TSG132 Opening Actions

[Hammer Rabbi]

Welcome to the TSG132 Opening Actions thread.

STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed at least 80 to 100 turns in your game.

This thread is used to discuss the game once you've started playing through your first 100 turns. Apart from normal decency, the only posting restrictions are to please not post videos until the deadline is finished and to use the spoiler tags for screenshots. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. Please remember that we are running a family friendly site, so express anger or frustration with this in mind.

Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through the first 100 turns. Anything after that should be posted in the After Actions thread once you have completed your game.

- Did you start this with a specific VC in mind? Changed your mind yet?
- Where did you settle your second settler?
- Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?
- Describe your social policy choices and how it factors into your VC choice.

Please use spoiler tags for any surprise details you'd like kept hidden. Thanks.

 

[donkeyfish]

Played 73turns:

Spoiler :

-Domination, havent changed my mind
-Sri Pada/Copper and Wheat/Salt east spot (picked Liberty)
-Tithe + %hammers
-Full Liberty for max amount of early units. Open Rationalism when I realise I cant win with Frigates

Took my continent t62. Felt a little slow, should have had a worker or two extra for roads. Had to betray my word to Austria but dont really care. After all, I´m supposed to be Oda Nobunaga...

Have 6 useless Frigates, even Washington is silly to attack with them. Those 6 could have been Library/NC/Uni earlier instead - big mistake.

Hoping to get Paris with Cannons. Spending all my gold to keep the other guys fighting.

No Great Wall is a fantastic feature of this renaissance start

 

[belligerent]

95 turns in.

Spoiler :

- Did you start this with a specific VC in mind? Changed your mind yet?
Domination. Still thinking I'm going that route. Been at war with Spain most of the game, which is tough because of the Tercios, but took their expansion city, just got and traded their second expansion city in a ten-turn peace deal. Currently resetting and upgrading to Artillery to take out Madrid completely. We'll see where things stand after that, but I doubt Culture is in the offing, though Maria probably has a pretty healthy Culture start for me to go steal.

- Where did you settle your second settler?
So I explored in all three directions with pikes, then settled Kyoto in the middle of the four salts to the east of the start, then Osaka on a hill between the iron, salt and dyes to the west. I went Liberty and with the free settler I wandered a little bit, eventually settling my third city south of Kuala Lampur on the hill next to the mountain and the copper. I then bought two tiles and "stole" KL's pearls, then bought two more tiles and "stole" Sri Pada. I'll get the marble four tiles out in three moves, too. That was a hell of a city spot.

- Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?
Yes, managed to get Earth Mother, so with all the salt I got the second religion. Took Tithe, Mosques (as Pagodas was gone), Ascetism and Religious Texts.

- Describe your social policy choices and how it factors into your VC choice.
I really wanted to play Honor-Commerce-Autocracy, but I just can't see Honor being strong enough 200 turns into the game. So, I finished Liberty first. Thought the early worker and settler were too valuable to pass up. Took a GS and settled an academy on the sheep next to Osaka.

Took two in Rationalism to get opener and +2 for specialists. Now working in Commerce and will take Autocracy here in a few turns when I hit Modern Era.

This has taken some thought, for sure. I'm already tied for the science lead with Washington, have the highest population and very high production, relatively small army but it's been effective and will soon be upgraded to hopefully make quick work of the rest of the continent.

Happiness has been an issue with my early growth. I missed Notre Dame by one turn, which hurt. I've had to keep up a couple of CS alliances early on, which is costing $$$.

I've invested quite a bit in good infrastructure as I expect this to be a fairly long game. Can't cut off science right now given that I haven't even taken down the first civ.

Spain has been a giant PITA. Tercios suck.

 

[Sclb]

111 turns

Spoiler :

- Did you start this with a specific VC in mind? Changed your mind yet?
Culture victory. Later era domination is too easy.

- Where did you settle your second settler?
NW of start, to get copper + Sri Pada, maybe pearls too.

- Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?
Yes, with pagodas from salt pantheon. Enhanced very late and got only happiness to gardens

- Describe your social policy choices and how it factors into your VC choice.
Went liberty for the faster settlers and extra ones. Also very likely to require war as I doubt a fast peaceful CV can be done here. As expected, AI starts with same tech but spams wonders. Usually renaissance wonders are easy grabs but not here in this game. Delayed finished liberty as I didn't want to trigger early GA. Took rationalism/secularism delay also. Also detoured patronage to save some gold. No coal meant ideology only possible through oxford radio. Immediately went Order due to size of cities and need for immediate happiness.

 

[beetle]

Did you start this with a specific VC in mind?

I was hoping for a peaceful CV thinking that an Immortal AI with no early buffs would be a pushover. Got killed by the Eastern AI early. I am having fun though, learning about advanced starts on this map.

Where did you settle your second settler?

On the copper near the NW.

Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?

I have played from scratch four times now. I have always been second or third to pantheon (Earth Mother). The even start and going first really helps! Every game I have been third or fourth to found. The religious picks have varied considerably, but I got a building three times and +2 happy from Temples the other time.

Describe your social policy choices and how it factors into your VC choice.

I tried a heavy Rationalism start. That was a poor choice. Working the SP tree as usual seems like the best idea.

 

[Sclb]

Usually in normal culture games, the player is ahead of AI by renaissance era, but not in this case as we started in the same era. This meant that the usual renaissance key wonders such as Sistine, Piza, Globe etc are difficult to get and whichever AI builds them will become a problem later on. In my game one of the AI actually went full rationalism, but lucky they didn't build culture wonders.

 

[zxcvbob]

I'm about 100 turns in, not sure I'm going to finish it. I have 4 cities and over double the average production. I'm a close 2nd in science. I'm locked in a war with the AI to the east; at the start of the war they had the largest army in the world and I had the smallest (and I started it, but they were coming for me; I just took the first punch while a lot of their units were embarked for some reason) I've killed dozens of their units and they've killed a few of mine, but they just keep coming. At least I have artillery and cavalry and they're not quite there yet. At first my Gatling guns were tearing up their units. Now theirs (lancers and UU's that I won't mention) are tearing up my Gatlings but I'm spamming artillery.

I got beat to the first ideology (Autocracy) by one turn; I took it anyway. Just a few turns later the runaway on the other continent built Prora.

This would be a fun game at Emperor level. I'm not ready to play Immortal. Trying to figure out what I could have done differently... maybe Brandenburg a little earlier so I can train Samurai with March and a few with Blitz. Build as many as I have iron, and then mass upgrade to rifles. I might start over and try that.

 

[vadalaz]

I'm only 53 turns in, but it seems like the right time to sum up opening actions for a Renaissance era start.

Spoiler :

I went for a hammer-heavy opening, my build order was workers into workshops into hammer trade routes. Since production costs for all buildings and units are reduced, getting a lot of hammers early seemed like a good idea to me. It was a surprise to see that hammer trade routes actually yield less production than on an Ancient start, but I still thought the play was good. Happiness was tight at first anyway, and there are tons of things to build. I've switched to food trade routes now, need to grow my cities and fill out those specialist slots.

- Did you start this with a specific VC in mind? Changed your mind yet?
CV seemed more interesting to me, so I'm aiming for that. I've just researched Industrialization and paid 750 + 200 gold to ally a CS and improve their coal. I had a settler ready as well, in case there was coal nearby. Will have my factories up in 6 or 7 turns. I think I'm going for Futurism here, the culture leaders have only ~1200 culture right now. Not sure if I want to open Rationalism at all here, getting full Aesthetics ASAP might just be better.

- Where did you settle your second settler?
Sri Pada/Copper spot. Kuala Lumpur stole Pearls but we're allies, so I forgive them.

- Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?
Yes, second pantheon (Earth Mother) and first religion. I took +100 gold for each city converted, +2 production in cities with a specialist, +15% production and +50 faith for every Great Person used. Built Borobudur as soon as I founded to get 600 gold quickly.

- Describe your social policy choices and how it factors into your VC choice.
Full Liberty, took a GS with the finisher and planted him on the Iron hill. I was considering delaying the finisher for a Great Musician, but chose against it. Both are strong plays I think... A Great Engineer would've been pretty good as well.

