TSG 236 After Actions Thread

[vadalaz]

In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

Quick links: Upload submission | Announcement thread | Opening Actions

- In what order did you conquer the capitals? Who was the toughest foe?
- How many armies did you have, and what was their composition? Did you use the War Elephants?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
- Which Ideology did you choose?

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Domination victory turn 225. Kind of.

As stated in the Openings Actions thread, I first had two aborted attempts, and one failed one. My fourth attempt was similar to my third: set up three cities, and then sim to a tech advantage. In the third game, this failed when Attila attacked. In the fourth, I built a handful more war elephants, and did not let the units I had wander off. Initially, in both the third and the fourth attempt, Attila was surprisingly hard to bribe to attack into other civs, and early game I did not have enough to offer. In the fourth game, I did finally managed to convince him to attack Aztec, and when that war was over, he still did not want to attack Greece but I managed to convince him to attack Florence, and after that (perhaps because he now bordered Greece?) he finally did agree to war Greece. That means he never attacked me, and my game actually proceeded very smoothly.

Meanwhile the rest of the continent was a mess of irr-warring and backstabbing. As a result, no-one was building any wonders and I got Petra in the cap turn 87. On the same turn 87 Temple of Artemis in an expand (!), thanks guys. Hanging gardens was built in one of my otherwise garden-less expands (real men go Honor or Liberty, so uncontested), and I got Oracle upon entering Renaissance. At this point of the game, I might have opted to build units instead of infrastructure or wonders, although I find medieval warfare to be very slow against war-like AI. It's not impossible to make progress, but it often turns into a protracted war, so then it feels easier to just race to plastics and waltz them with infantry, which is more or less what I did: factories (a nice 3-coal node in my own lands) into public schools into artillery, into plastics. I did make a small detour to navigation. I had gone astronomy anyway for my two observatory cities, so I build around 10 galleas from my two coastals and upgraded them into frigates. However, I was just a ship or two short: Attila's court had Red Fort, and that is always a frigate killer. At the end I had four left, with range, but each time he sent a ship out of that city I had to shoot that first. I finally took Attila's court when the first arty arrived from the other side, delivering a more potent shot.

By that time, around turn 200, I had infantry and artillery, and it was just a matter of walking past all the capitals, as riflemen and cannons cannot stand against them. To help with the final capital, I had 9 bombers and a few paratroopers.

Oh, the missiles! Early in the war with Attila, I used them on some units that were sneaking around the back, but they were laughably bad. I required two of my information-era missiles to shoot down one medieval era crossbow. No wonder no-one ever builds them. I suppose they are only to be used up until the classical era .

 

[Bosskhazen]

First Deity Game and it went as expected : I lost my capital at turn 104 and abandoned the game.
I even forgot that I had the missile and didn't use them to save my capital.

 

[lerrocco]

I gave up on turn 140.
Following on from turn 100 shown in the Opening action thread. I left an archer and a spearman next to Copenhagen and gathered the army around Monte's capital, which I took easily once I researched xbows.

My army arrived at Copenhagen as Shaka had almost taken it, and I took the city with one attack, Shaka did all the work. I had completed the Honor tree at this stage.

But now all my game mistakes had come to haunt me. Domination is possible with a quick and bold advance. I was too slow to start, not building the courthouse in Atilla's court was a stupid error that set me back. I compounded the mistake by not utilizing the Pool of Life. I further compounded the mistakes by building Petra, when I should have kept building units, as I did find the gold to upgrade everything. I ended up with a game long alliance with Hong Kong. I made another mistake by taking the right hand side of the Honor tree, when I should have gone for double combat experience. I usually have logistics to take the last two remaining civs. This error was compounded by not getting the experience from taking out 3 cities with the missiles.

Too many mistakes. Too slow.

I had huge problems seeing my army in grasslands and forests, but in all terrains when they had moved. This is my last Gandhi play, unless I decide to have another attempt at this game. It is so much easier to be able to glance at the map and see your army! I ended up scrolling through units before important plays, just to take in what units I had to play with. You get a feel for what I mean by looking at the map below. I have 7 crossbows east of Bulawayo, and I cant see them (am I colour blind? hehe) but Shaka's crossbow is easy to spot. I had killed his musketmen by the time of this screenshot.

Shaka was tech leader as well as being Shaka, at least I keep my run going by never beating Shaka on Deity.

I attacked Shaka just to see how I would get on, and his Musketmen (eek) and Impis just walked through me. I could have defended against him, but not attack him.

I could have sat it out and worked towards artillery, but this is when 'standard' civ 5 play is needed, population and libraries / universities and other infrastructure. I repeat myself, a win with no tech, just a rapid advance is possible, but it has to be done before the AI opponents get too far ahead on tech. Shaka was about to attack me anyway, and he was way ahead in tech at this stage.

