TSG 236 Opening Actions Thread

vadalaz

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Sep 15, 2014
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This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

Quick links: Upload submission | Announcement thread | After actions

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- How did the extra starting units affect your early game? Have you used them already?
- Any trouble with the neighbors?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
 
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Wow, this is a tough one. So far, I've had two aborted games, and one lost one. Guess I won't be submitting any official entry for this one.

My first thought was: top military, let's tribute! Indeed I could, but you still need some military next to the city state. I did not get a spearman upgrade for my first attempt, so I built a warrior, bought another one, and finally I could tribute, but only two city states for a total of some 110 gold. In the meantime, I was being severely crippled by the unit limit. It had been mentioned in the announcement thread, but I had not really taken it to heart, so I was suffering a 30% production penalty while building my first settler. I felt the game was going nowhere, so I restarted.

For my second attempt, I wanted to make some early use of the missiles, so I planted a city near Tenochtitlan, and tried to capture the city. I could: two missile shots and then capture the city, making sure I had an entry without getting zone-of-controlled. Of course, then I hold Tenochtitlan, but it's surrounded by 10 Aztec units. I sold the city to Shaka, hoping to retake it later, which I eventually did (spending another two missiles because I could not spare units, fighting a preventive war against Attila), but the problem was not solved. Monty was down but not out, with three cities surrounding his capital. When he declared war and took his city back (I paid for a war against Harald, but their hearts were not in it and they made peace), I abandoned my second attempt as well. I was not dead yet, and looked like I was even getting Petra, but I had spent 4 of my missiles with little to show for it. I tend not to enjoy my games when they are very slow, so I decided to try once more.

Before my third attempt I asked myself: what good do these missiles actually do? Initially, they are a hindrance besides the tribute potential: at 3-pop you may have your starting warrior and two scouts, but anything above that and you get a major production penalty. I considered selling them, but they only net 37 a piece. So I concluded they should be used against Attila to aid with a war against him, and then later worry about the rest of the map. Unfortunately, my third attempt did not work out that way. Armed with map knowledge, I toured the city states with my spearman (new random seed looks to be off, so if you walk northeast you will get an upgrade ruin turn 2 or so), collected the tribute which I used to buy an archer and a war elephant, and set about getting my sim going in preparation for war. In total I had built two settlers, a shrine, a granary, a caravan and most of a watermill when he attacked. I had expected the missiles could be used to ward off an attack, but 5 'free kills' did not save me when he brought an army of 20 (also my spearman and archer were out of position, but they would not have been sufficient to defend, either. Delhi captured, turn 63.

I might have a final attempt, but I will need to change my tack (probably declare war on him so he does not send a big army at once), or be lucky that he simply does not attack.
Ghandi_failure.png
 
I just saved on turn 63 as well.

I had problems with the EUI, which I do like, but it crashed a few times and it slows my computer down. I couldnt capture a Greek settler with an archer, it always wanted to shoot it.
So I stripped EUI and reloaded. So a kinda cheat, but my second game had fewer huts and a much slower start. I got lucky lucky with a barb camp clearance and trade route to Hong Kong for +10 happiness (2 luxuries +2)

I started playing this thinking I wont get far. I have never beaten Shaka on Deity, but hes in the best spot. In my first game I built Mumbai and then attacked the Huns. On my reload I went straight after the Huns, their 3rd city was in range of the fireworks and was easy with warrior and upgraded Spearman. Moved the fireworks, took Atilla's Court easy enough and then killed them off hastily for the loss of a scout and a warrior. I have played the restart straight through, quite sloppily.

I took big happiness hits but got back on my feet after razing 2 cities. I am close to a courthouse in Atilla's court. Just started researching writing hehe.
I have Desert Folklore, just, for my first faith points.

The Aztecs and the Danes have just declared war on me. Monte is all mouth and no trousers, so some xp for my newly upgraded comp bows and a couple of elephants just coming online. I am in Honor, about to get Military Caste.

This game would be above my skill level, normally,and maybe still is. The Danes and Shaka will be tough, but I have my back to the Sea and one missile left. I dont have time for this... blah blah.. just one more turn...
 

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- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
Before the game, Gandhi is at the limit of my ability, but those rockets are game changing. Like the Huns on Speed.

