TSG 240 Opening Actions Thread

[vadalaz]

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

Quick links: Upload submission | Announcement thread | After actions

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- What tech path did you follow and why? Are you planning to use Mohawk Warriors?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

 

[raider980]

On T97 now, been a fun one so far. The Iroquois are usually fun to play early game despite not being the best civ around. Don't play small maps much but this one doesn't "feel" that small, which is good.

Before starting the game I debated whether to play traditionally or go for Mohawk warriors early. Since the Longhouse is on the same path as the Mohawk I decided to beeline that and try to warmonger early. Tech path was: Pottery, AH, Archery, got Writing from a ruin - perfect, I don't have to deviate from heading toward Mohawks, Mining, TheWheel, BW, Trapping, Masonry, Construction, straight to Mohawks.

After opening the game and seeing that neither of the tiles we were talking about settling in the Announcement thread were hills, I moved the warrior SW and spied two ruins already, then settled in place.

The first ruin revealed a map - but a good one, Mt. Killi! I found a lot of ruins this game, the rest were: Advanced Unit (Spear), 90 Gold, Pop - right after growing to 2!, Map, Writing!, 20 Faith for a pantheon which was awesome since I hadn't built a Shrine, Pop!

Went full Tradition but haven't even finished it yet; did not find a Culture ruin. For build order I didn't go for a second scout right away since its a small map; but later realized I'd need one.

I was worried about happiness since our capital only had one lux; and there didn't seem to be that many around to settle either. But then my scout found FoY! That was my first expo, Osinnka - and I had enough money to buy the FoY tile and a bit later buy tiles to connect Osinnka to the capital with forests.

For pantheon I chose Messenger of the Gods. There wasn't really a perfect pantheon for this map and since I knew I could connect my first expo with forest tiles I went with MoG for an early extra 4 science, which took me from 9 to 13 science, pretty good! I don't have a religion yet and there's only one more so I may not get one; but that's ok, MoG will last long enough to be beneficial.

A setback: just as I was building my third settler to go get Mt. Kili, Gustav settles it! I was going to keep him around for a trading partner and hopefully DoF but now he's got to be the first to go, I must have Mt. Kili. But then on T75 he built the Great Wall, dagnabit! Still, his Mt Kili city was small and weak so I sent some units, DoW, and took it. Heading toward his capital but I paused here at T97 because I'm not sure whether to commit to it. He's got the GWall, the city is strength 22, I don't have all that much of an army yet. No sure what to do but I think I'll give it a try and see what happens.

Spoiler T51 :

Spoiler T97 :

 

[SavannahBananas]

What a fun map. Even aside from the fun of an Arboreal map, having an unclaimed Fountain of Youth so close to my starting point made this Immortal difficulty game much, much easier to play. I rarely had to manage my happiness at all, and being able to grow population pretty much unchecked meant more hammers and beakers for me. Plus I could sell off luxury resources pretty much with impunity.

I quickly stole a worker from both Sweden and the Netherlands to boost my early game growth, and then later stole a worker from Hong Kong on t58. I built only one scout, which was promoted to an archer by a ruin so that was nice. Another ruin gave me Writing for free, which was also super convenient. My tech path was 1. Pottery (wanted an early Granary in my capital), 2. Archery (to escort my settlers), 3. Animal Husbandry (in case any horses were near my capital), 4. Mining, 5. Trapping, 6. The Wheel, 7. Masonry, 8. Construction. I went Liberty, because I realized that having so much space to the east meant that I could settle 4 cities relatively quickly before starting any wars of conquest. Osininka (a forward settle towards the Swedish) was founded on t37, Grand River (a Fountain of Youth city) on t42, and Akwesasne (a city south of Hong Kong) on t55.

I think I hit Construction somewhere around t68 or so? I forget. Trade with Portugal helped build my economy to upgrade Archers into Composite Bowmen, and I quickly built an army of Composite Bowmen to attack Stockholm. (Gustavus Adolphus had been floundering after I forward-settled him; he wandered a Settler way east near my territory and had it captured by Barbarians). I captured Stockholm on t85 with no losses to my army, and then moved my soldiers east to invade the Netherlands. I didn't encounter India until t90 or so, which was convenient because I could sell him excess resources and he wouldn't be able to see my earlier warmongering.

I also had some breathing space to pursue some infrastructure projects. I built the Oracle in my capital on t99, and used the Great Engineer from finishing the Liberty policy tree to rush the National College in my capital on t94.

