zxcvbob
Emperor
You get the free courthouse if you immediately annex *or* raze the city. The free courthouse in a city you're razing comes in very handy, especially if it has a high population.
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TSG 245 After Actions Thread
- Thread starter Nizef
- Start date
zxcvbob
Emperor
I just finished the game. Phew! Domination on turn 570. After researching Civil Service, I beelined Astronomy and bought a caravel in Paris. I wasn't quite finished conquering my continent yet; being able to sail in deep water seemed more urgent. Paris was the only capital I annexed. I very quickly found the barbarian-filled western half of the other continent, and met Rome and Mongolia not long after that. Unlike most ppl's games, Mongolia dominated the other continent instead of Rome. I sent a few green swordsmen, pikes, and a horse over to fight with the barbs and level-up while my veterans eliminated Greece. After Astronomy I researched the techs leading up to Machinery for crossbows, then Navigation and I bought a frigate. I'm not sure the frigate was really necessary, two highly-promoted crossbows, a few pikes, and whatever I could recruit from the barbarians probably could have handled it.
Social policies were full Honor, full Tradition, the Patronage opener, and the Commerce opener. I didn't get around to building Forbidden Palace.
Social policies were full Honor, full Tradition, the Patronage opener, and the Commerce opener. I didn't get around to building Forbidden Palace.
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Domination Victory turn 346.
I didn't take notes during the game, I made the first manual save only on turn 140, so it's difficult to tie the initial part to dates. Before the game, I planned to play through honor and tradition, as it was clear that astronomy was most likely needed and it hardly made sense to build many cities. However, I later realized that since many cities would be conquered anyway and it could be done relatively early at the marathon, Liberty would probably be more useful than Tradition. But in the beginning, it was certainly an Honor, because hunting barbarian camps was the basis strategies in this game. In the beginning, I also had a lot of "empty" camps, although 75 gold is also not bad, but then there were so many of these units, that a significant part of the time I had penalties up to 60% of production in the capital. To combat this, I began to take AI cities, which in turn increased the cost of the National College and delayed the time of its construction. As a result, it took 67 turns to build it!
Some units hunted camps throughout the game, from the rest I created 1 army at first, then 2 and began to capture the capitals. By turn 235, I had completed the capture of the continent. I completely destroyed England, China and Greece, the rest have 1 city each. During the whole game, I lost 2 units: an archer near Beijing about 125 turn and an axe thrower with a march near Antium between 342 and 343 turns. I donated about 25-30 units to the City-States, and 20-25 more, including 6 workers, I disbanded for money, on the way to astronomy. At the same time, I have 49 military units at the end of the game. I built/bought 1 (start) warrior, 2 scouts, 2 archer and 2 triremes myself, received 5-6 from the military CS, everything else from the camps.
On turn 274, I accelerated Education with the help of a Great Scientist from Liberty, but no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't save money for university. I had about 900 gold and -40 gold per turn...
At turn 323, I learned astronomy, I had 2 triremes, but I didn't have money for an upgrade. My 1st army sailed west from Rio De Janeiro and from Athens. The 2nd army sailed south from Beijing (in fact, the presence of a large island there could be calculated using a trireme). The 3rd Army was supposed to sail east from Kilimanjaro, but it had to be disbanded) As a result, almost the entire 2nd army landed in the northwest of the second continent and began to fight the barbarians, but a couple of units sailed further south and found Rome and a Mongol caravan near it on move 328. Rome gave me 45 gold per turn, which solved my financial problems, at 231t they gave 11 gold/turn more. The Mongols gave 6 gold/turn.
On turn 331, I bribed Rome to attack Mongolia for only half a happy. Thus, I cleared the area around Rome of units, some of which died near Karakorum. In addition, Rome captured Beshbalyk, but it had no chance to capture Karakorum. On turn 338 I landed a both armys around Rome and captured it on 339 turn. Then Antium (342), Kumae (343), Beshbalyk (peace deal, 344) and finally, on turn 344, I started a war with Mongolia and took Karakorum on turn 346.
Despite the early learned construction (165), there was no need to spend money on upgrading archers for most of the game. Only about 330 turns did I upgrade 1 trireme, and after capturing Rome, 7 archers and 1 warrior. During the turn before the end of the game, I upgraded 1 unit into a crossbow.
Religion did not play any role in this game, on the 28th turn I found ruins with faith and founded the pantheon - the God-King. Later I founded and strengthened the religion, bought a mosque and a missionary. that's all.