When I saw the Huns behind me, the start was obvious. It's a nice map to defend now they are out of the way. Everyone hates me already, so I must be doing something right.

- How did the extra starting units affect your early game? Have you used them already?
Yes, Deity has all the cards stacked in its favour at the start, only time to use them is to get into the game.
I would have liked to keep 2 back, but the last Hun city took 2 missiles for some reason??

- Any trouble with the neighbors?
not yet .. 🚀

- What tech path did you follow and why?
all over the place, for luxuries, courthouse but looking for comp bows as soon as possible. Next beline is to xbows. Elephants are distraction but may be fun.

- What Social Policies did you choose?
This is Domination, this is Sparta, Honor

- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
Just got Desert folklore, ignored religion completely and got lucky. Only Monte has a religion, and hes next on the Menu, Stonehenge for me..
 
I might have a final attempt, but I will need to change my tack (probably declare war on him so he does not send a big army at once), or be lucky that he simply does not attack.
I just read your victory. Well done. I think you have the correct strategy. My gung-ho approach is going to be hard in here, Shaka just got terracotta army and I was 14 turns defending Monte. I am new in civ 5, in civ 4 I would consolidate now, build the libraries and tech. I havent played far into civ 5, and these days when I do play it is small and tiny maps.

I think my attempt at all out war will fall short in this game. But I will continue for the fun. I havent played India in civ 5, and might never again, simply as I can barely see the units, their colours just camouflage into the map.

I have no idea what is happening in the game, Shaka and the Danes are now at war and Monte also declared war on the Danes. He cant fight on 2 fronts. I have a sense of impending doom with Shaka, but for now he has left me alone.

My units survived and many got promotions. I have an army to take to Monte now, see how I get on. My alliance with Hong Kong expired, thinking of settling the fountain of youth, but decided on a couple of circuses until (if) I take Tenochtitlan. Now my army is more or less gathered I might pick up some infrastructure.
 
Okay, let's just say I know now why no one ever builds Guided Missiles :lol:

I'm going to abort my first attempt too. My plan was to spam archers and upgrade them to CBs ASAP. Went after Attila first, but he had already settled 3 expos. I managed to take the closest one to my capital, but he easily took it back with his battering rams. On the second attempt, I razed it.

Then I tried to take another of his expos, but the terrain wasn't in my favor at all. I was able to conquer it with the help of a missile strike, but 3 of his battering rams were already approaching. ONE ram was enough to take it back.

Also, Attila had easily taken my two city state allies Florence and whatever the other one was west of Florence.

At the same time, Monty appeared on the doorstep of my capital with a massive army. So I had to make peace with Attila.

I had 4 CBs by this time, 2 War Elephants, and 2 or 3 spearmen. After decimating Montys army near my capital, I sent them to the fountain of youth to heal faster. I was able to take a measly 1-pop expo that Monty had just built between his capital and mine, and put my remaining 2 Guided Missiles there. However while going for his capital I got swamped in Aztec units. They took out my army one by one. Even my Missiles wouldn't make more than a small dent in the capitals defenses. Hell, they can't even take out a Swordsman on a hill! What kind of crappy weapon is this?

If I have time for a replay, I will use all the missiles as soon as possible and try to wipe out either Attila or Monty completely.
 
The early exploration was rather successful, since I managed to capture a camp for Florence and release their worker. The alliance helped me to eventually hurry Petra with my free republic engineer a few turns before turn 100. The exploration phase also netted 3 workers, two from CSs and one from Greece. I dared take the Greek one because I had a spearman, who, incidentally, still survived until turn 100 and can be seen in the citadel in my last screenshot. The exploration phase is not over yet, by the way. There appears to be three city states that I have not met, having been totally immersed in war.

The missiles were soon used up to defend against the rabid dog, Attila the Hun(d). (Dog is "hund" in Swedish.) I wish I had had just one or two left, but I barely survived the onslaught anyway. Then it was the Aztecs turn to declare war but it was easier to defend against them. In order to avoid two fronts I paid my only spice and silver to Attila to declare war on Montezuma too.

The reason I came so close to annihilation was perhaps my builder's faiblesse. I built not only monument and library quite early, but also shrine. The shrine was useful, though, since I was able to get Desert Folklore with just 10 faith. Such an early pantheon is pretty remarkable, but luckily meeting Kathmandu before anyone else helped.