Now that it's t100, I lead the world in production and gold yield (thanks to my trading partners). Crop yield is a little tricky because I currently have no excess happiness, but I should be okay after constructing some happiness buildings. I'm going to research Civil Service for the bonus towards freshwater farms, and then Machinery to upgrade my Composite Bowmen (hopefully the Netherlands gives me some gold or luxury resources in a peace deal). Then I'll push for Education to get Universities in my cities.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Interesting map, with the two 'military' natural wonders nearby: Kili for unit movement, FoY for healing and (more important) happiness, although it would have been better if their location had been reversed: now every unit needs to 'move back' in order to pick up its promotion.

To start, I moved the warrior south to see if there was anything good. If so, I might have settled on copper. Since there was nothing, I yolo'd a move to the flat grassland north, preserving forests and chops, and hopefully moving into better lands. I think that move was fine, although the lands scream for civil service, which I won't be researching for a while since I'm currently heading for machinery first.

My start was pretty good. Despite a Swedish scout appearing on my borders earlier than I would like, I got plenty of decent ruins. I went tradition and only settled a single city near the Fountain of Youth, although its placement was compromised since there was a barbarian blocking the path to my intended settle (and, in contrast to the last GotM, this time I did radar correctly). I was also lucky with a Swedish worker steal. Stockholm had two warriors (and a general!) around, but just as a worker had improved the south silver mine, the warriors were out of position, and my scout could just about steal the worker and survive. My warrior (which was a bit too far from home) also managed to snatch a Dutch worker, but I did not get any CS workers, because they had none out when my units were near.

More luck came with CS quests for Antanarivo: first a barb camp, then find the lands of Portugal, followed my connecting iron just as I was making a mine. Currently, around T100, I have an army of composite bowmen, and a little gold for upgrading, but I will need more. As can be seen from the screen shot, Portugal just completed Oracle, actually same-turning me in Osininka. Although that was annoying, the fail-gold will actually come in handy here, although it means I won't get many benefits from Honor this game.

A challenge for me in games like these is finding a balance between spamming units and getting up some kind of infrastructure. For this game, I did not attempt any wonders (I got Statue of Zeus from Stockholm though!), I did not build any shrines, but I did get a water mill and two caravans. Also, I built both heroic epic and national college in the capital. Most likely, the heroic epic is a mistake. Much of the army has already been built, and the extra combat strength is probably not worth 7-8 turns of production in the capital.

 

[Megalou]

A setback: just as I was building my third settler to go get Mt. Kili, Gustav settles it! I was going to keep him around for a trading partner and hopefully DoF but now he's got to be the first to go

I had a similar conundrum. The Swedes sent two caravans to me with 4 beakers (when my total beaker number was only in the 20s and 30s) which I would have to dissolve when declaring war. But there are a few reasons why I'm starting with Sweden. 1. Their land is quick to reach and likely to contribute to economy, production and research later. 2. The risk of being backstabbed would be overwhelming if I left them alone. So, below on turn 92 I have 6 CBs and a a couple of Mohawks on their way to capture Helsinki (or Helsingfors, as it is called in Sweden). Naturally, I want to draw out the swordsman next to Helsinki before targeting the city itself. Preparations have been slow but at least I had build National College by then.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
I wanted to send a very big force of CBs and Mohawks on a "tour". But I also wanted to keep good relations for as long as possible to avoid unhappiness for long enough to make build of circuses and colosseums possible, after the army ismore or less complete. Mohawks were interesting because I don't usually build swordsmen to a great extent.

The warrior was soon hut upgraded to spearman and stayed rather close to the core area while two scouts moved on east and a third was upgraded to archer and searched out juicy barb camps.

- What tech path did you follow and why? Are you planning to use Mohawk Warriors?
Pottery was the obvious first tech, because of the dire need of a granary. Then I believe I picked archery to fend of barbs and break up the odd camp. I find archers much more effective than warriors, especially with barb camps, since they often require less healing time. The most important camp was one near Kabul, which I cleared once Kabul targeted it, and a Jerusalem one, which I’m writing about in the Religion section below.

I remember popping Trapping. The main focus was construction and later machinery, trying also to time philosophy ffor the sake of the National College.

A working hypothesis was to get a lot of the work done with CBs and Mohawks, but pushing on towards crossbowmen. So there was a lot of focus on the lower part of the tech tree. In the long run, this might also lead to cannons, but I hope they won't be needed because they would pose a great logistics problem, now that I started with Sweden. Maybe cannons will be good for a second army for India, which I will likely save for last.

- What Social Policies did you choose?
Liberty tree. T87 saw the discovery of philosophy and also the completion of the Liberty tree. Three turns later NC was hurried (17 turns worth). Science went from 32 to 45. But 4 of those, from trade routes, will soon be lost as war with Sweden is underway.