Production in the capital :
scout - scout - monument - buy archer - archer - granary - Great Library (124, philosophy) - National College (191) - Oracle (221) - Pyramids (238) - circus (250) - MOM - University (291) - arena - market - Statue of Zeus - watermill.
The order of institutions was as follows :
Open Honor - Open Liberty - free worker - republic - discipline - caste of warriors - free settler (201) - representation (221)- finish Liberty (229, GS) - professional army (261) - open Commerce (301) - caravans of vans (cheap roads) (344)
The order of technologies :
archery - pottery - writing - mining (ruins) - calendar/animal husbandry - hunting/masonry - construction - ... - civil service (254) - Education (274, use GS) - astronomy (323) - machinery (use GS, 339) - IW (340) - ...
The capture of our continent :
York (peace deal, 112) - Shanghai (peace deal, 126) - Sao Paulo (peace deal, 132) - Orleans (peace deal, 144) - London (148) - Beijing (163, built Petra after 300) - Rotterdam (peace deal, 166) - Vienna (178) - Sparta (peace deal, 191) - Paris (192) - founded Hamburg (204) - Amsterdam (213, Stonehenge) - Athens (228) - Rio de Janeiro (234) - Corinth (235).
and 2nd continent :
Rome (339, ToA, Colossus, Great Lighthouse) - Antium (342) - Kumae (343) - Beshbalyk (peace deal, 344) - Karakorum (346, Terracota Army).
p.s. I counted the number of "barbarians have joined you" messages in the event log and it turned out that only 82 units joined me during the entire game. (I thought more than 100
) This is without counting empty camps.
p.s.s. I was hoping getting Karakorum as part of a peace deal from Rome, but not was lucky )
I didn't take notes during the game, I made the first manual save only on turn 140, so it's difficult to tie the initial part to dates. Before the game, I planned to play through honor and tradition, as it was clear that astronomy was most likely needed and it hardly made sense to build many cities. However, I later realized that since many cities would be conquered anyway and it could be done relatively early at the marathon, Liberty would probably be more useful than Tradition. But in the beginning, it was certainly an Honor, because hunting barbarian camps was the basis strategies in this game. In the beginning, I also had a lot of "empty" camps, although 75 gold is also not bad, but then there were so many of these units, that a significant part of the time I had penalties up to 60% of production in the capital. To combat this, I began to take AI cities, which in turn increased the cost of the National College and delayed the time of its construction. As a result, it took 67 turns to build it!
Some units hunted camps throughout the game, from the rest I created 1 army at first, then 2 and began to capture the capitals. By turn 235, I had completed the capture of the continent. I completely destroyed England, China and Greece, the rest have 1 city each. During the whole game, I lost 2 units: an archer near Beijing about 125 turn and an axe thrower with a march near Antium between 342 and 343 turns. I donated about 25-30 units to the City-States, and 20-25 more, including 6 workers, I disbanded for money, on the way to astronomy. At the same time, I have 49 military units at the end of the game. I built/bought 1 (start) warrior, 2 scouts, 2 archer and 2 triremes myself, received 5-6 from the military CS, everything else from the camps.
On turn 274, I accelerated Education with the help of a Great Scientist from Liberty, but no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't save money for university. I had about 900 gold and -40 gold per turn...
At turn 323, I learned astronomy, I had 2 triremes, but I didn't have money for an upgrade. My 1st army sailed west from Rio De Janeiro and from Athens. The 2nd army sailed south from Beijing (in fact, the presence of a large island there could be calculated using a trireme). The 3rd Army was supposed to sail east from Kilimanjaro, but it had to be disbanded) As a result, almost the entire 2nd army landed in the northwest of the second continent and began to fight the barbarians, but a couple of units sailed further south and found Rome and a Mongol caravan near it on move 328. Rome gave me 45 gold per turn, which solved my financial problems, at 231t they gave 11 gold/turn more. The Mongols gave 6 gold/turn.
On turn 331, I bribed Rome to attack Mongolia for only half a happy. Thus, I cleared the area around Rome of units, some of which died near Karakorum. In addition, Rome captured Beshbalyk, but it had no chance to capture Karakorum. On turn 338 I landed a both armys around Rome and captured it on 339 turn. Then Antium (342), Kumae (343), Beshbalyk (peace deal, 344) and finally, on turn 344, I started a war with Mongolia and took Karakorum on turn 346.
Despite the early learned construction (165), there was no need to spend money on upgrading archers for most of the game. Only about 330 turns did I upgrade 1 trireme, and after capturing Rome, 7 archers and 1 warrior. During the turn before the end of the game, I upgraded 1 unit into a crossbow.