The sad news is that I was unable to capture the nearest Aztec town. When I decided to attack it, it had a defence of just 17, but by the time I had cleared out Monty's troops, it was at 34. I got the defence down to just a third, but then two knights showed up and started to cut up my elephants like butter.:cry: Then they allied themselves with Hong Kong, who immediately started swarming around my eastern town. Time for peace. At least I took a bite of Monty's land and Dehli promises to become a magnificent city.

If I were to predict the future from the present, a scientific or diplomatic victory seems possible, but not a domination victory. Still, I guess I will have to try.

What an amazing game setup! All the worst AIs and then the missiles to fend them off - a great idea, thanks!

Screenshot 1: The gruesome attack from the Huns
Screenshot 2: The turn when they finally granted me peace. Note how the workers escape in panic.
Screenshot 3: The Aztecs attack and I decide to make the Huns my enemy's enemy. They didn't help out much, though, the selfish scoundrels.
Screenshot 4: Turn 100. The outcome of the Aztec war. Not great, but a small victory. PS: The amphitheater build in Mumbai was changed to pikeman - will I ever learn? Maybe.
 

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Moderator Action: Just to clarify, a few comments about spoiler threads:

Once you open the save game file, you should not post in the Announcement thread for fear of spoiling the game for someone else.

You should not post references from final AAR thread in this thread. Why would you read the AAR thread before you finish the game yourself as it might spoil your game?

You may replay a save and post about it, please let other players know it is not you first play through.

You may post in the Opening Action thread on a second play through, but please be sensitive to what you post as you may provide information about your post 100 turns original play through that can spoil another player's game.
It is important to consider your fellow players and doing everything we can to not ruin their game by reading spoilers.

Thanks.
 
This is a very annoying mistake that I've made countless times. You must remember to use this button to move into the settler's tile:
I did this and it still didnt work.
However, when I reloaded minus the EUI I still had 'problems'. It turned out the problem was that the settler or worker disappears when captured, only to show up at the start of the next turn, I think this is what was confusing me. And with the EUI it actually shot arrows despite me using the move button.

The game is smoother and doesnt crash when I dont use the EUI so i will keep it off for now.
 
Okay, let's just say I know now why no one ever builds Guided Missiles :lol:

If you use the missiles at the start of the game, it is easy to kill or cripple an opponent. The down side of doing this is that my archers are missing out on the xp, which is starting to show now and maybe means i am not at my usual promotion levels when I need to be later in the game. Good job its only Shaka and the Danes, else it might be tricky....:lol:
 
If you use the missiles at the start of the game, it is easy to kill or cripple an opponent. The down side of doing this is that my archers are missing out on the xp, which is starting to show now and maybe means i am not at my usual promotion levels when I need to be later in the game. Good job its only Shaka and the Danes, else it might be tricky....:lol:
Yes, I think it's best to use them quickly, while they still have the capacity to one-shot-kill some enemy units. Then build up a decent army of your own without the production penalty.

That said, it's still a fun idea to add them to the Xmas game! :)
 
I used my last missile to help take Tlatelolco with the loss of one cb, which was nice.

Can someone help a newbie... If i settle next to the fountain of youth, with its +10 happiness, how much surplus happiness will that leave me with with 4 or 5 cities? Is it worth it? I have barbarian rebellions to deal with with my current unhappiness, though if i can take Tenochtitlan (Monte only has 3 units left, so I hope I can) .. that will help as it has salt and i will raze Tlatelolco.
 
I did this and it still didnt work.
However, when I reloaded minus the EUI I still had 'problems'. It turned out the problem was that the settler or worker disappears when captured, only to show up at the start of the next turn, I think this is what was confusing me. And with the EUI it actually shot arrows despite me using the move button.

The game is smoother and doesnt crash when I dont use the EUI so i will keep it off for now.
Ok, this was the usual problem: operator error hehe.
I simply cant see the unit flag when it is not highlighted. I just captured another worker and thought it had disappeared, but it was invisible in the forest tile behind the unit that captured it. I am genuinely struggling to see my units on my laptop. My bad, there is no game bug, but my comments re EUI are still good.
 
