OP range units etc).
    2. The maps are often too difficult to allow such a code to handle it.
    (3). Range units handled by a player

    It's the combination of AI coding and some non AI friendly design choices that is at the origin of a lot of AI problem civ5 has. If one of the two was top notch you'd have a lot less issue but here two negatives certainly don't make a positive.
    In other word it's as if something like map layout for 1UPT was not thought in conjunction of how well the AI would handle it. The AI simply plays better on a mapscript like mine or NQmap because movements are easier.

    Tbh, I have always felt that Civ5 (and Civ6) should have opened up maps for 1UPT.

    But you are of course right that in general the AI evaluates a lot of things in the moment rather than the overall strategy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  4. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    When you denounce an AI. I am a rampant reloader. If I get a surprise DOW, I reload back a turn and bribe them away so I focus on empire building. Except sometimes, no one is bribable. In about half of these cases, a denouncement will buy some turns.
     
  5. socralynnek

    socralynnek Civ & Hattrick addict

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    Thanks for the feedback already, so I found a point where I can improve.
    I guess I will try Domination with Frigates and Privateers, I guess that might work.

    What was hindering me in this game was Spain spamming so many Great Prophets so I couldn't really expand my religion. I guess, if I take care of Spain/keep them busy early on, then it will be rewarded by my religion giving me more (especially with Tithe)
     
  6. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    That one is a little difficult to track. Denouncing someone lowers his opinion which should increase his likelihood of having a war approach towards you. But due to RNG in some diplo weights and a lot of other valuations like who you are friend with etc it can happen I guess that it will delay a war.

    Nothing as clear cut as no war if already at war though.
     
  7. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I am such an addict for the National Wonders, I could not do anything w/ Frigates and Privateers. So Stealth Bombers and XCOM as usual, and not a fast game at all.

    At Deity, “expanding” your religion is about impossible. On the other hand, even at Deity, keeping your religion in your four core cities is easy.

    Tithe is nice because (1) it gives a benefit from you own cities, and (2) cities do not need to have your religion as the majority to be giving you gold. Aside from converting CS as requested for quests, I never get much from religion. OTOH, I always try for a religion because it makes the game a little bit more interesting.
     
  8. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    My copious reloading caused me to believe that, on turn t-1, bribing civ A to dow civ B (on turn t-1) would always prevent them from DOWing you on turn t. Only now do I learn that is not 100% reliable!
     
  9. daheat43

    daheat43 Chieftain

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    Just finished this, even though too late to turn in. It was first Deity win! Super fun and interesting way to play. The cultural victory requirement made me try to play peacefully and build, which is probably why I didn't get slaughtered as in previous deity attempts. I was first to Frigates, and things rolled from there. SUPER annoying, as others have mentioned, to discover Civ didn't disappear when I took their last city. But at least conquest stopped their culture growing and gave me their great works and wonders. Fun game.

    - How useful was your UA?
    Super useful. Incredible, actually. I've played Babylon before, but I forgot how powerful that UA is. I had like 8 academies, and bulbed a bunch of scientists after Plastics. Never got the UN vote for tourism from improvements, though -- others wouldn't pass it.

    - Did you use spying to your advantage?
    A little. I stole one tech from maybe 2/3 of the Civ before I had eclipsed everyone. Later Siam got ahead of me to Telecommunications, but that was because I went after nukes first.

    - Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
    Map helped a ton. My other deity attempts were Pangea and Continents. Pangea I always got killed. Continents I had one valiant attempt that unfortunately wound up with my cavalry facing great war bombers on the other continent. I gave up.

    - How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
    Came out swinging. I realized early on that I wouldn't be able to win culturally, first because I couldn't even maintain an alliance with the cultural CS next door, and second because I could see Siam was running away culturally. So that made me switch to military really early.

    - What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
    Tradition tree complete, one point in Aesthetics (before I realized what I was doing), then filled out most or all of Rationalism before going on to Autocracy. Filled the first tree in Autocracy with the Tourism Tier 3 one, then went back for a point in exploration before deciding to take more in Autocracy. Back to that for the Clauzewitz Legacy (which was really just icing on the cake by then since my battleship/sub/nuke army was wrecking civs). Then realized I had time to finish Aesthetics, so I did that. (Obviously not a pro culture player; should've done that sooner.) Then I think I had one more policy in Autocracy, taking Fortified Borders since -- for the first time -- I was having to worry about happiness in the last few turns of the game. I did a lot of liberating cities throughout to keep up relationships, and also purely gave away some conquered cities to manage happiness.

    - What techs did you prioritize ?
    Science primarily, then military. Mostly I did the standard University-Public School-Research Lab route, with some detours for things like frigates and atomic weapons.

    - Did you try and get a sacred site victory?
    I always forget about that strategy! Far from it, I only had two of my own cities -- Babylon, and Akkad in the north. Most of the game, Babylon built buildings and wonders while Akkad churned out units. I totally screwed up on religion, forgetting to work the natural wonder for many turns. So I got a relatively late religion and had bad choices. I don't even know what it gave me -- nothing useful. Oops.

    Curious now to play another small islands deity game that's not GOTM to see if I can really win deity now. Though maybe not right away -- that was tough, and there is a lot of clicking in destroying all those units! Filling the honor tree would have been rad for bringing in gold.
     

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