Next is the Commerce opener and then the Wagon Trains.

- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
Pantheon was enabled by the 8 faith meeting with Jerusalem and a lucky barb camp quest and worker liberation completed by a lone scout. Not that interested in faith, I picked palace king.
A religion was founded in t87 thanks to the long-standing alliance with Jerusalem. Initiation rites (100 gold per city conversion) and Guruship (+2 shields if specialist) with the Longhouse in mind. I also want to use the longhouse to create a second great engineer down the road.

Unusual:
* Built my first lumber mills since I was a beginner, because of the longhouse in Onondaga, and perhaps in the spirit of the map.
* I was hoping that the uninterrupted forest that went in a curve all the way between Onondaga and the Fountain of youth town (my second town) would form a very early city connection, but realized like all the forest tiles must be within the territory. Because on turn 36 I had Wheel and later verified that there was no barb camp obstructing the path, but still never got a forest path city connection.

settled a single city near the Fountain of Youth

I like the way you combined a little road with the forest paths, to make the city connection. Myself, I didn't realize the forest paths had to be in our own territory, so I didn't get it quite right.

 

[lerrocco]

I took a peek at this last week, decided to speed play 100 turns. I opened tradition then went through the Honor tree. I made a mistake by settling on the copper, nice easy happiness bonus without needing a worker and good income.. but I hadnt factored in the tundra to the later game and the site was a poor choice. I captured Stockholm and took on the barbs for a game long friendship with the CS Ant..rvo.. but I wouldnt have got to the Dutch until after turn 120, which wouldnt have worked, I went pure military and needed a quick game. So I quit.

But curious to try a better starting location, this time I opened Liberty, opened Honor, then citizenship for the worker then full Honor. I missed my settle site with an errant mouse click, hehe, but settled there anyway. I used the general to capture the copper. Both games I hit a stack of ruins for very little, a lot of maps and barb camps. I did get Writing though, so I decided to go for the NC (which I got at T93),, Early game was beeline to comp bows and straight to the Swedes, no distractions this time. I am back to the Dutch before turn 90, I have already taken one of their cities and am about to go for Amsterdam.

EUI is a must for an easier domination but you cannot capture workers with archers, and yes I do know how to do that, I just cant.. which was kinda frustrating on a couple of occasions as my scout was upgraded to an archer.. first time for me, keeping the all terrain bonus is cute..

In Tradition the city connection practically made itself with auto expansions.. big difference in Liberty.. I do like the Tradition and then Honor opening.

But hey.. this opening is working so far.. I am building the statue of Zeus and will chop it, though I did delete several workers for build and money problems. I am close to currency now but have gone for machinery for the extra trade route and then its straight to xbows, which are due in 20 to 30 turns..

I thought Amsterdam was flat. canals, that sort of thing...

 

[Megalou]

I like the way you combined a little road with the forest paths, to make the city connection. Myself, I didn't realize the forest paths had to be in our own territory, so I didn't get it quite right.

I thought I had fully understood the forest warpaths thanks to some of your posts, but then I noticed something I still don't understand. In the picture below, I moved the trebuchet from the deer to the copper (so as not to risk pillaging on the interturn) but I was surprised to see that its moves were then expended. If the deer+forest tile counted as a tile with road, there should have been a bridge over the river to the copper tile, since Engineering has been discovered.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

I remember FilthyRobot complaining about the Iroquois forest roads not working properly, but I never fully understood it either. So it could be that in the above, the forest deer does count for a city connection, but for not moving onto the copper. I wonder if you would move from the copper onto the deer, whether you would also be out of movement.

 

[sebtanic]

Now that you're soing it i had an issue with the forest roads too. There was one patch of forest that was not in the cultural borders of my cities. So I built a road there, but I got the feeling it didn"t work properly either.

 

[Megalou]

I remember FilthyRobot complaining about the Iroquois forest roads not working properly, but I never fully understood it either. So it could be that in the above, the forest deer does count for a city connection, but for not moving onto the copper. I wonder if you would move from the copper onto the deer, whether you would also be out of movement.

 

[Valasynthia]

first 100 turns were fairly difficult as with any boreal map but the 10 happiness wonder was very helpful for settling 4 tradition cities, my 3rd settle almost fell to barbs and I spent some time researching the Iroquois wood city connection rules, which turns out made the bonus pretty hard to utilise as only forests inside friendly borders get counted, most of which had been chopped down... possibly the first major mistake as the capital may not have needed that many farms..