Can someone help a newbie... If i settle next to the fountain of youth, with its +10 happiness, how much surplus happiness will that leave me with with 4 or 5 cities? Is it worth it? I have barbarian rebellions to deal with with my current unhappiness, though if i can take Tenochtitlan (Monte only has 3 units left, so I hope I can) .. that will help as it has salt and i will raze Tlatelolco.
Founding a new city as India generates 6 global and 0.5 local unhappiness on a Small map, so settling next to FoY immediately nets +3.5 happiness.
 
Second game went better. I DOWed Attila first, razed one of his expos, then fended off Monty's army without taking any of his cities. When his army retreated, I went after Attila again. Took his capital and thus eliminated the Huns on turn 117.

I now have:

My capital, Attila's court, and one Hunnic expo that I kept.
2 elephants, 3 Pikes or so, and loads of Xbows. Some of them range and/or logistics promoted.
Annexed the Fountain of Youth with a citadel. (I always have too many GGs.)

Plan:
My army should be strong enough to take down Monty. Then tech to Artillery and take down the other two (Greece is already out).
 
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I am still in this game!
I gathered to attack Tenochtitlan but Monte built a wall and I cant take the city with compbows. I checked on the peace options and he was going to give me Teotihuacan, so i moved a general and an elephant next to the salt, razed Tlatelolco and accepted the deal, planted a citadel to take the salt and leave a perfect set up to take the capital later when i have crossbows.

Another mistake! I forgot to finish the courthouse in Atilla's Court.. idiot!.. that gave me +10 happiness and got me back to positive happiness.

The Greeks tried a sneak attack against Atilla's Court so i sent an elephant to intercept and saw his army not far behind.. eek.. a couple of elephants held them off, concentrating on his melee units.. but I wasnt sure I could defend it so I paid Shaka silver for 30 turns for his DOW against the Greeks, and guess what, they withdrew hehe..

I cautiously approached the Danes and found not one unit, he is full time defending against Shaka, Copehangen is being attacked. So I walked into Vibourg with no opposition!

I am 20 or so turns away from crossbows, but I have no gold for the upgrades. I got my religion, but Monte had enhanced his own religion several times so the cupboard was bare, but I did get pagodas. I went for the 100gp per new city, a futile attempt at paying for my upgrades.

I think Shaka has his impi now, and I am struggling for money. I am not optimistic about my chances, but I will continue and hope to get lucky or find a way to make money.

Another newbie question, If Shaka takes Copenhagen, do I still need to take that city also for the domination win (yeah, as if .. hehe) or just Take Shaka's capital?

Spoiler map at T90 :

Screenshot_2023-12-29_03-13-29.png


 
Another newbie question, If Shaka takes Copenhagen, do I still need to take that city also for the domination win (yeah, as if .. hehe) or just Take Shaka's capital?
You need to control all the original capitals to trigger domination victory, so you'll have to take Copenhagen even if Shaka manages to capture it.
 
Turn 100. All quiet on all fronts. My army is impotent, 10 turns or so to crossbows.

Shaka gave me an embassy and open borders for 2 iron, so I am using an elephant and a worker to explore.

Shaka is making zero progress against Copenhagen, just losing all his troops. It is a stalemate. I was hoping Shaka could take him down and I could sneak in with a last minute attack. Will have to wait this one out. Nothing is happening for 10 turns or so.

I will have Petra in 10 turns. Normally I would just build troops but I dont have the upgrade money and if this does go long term, and it might, I will be happy to have it. All my western front is sacrificial at the moment.

I am chopping Harald's forests down around Copenhagen to build walls in Vibourg... how ridiculous is that? hehe.

Harald wants to give me Ribe for peace, size 5 walled 18 defence city , if I could take the unhappiness I might consider it, but for now I sit and wait.

I guess that's me in this thread then? Up to turn 100 or so. Thanks for all your input, I dont think I have the time to invest in learning civ 5 so i will continue my tiny map domination runs just to keep the grey matter ticking over. I might take on another domination game in the future.. But seriously, the time ! I have been at this more than 25 years now.. Civ 4 was like a comfy old slipper... old dogs.. new tricks?

I will take this game to the distance and see where I end up.

Turn 100 map below.
Spoiler T100. All quiet. :

100 up.png


 
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