I have been playing with slow game speeds lately, and realize now just how much of a crutch it is. On slow game speeds I would have been at Shaka before he had muskets. I did take Bulawayo three times, and he re-captured, but I was on a suicide mission at this point. (In a serious attack I may have taken Aarhus first, keep one front towards Shaka.)

Is this game possible with a Honor only army build? Possibly yes, but it is tough. The game has to be won around turns 150-200 or so, depending on the opponents.

I think I had the correct missile strategy, use them early.

This is my final map, turn 127. At this point is was obvious I wont get further with my strategy. Just waiting around to die. I razed Vibourg to get back to + happiness. I dont know civ 5 well enough to mount a survival strategy from this point. I was never going to get ahead of Shaka with tech or number of units.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

The game has to be won around turns 150-200 or so, depending on the opponents.

Well, maybe someone will manage that, but judging from the posts in the opening actions thread so far, that's not going to be more than one or two players. If you look at GotM 213 (which I tried briefly, but I was playing very poorly and decided to try other previous GotM), you will see that there is one player that managed to clear the map using chariots and composite bowmen, but the other players all had a more measured approach to the game. For this game, I'm not sure an all-in war, ignore-science approach is going to work, especially if Shaka is strong (in my successful playthrough he actually died to the other civs), as you would be fighting the Deity AI when it's at its strongest.

Most victories in Civ are just a science victory in disguise, and after you successfully took out Monty and Attila, I think you could have simmed on three capitals, raced to plastics and then go to work on the remaining civs with infantry. By the way, I would have instantly razed Viborg. The city looks terrible, and its only use would be to general into Copenhagen.

 

[basior]

Turn 138 DomV

After like 4-5 attempts I finally settled on a good old CB rush -> Xbows.
It took me some time to realize a nice way to take advantage of Guided Missiles. Being no1 in military, except for tributing with spear man (occupies your spearman and nets you around 2-4x55gold), is super useful in gaining good peace deals. With that in mind I DoWed everyone I've met and waited for a juicy peace deal to come. Gained around 500-600 gold that way (usually around 50-180 per deal).

My first victim was Attila. I stole 2 early workers form him with a help of a spear upgrade and 1 missile. Then after 2 quick Liberty expos I captured Attila's Court with 2-3 archers, a spear and 4 missiles. It wasn't the best idea as just after capturing and making peace he got several rams and HA in place and I had to defend the premises instead of marching soon with CB on Monty. On a plus side - XP from extended Attila war and boot camping on Hong Kong gave me GG to annex FoY land for great happiness boost.

After I've dealt with a situation (it took around 20-30 turns to regroup and gain new momentum) I've marched on Monty with some pre build roads. Got plenty of workers form steals, pyramids, bards etc. Monty was no1 in military sos I paid him to DoW Harald and get some of his military out of his exposed capital. War started around turn 90 and cap was down around t97.

Techwise I decided to go Cb into NC for faster XB. Then was the decision (when getting Library GP) to either go all in on remaining 3 civs with nicely trained Xbows (~t95) for to tech Education and rush for Arty. Decided for a hybrid approach - wich turned out a bad idea as should have gone all in as always . Basically after training one army of around 6-7 CBs 1 super promoted spearman and 2 Elephants I decided to get fastest Machinery possible and then go for Education with Arty in mind (didn't know how strong is Shaka). That resulted in building Petra and Aquetducts in all cities instead of barracks and military.

After getting Machinery game gained some momentum. I ve tried to pre build roads ahead of my army. Harald was left with only a cap and 2-3 units so I took it realty fast. Then proceeded to fight the Impis By the time I got there with my army (around turn 110-115) I ditched education and went military so I had a couple of knights to support my promoted Xbows . As everyone knows knights are crap vs Impis but fight took place on ruins of Araahus so I got plenty tiles to pillage/heal and use them as cannon fodder.

After Shaka's army gone it was an easy ride form now on. Took Ulundi with 3 Logistics/RAnge promoted Xbows as it had GW. Worth mentioning was an interesting decision a coplue turns before to make. Shall I keep Araahus at pop 1 and claim land near Ulundi with w GG - for easier capture or raze it a have pillage/heal tiles for meatshield Knights. Went for the second options I 3 of my Xbows was almost at logistics+range lvl.

Despite being no1 in military Alexander was super easy. Ive spammed some knight before for shielding a Xbows plus a trebuchet took care of the rest.