Religion did not play any role in this game, on the 28th turn I found ruins with faith and founded the pantheon - the God-King. Later I founded and strengthened the religion, bought a mosque and a missionary. that's all.
Production in the capital :
scout - scout - monument - buy archer - archer - granary - Great Library (124, philosophy) - National College (191) - Oracle (221) - Pyramids (238) - circus (250) - MOM - University (291) - arena - market - Statue of Zeus - watermill.
The order of institutions was as follows :
Open Honor - Open Liberty - free worker - republic - discipline - caste of warriors - free settler (201) - representation (221)- finish Liberty (229, GS) - professional army (261) - open Commerce (301) - caravans of vans (cheap roads) (344)
The order of technologies :
archery - pottery - writing - mining (ruins) - calendar/animal husbandry - hunting/masonry - construction - ... - civil service (254) - Education (274, use GS) - astronomy (323) - machinery (use GS, 339) - IW (340) - ...
The capture of our continent :
York (peace deal, 112) - Shanghai (peace deal, 126) - Sao Paulo (peace deal, 132) - Orleans (peace deal, 144) - London (148) - Beijing (163, built Petra after 300) - Rotterdam (peace deal, 166) - Vienna (178) - Sparta (peace deal, 191) - Paris (192) - founded Hamburg (204) - Amsterdam (213, Stonehenge) - Athens (228) - Rio de Janeiro (234) - Corinth (235).
and 2nd continent :
Rome (339, ToA, Colossus, Great Lighthouse) - Antium (342) - Kumae (343) - Beshbalyk (peace deal, 344) - Karakorum (346, Terracota Army).
p.s. I counted the number of "barbarians have joined you" messages in the event log and it turned out that only 82 units joined me during the entire game. (I thought more than 100
) This is without counting empty camps.p.s.s. I was hoping getting Karakorum as part of a peace deal from Rome, but not was lucky
)
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zxcvbob
Emperor
I wonder if it might have been better to quickly annex the capitols on my continent and just forget about a National College? Collectively they might have contributed more science than the 50% increase in Berlin, and sped things along. I didn't annex anything until I needed a coastal city, and Paris looked like a better choice at the time than London
I doubt that. I annexed all capitals except Rio and timber-financed courthouses and colosseums was pretty much all I was able to build. I think Amsterdam got itself a library, but the cities also remained small since there was little room for tile improvements or food caravans.
I annexed London early and it produced some good stuff but it would not have been worth sacrificing NC for it.
zxcvbob
Emperor
I'm just wondering why my times are always *so* much longer than the other folks posting here, LOL. I knew Astronomy was key and probably more important than quickly killing everyone on my continent so I tried to play a science game but with Honor instead of Tradition -- while I killed almost everyone on the continent. (I did open Tradition early to unlock HG but then switched to Honor) I did not attempt the Great Library because it's risky at this difficulty, and losing it would be a huge setback. Perhaps GL was key to a sub-400 victory.
If marathon games didn't take so long I would play this one again
I improved my playing speed by a lot when I stopped building unnecessary things. For a domination game, normally we'd be building only units (maybe a monument and colloseum, but basically units). But in this game we're Germany, so we don't even need those. So we can focus on science, happiness and growth buildings.I'm just wondering why my times are always *so* much longer than the other folks posting here, LOL. I knew Astronomy was key and probably more important than quickly killing everyone on my continent so I tried to play a science game but with Honor instead of Tradition -- while I killed almost everyone on the continent. (I did open Tradition early to unlock HG but then switched to Honor) I did not attempt the Great Library because it's risky at this difficulty, and losing it would be a huge setback. Perhaps GL was key to a sub-400 victory.
If marathon games didn't take so long I would play this one again
HG isn't even necessary... I rarely build it. I think it only gives 5 extra food if I remember correctly? A food caravan gives you 4, which is almost as good.
As for the tech path, I got Writing first, built GL ASAP, then basically beelined for Astronomy. The only exception was Construction for CBs I think, and all the basic lux techs of course but most of them lie on the pasth to Astro anyway.
From what I’ve read, you seem to build up your empires like you want them to be, which I respect totally. If you want faster times, just build the things that you need. (Eg. I noticed in this game you were considering building Forbidden palace, but wouldn’t it have an effect close to zero?) Also, I believe in building a taskforce in the early stages, because as human players we are so much better than the AI at using soldiers, that there will always be something constructive to do which will give us the upper hand.I'm just wondering why my times are always *so* much longer than the other folks posting here, LOL. I knew Astronomy was key and probably more important than quickly killing everyone on my continent so I tried to play a science game but with Honor instead of Tradition -- while I killed almost everyone on the continent. (I did open Tradition early to unlock HG but then switched to Honor) I did not attempt the Great Library because it's risky at this difficulty, and losing it would be a huge setback. Perhaps GL was key to a sub-400 victory.