To sum it up it was a great game and I learned a whole lot form it. Most important things were:
-army promotions
-adjusting your tactics to well scouted opponents sitiation
-diplomacy
-taking care of GPT (I ve had some problems around ~t60-70 bout was saved by Initation Rites)

 

[lerrocco]

Well, maybe someone will manage that,

Maybe Basior will

Most victories in Civ are just a science victory in disguise, and after you successfully took out Monty and Attila, I think you could have simmed on three capitals, raced to plastics and then go to work on the remaining civs with infantry. By the way, I would have instantly razed Viborg. The city looks terrible, and its only use would be to general into Copenhagen.

I watched filthy robots' guides and he describes just that. Civ 5 seems to be a population dominated strategy, unlike civ 4. I am maybe 20 games into civ 5 now and I do enjoy it, but these days it is hard to find the time to play much, so I reverted to my civ 4 tactics, and they do work in here, in a limited fashion, and this game was always at the edge of my strategy / ability. I probably wouldn't have attempted it without the missile start.

I razed Vibourg to 1 pop and used it to heal troops. I kept it alive just in case i needed a defensive / withdraw tactic against Shaka. Once I had Copenhagen I razed it completely.

I made too many errors, simple as that. I might go again with what I learned.

I might even reload this game, just to try the sim option for the first time, but that Indian green badge colour is a disaster. That should have been picked up by the developers.

 

[basior]

I agree with the science thing. In domination it’s esential to have an science edge to time that machinery/arty/flight/etc ahead of the AI

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Maybe Basior will

Yeah, I had to eat my words almost immediately

 

[lerrocco]

I agree with the science thing. In domination it’s esential to have an science edge to time that machinery/arty/flight/etc ahead of the AI

Can you give me a quick and dirty guide as to when you built your libraries, for example. Did you still race to get NC? You obviously managed both the troops and the tech, I am missing the tech strategy for my cb/xb rush..

 

[basior]

Sure thing but I think this topic is deeper than just tech. Early game is all about making a sum of small advantages into a nice momentum later turns.

Im talking about things like worker steals, chopping forests to grow your cities the fastest. It can be seen on some LPs - for example you can check RezoAcken's China game

But to address your question - tech wise its pretty straightforward. I beeline CB first (after first column of tech) with a possible detour to calendar. Also make sure you will have ~500 gold to upgrade your archers (train them on barbs and a CS you stole worker from).

Then beeline Philosophy and get ready with libraries before it finishes. You can help SPT with a caravan if you can connect it to different civ than your first victim (the earlier the better). I prefer to build it without GE and use GS instead for Machinery (is a all in approach for maps winnable with just XB).

Rest is just a beeline to Machinery. If you got 6-7 promoted CBs, gold for upgrades and and some skill with army movement its hard to loose prebuilding roads and Pyramids for pillage/heal also helps!

Good luck with next games

 

[lerrocco]

Great, thanks. I am almost there. The worker steals I now have, in fact in my first attempt at this game I stole 3 workers! In my second attempt I didnt manage one, I had a slow start. Chopping forests I also do.

The main difference is I was ignoring the Philosophy route, i was going straight from cbs to machinery, ignoring the science, in the hope I was fast enough to win before the AI got too far ahead with their tech. Certainly on Immortal and on tiny maps this is fairly easy.

My gaming strategy is ok, it¡s why I play, I have been wargaming in some capacity for almost 40 years now.. wow, I'm getting old hehe... I started with civ 2 just after it came out.

I think I am a little over cautious with my cb attacks, perhaps I wait too long for the xbs.

 

[lerrocco]

But to address your question - tech wise its pretty straightforward. I beeline CB first (after first column of tech) with a possible detour to calendar. Also make sure you will have ~500 gold to upgrade your archers (train them on barbs and a CS you stole worker from).

Then beeline Philosophy and get ready with libraries before it finishes. You can help SPT with a caravan if you can connect it to different civ than your first victim (the earlier the better). I prefer to build it without GE and use GS instead for Machinery (is a all in approach for maps winnable with just XB).

Rest is just a beeline to Machinery. If you got 6-7 promoted CBs, gold for upgrades and and some skill with army movement its hard to loose prebuilding roads and Pyramids for pillage/heal also helps!

Might be interesting to put this here, it is the opening moves again, so in the wrong thread, but ...
I ended up doing exactly what you suggested.. it was forced on me..
Had a restart, amazing, ruins for promotion, pop, culture, mining and then faith ! in Shaka's land.. fast start.. then i messed up Attila and was too slow, had to restart..
Restart ruins, upgrade, barbs, map. really slow start. Monte got off to a flier, way ahead. After killing Attila rest declared war on me. Greek army arrived, joke really, good xp. Now I am sat by Florence, and never underestimate the stupidity of the AI, i have been capturing florence for a few turns now, releasing it, killing lots of Greek units for no loss, and he keeps putting troops on boats..