If marathon games didn't take so long I would play this one again
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The_Black_Vegetable
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2023
- Messages
- 72
@zxcvbob, it's a bit of conundrum, isn't it? My finish times are usually reasonably competitive, but there are always a couple of players with significantly better times. Sometimes, the difference can partly be explained by a key idea I did not think of, for example in this game buying the university and then Liberty-engineering Oxford university. In your game I suspect full honor was not that useful, and you would have gotten more value out of Liberty or Tradition (although I made the mistake of not opening honor right away).
For other games, I seem to be doing more or less what the quicker players are doing, but they are just doing it better. I think I've improved my general level of play a lot by watching a lot of Filthy Robot videos (almost all of them, in fact), back in the day, although these days they are not so readily available anymore. There are still some other useful resources on the internet, such as PC J Law youtube videos.
There's also something that I usually didn't do before, which I did a lot in this game: Which is, taking tribute from city states. On Marathon, it really pays off. You only get -15 influence and get some gold, at first it's only 30 gold but gets more over time. And it adds up. Your influence will drop for a short time, but after 15 turns it's back to normal. On Marathon speed 15 turns is next to nothing.
Of course don't do it if you can gain something meaningful from being their ally or friend, and they have a quest that you can complete.
Also, I used to play much too nicely with the AI. I'm still trying to get the hang of how to DOW the AI without the intent to conquer them, juts to get something out of a peace deal. In this game, they just didn't have anything worth taking lol.
Of course don't do it if you can gain something meaningful from being their ally or friend, and they have a quest that you can complete.
Also, I used to play much too nicely with the AI. I'm still trying to get the hang of how to DOW the AI without the intent to conquer them, juts to get something out of a peace deal. In this game, they just didn't have anything worth taking lol.
zxcvbob
Emperor
Thanks. Yes, I always try to build an empire that will "stand the test of time", LOL. Because if I don't, especially on larger maps, I run into problems about halfway through with gold or happiness. Sometimes both. (Forbidden Palace would have been for the happiness since this game was unlikely to ever form the world congress) In this game, I wasn't building military units because I was over my unit cap anyway; so what else is there to build that doesn't cost anything for upkeep? Walls (unnecessary in this one), markets, and wonders.
I did have a lot of inexperienced soldiers just standing around to keep barbarian horsemen from ransacking everything while my half dozen veterans did all the fighting. They could have been leveling-up by harassing one of the hostile CSs, or I could have given them to a friendly CS or disbanded them to save the GPT while I built some catapults/trebuchets/etc. I could also have used a lot more workers if I disbanded some of the excess brutes.
Yeah I had to get rid of some brutes too. Didn't disband any, just gifted them to a mercantile CS to keep them friendly. I also sacrificed some when attacking cities, that's something I never did before because I usually have too few units. But it's a lot of fun to send a brute in to distract the AI from firing at your experienced comp bows, hehehe! Some of them I let die deliberately because I had too many of them anywayThanks. Yes, I always try to build an empire that will "stand the test of time", LOL. Because if I don't, especially on larger maps, I run into problems about halfway through with gold or happiness. Sometimes both. (Forbidden Palace would have been for the happiness since this game was unlikely to ever form the world congress) In this game, I wasn't building military units because I was over my unit cap anyway; so what else is there to build that doesn't cost anything for upkeep? Walls (unnecessary in this one), markets, and wonders.
I did have a lot of inexperienced soldiers just standing around to keep barbarian horsemen from ransacking everything while my half dozen veterans did all the fighting. They could have been leveling-up by harassing one of the hostile CSs, or I could have given them to a friendly CS or disbanded them to save the GPT while I built some catapults/trebuchets/etc. I could also have used a lot more workers if I disbanded some of the excess brutes.
I guess to some it up, you have to be a bit more of an ******* to play more efficiently. I'd have a hard time acting like this in real life, but it's a game after all
Another shout out for filthy robot from me. I learned civ 5 from him. His videos are still online, but they are buried deep in his page now. I still refer to his guides, I downloaded all of them and have them on my laptop.
He doesnt do the quick domination victories, he plays classically as he only plays real time multi player games.My quick domination would not survive multi player, I rely on stupid AI.