Monte could have wiped me out but ignored me completely, he is going west along the coast mopping up CS, he offered a dof, which i took, before greece attacked, so he declared war on the Greeks..Monte has desert folklore and worked hard to spread it to all my cities.. hehe.. faith from nowhere, and good faith..

So 3 city NC, built a fourth after for the gold and iron by Hong Kong. and now i I have xbows at turn 102 or so, and now many are close to logistics.. I only got xbows on turn 117 on my failed game above, and they weren't promoted. So a big difference in the set up, but I havent conquered anyone except Attila yet (used all my missiles). I have poor culture, but did get the double xp early (but only 1 more policy since). This is turn 112 by way of comparison, a standard civ 5 game I suppose.

Im about to go say hello to Alexander.. then Shaka? or I sit back further and tech to plastics? I will get a nose bleed past the Medieval age

I'll post the loss later.. hehe.. monte could win with any number of victory conditions before my conquest. Might have to back stab before he does it to me..

 

[fiddlesticks]

Domination victory turn 167

The capitals went Tenochtitlan (73 - 1 guided missile), Attila's Court (113 - 4 guided missiles. Attila has the great wall, so this saved my army from getting chewed up before getting the essential range and logistics promotions), Copenhagen (129, Harald's last city and assisted by the Greeks), Ulundi (156, this was captured and recaptured twice, making sure to save my capture unit. You'll see in the pictures how I used great generals to open up a path and block and wound the hordes of impi's. The method I used to take it down was to rotate 4 range/logistics war elephants and get 8 comp-bow strength shots per turn. That took about 7-8 turns), finally Athens (167, with the help of 3 cannons and with most of the Greek army away attacking Attila's last city this was a 2 turn walkover, although I did have to keep a garrison over on the Zulu front since Shaka was never going to take a peace deal.)

I went Liberty to Rebublic, then Honour to Military Tradition, then finished Liberty and used a scientist to speed up gunpowder. I never built the NC in this one, and feel like the lack of science slowed me down. If I tried again I would get the NC earlier.

 

[raider980]

T170 Resigned. There is no hope for the Indian Empire.

Continuing from Opening Actions.
T101 Alex asks me to go to war against Shaka. Sure I say.
T103 Darn, Atilla finally builds a city off to my east; just when I started to build a settler last turn.
T110 Atilla looks like he may be about to attack so I bribe him to go after Alex. Wasted kind of, they don't ever appear to actually have fought.
T111 Shaka lost his capital to Harold.
T126 I get a religion, say what? Darn, I should have taken DF.
T147 The beginning of the end. Atilla DoW me for the second time. And he's got Muskets, XB and Knights against my Pikes, XB, and Elephants.

Spoiler :

Spoiler T161 Delhi lost. :

T169 Good grief, Denmark got an ideology already.
T170 Resigned. My worker population outnumbers my military population lol. Atilla even burned Mumbai to the ground. Who burns a city to the ground right next to the Fountain of Youth! Especially after building all those crappy cities in bad locations; like one tile from the coast.

I thought I had a chance for a while there. I should have gone after Atilla back when I went after Monte. Atilla is the real danger in this game. But I don't think it would have ultimately mattered since Harold got an ideology on T169; he was way way ahead of me. An awesome scenario and a lot of fun!

 

[sebtanic]

Especially after building all those crappy cities in bad locations; like one tile from the coast.

Yeah, one tile from the coast seems to be the AIs preferred location

 

[Rhodro]

Also finally after a few attempts got a win at turn 254, with xcom's stealth bombers and 2 nukes.
This is a pretty difficult game. India has a slow start with the happiness hit from number of cities. On top of that warmonger AI's known for rushing like atilla and monty next to us.
In this attempt I capped atilla early with 2 missiles, 1 spearman and like 2 or 3 scouts. After that I sim citied with 5 - 6 cities to xcom, stealth bomber, nukes.
When I got paratroopers I started with monty, then went for alex. Shaka was capped by denmark, so I dow-ed him last and capped his 2 capitals.

I wish I could have used the 3 left over missles better (on monty's capital preferably), but monty was defending quite well, it was difficult to get close with compbows. So I went from sim city instead.

I went tradition, thinking Monarchy was gonna help me big time, but when I got it it only gave me 1 happiness lol? Strange interaction with India. I also took honor, rationalism, order. Free courthouses from order is nice so I could annex every conquered city.

 

[sebtanic]

What does "sim" / "sim city" mean in this context? Seen it several times now in this forum and don't understand.

 

[fiddlesticks]

I think it means just building infrastructure and ignoring expansion or conquest.

 

[lerrocco]

What does "sim" / "sim city" mean in this context? Seen it several times now in this forum and don't understand.

Way back in the day there was civ 2, and it's boring rival was a computer game called sim city, the game was only about building infrastructure. Building cities.