My quick domination victory games are actually a carry over from civ 4, essentially (crudely) civ 4 was money limited, civ 5 is happiness limited.
Turn 464 for me. Game went similar to others - conquered east then South then finally back up to Greece, before settling down for the astronomy wait. I had a couple of units disband due to lack of finance, even though I was taking barb villages almost every other turn. Mongolia had already conquered Rome, but not wiped them out, so Open Borders with Rome gave me a good staging post for the attack.
The ability to capture barbarian units was vital in this game. I was worried that my army of comp bows and spearmen would mostly be outclassed, but numbers (and promotions) prevailed.
The ability to capture barbarian units was vital in this game. I was worried that my army of comp bows and spearmen would mostly be outclassed, but numbers (and promotions) prevailed.
You wouldn't happen to have a link handy, would you?
zxcvbob
Emperor
I did play it again. This time after the Honor opener I switched to Liberty. I built the Great Library and took Drama and Poetry for my free tech (Philosophy wasn't unlocked yet) And I started warmongering a good bit earlier. London was tough with just archers, brutes, a spear, and a handaxe, but I don't think I lost any. I annexed London as soon as it came out of rebellion; I left all the rest as puppets. I won this time on turn 475, so almost 100 turns less. I conquered China, Austria, France, Netherlands, and Brazil with composite bows, then Greece, Rome and lastly Mongolia with crossbows.
I was struggling with gold and happiness problems the whole game. (That usually happens when I take Liberty instead of Tradition) I don't know why my coastal puppet cities never built harbors to connect with London; that would have helped quite a bit because I didn't have roads everywhere.
It took a lot longer to explore this time once I hit Astronomy because Rome built the Great Lighthouse rather than France or Greece. (poor Liz never got a chance to build it, LOL) Mongolia built the Great Wall but was still easy to take down with crossbows, and they didn't have keshiks yet.
I was struggling with gold and happiness problems the whole game. (That usually happens when I take Liberty instead of Tradition) I don't know why my coastal puppet cities never built harbors to connect with London; that would have helped quite a bit because I didn't have roads everywhere.
It took a lot longer to explore this time once I hit Astronomy because Rome built the Great Lighthouse rather than France or Greece. (poor Liz never got a chance to build it, LOL) Mongolia built the Great Wall but was still easy to take down with crossbows, and they didn't have keshiks yet.
Maybe liberty is better for hard games. I tried a deity continents game with raging Barbarians and Zulu as my neighbour. I just found that everything went too slow with monarchy. I had to spam archers and had little time to build settlers. Perhaps also the free Great person is more useful in difficult games.
On monarchy, I find that the free cultural building policy is great in itself, But I also find it hard to time it. If I didn’t build any monuments early on it would take forever just to reach that particular policy! Free aqueducts Should be extremely powerful.
Filthy Robot guides. In no particular order
Civilization 5 - Filthy's "Filler" Social Policy Guide
Civilization 5 - Choosing an Ideology
Civilization 5 - Filthy's Tradition vs. Liberty Guide
Civilization 5 - The Early Game
Civilization 5 - Warfare in the Ancient and Classical Era
Civilization 5 - Filthy's Religion Guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R42Xtr2Vfww
Civilization 5 - Filthy's Wonder Tier List
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKhJH_c8rRA
Civilization 5 - Filthy's Civilization Tier Guide 2.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhTdDH0VU5A
Civilization 5 - Filthy's Barbarian Guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqg1jd39ON8
not a filthy's guide, but I guess folk might find this interesting. How they developed AI, but not for civ 5, civ 4.
Playing to Lose: AI and "Civilization" (Soren Johnson)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7AWHT7j3V4
enjoy. Recommended highly ! no fluff.
Civilization 5 - Filthy's "Filler" Social Policy Guide
Civilization 5 - Choosing an Ideology
Civilization 5 - Filthy's Tradition vs. Liberty Guide
Civilization 5 - The Early Game
Civilization 5 - Warfare in the Ancient and Classical Era
Civilization 5 - Filthy's Religion Guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R42Xtr2Vfww
Civilization 5 - Filthy's Wonder Tier List
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKhJH_c8rRA
Civilization 5 - Filthy's Civilization Tier Guide 2.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhTdDH0VU5A
Civilization 5 - Filthy's Barbarian Guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqg1jd39ON8
not a filthy's guide, but I guess folk might find this interesting. How they developed AI, but not for civ 5, civ 4.
Playing to Lose: AI and "Civilization" (Soren Johnson)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7AWHT7j3V4
enjoy. Recommended highly ! no fluff.
Thank you! These are great!!