Spoiler :

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Oh, youre going CV, so i have a chance to win my conquest victory (ye sorry, i chose the simple not so interesting option)

I opened according to the same principles: worker-workshop-Hammer boats.

After that things went very different.
I am at about the same turn (55)
I currently am losing more gold than im gaining science and i will soon hit zero
Oh ye, and 70% production deficit.

If i'd have gone for CV, i surely think i'd have done food boats. Its 8 food vs 4.6 hammers. In many cases you can work some hills and swap 3 food for 2 production or something, still a better ratio.

 

[vadalaz]

Maybe you're right. My thought process was that there weren't many tiles to work anyway. With food trade routes population growth would surely exceed border growth, and I had no gold to buy more tiles. Hammer trade routes also meant slightly faster aqueducts, watermills and workboats.

 

[beetle]

I got beat to the first ideology (Autocracy) by one turn; I took it anyway. Just a few turns later the runaway on the other continent built Prora.

How did you use your opening SP? After my Tradition, I tried a Liberty opener and that got me to ideologies just as fast, plus I got an two extra Wonders.

...maybe Brandenburg a little earlier so I can train Samurai with March and a few with Blitz. Build as many as I have iron, and then mass upgrade to rifles.

You won’t have many turns between Brandenburg and having nothing but rifling to unlock. Plus, what would you be building in the meantime to keep the eastern neighbor from rushing you?

 

[zxcvbob]

How did you use your opening SP? After my Tradition, I tried a Liberty opener and that got me to ideologies just as fast, plus I got an two extra Wonders.

You won’t have many turns between Brandenburg and having nothing but rifling to unlock. Plus, what would you be building in the meantime to keep the eastern neighbor from rushing you?

Exploration(4), Honor opener cuz there were still lots of barbs for some reason, Ratonalism(3), Autocracy. I mainly built crossbows (mass upgrade to Gatlings, that was expensive), and a few muskets and gallasses. I had a pretty big military, but the AI's had huge militaries and discounts that countered my high production.

BTW my plan, which failed spectacularly, was to build the writers guild quickly but wait until right before getting an ideology for the others and take Futurism first. (so I probably should have opened Aesthetics instead of Honor) That might have worked except for the Science Funding thing that passed in the world congress. Also they banned salt! I'll post most about it in the After Actions thread where I can name names.

When I finish losing this one (Science victory is imminent on the other continent) I'm gonna try it again going straight Honor.

 

[beetle]

I'm gonna try it again going straight Honor.

I will be interested in reading how that turns out! Is the After Actions reports the place to opine about replays? This is my first map with Advanced Start (is that the right term?) so it has been quite interesting!

Based on my own experience, I am not surprised that a heavy Exploration start turned out poorly for you. I am disappointed that, in the Announcement thread, veterans did not do more to warn folks away from being creative with their initial SP picks...

Are the veterans that competitive, or is there just not much collective wisdom around later era starts?

 

[Browd]

Yes, any replay discussions go in the after-actions thread.

 

[zxcvbob]

Based on my own experience, I am not surprised that a heavy Exploration start turned out poorly for you. I am disappointed that, in the Announcement thread, veterans did not do more to warn folks away from being creative with their initial SP picks...

I think Exploration was very strong for a R-era start, I just played poorly and was outclassed by the AI's (two in particular, on on my continent and one on the other.) Take a look at the policies; extra gold, extra happiness, and tons of extra hammers. First thing I built in every city was a workshop and then a crossbow (or galleass). No need for a library at first.

As soon as I could build a settler faster than I could grow another citizen, I settled another expo. That took just a few turns to build; now I had 3 cities and the AI's just had 2 (I should have quickly settled 2 more, building the settlers in my expos while Kyoto built the Ironworks.) At about 4 or 5 pop I built libraries, NC, and universities. More crossbows, and one Samurai who swam around building fishing boats. I stole one worker from a CS -- I never got a chance to steal from an AI, they guarded them too well. (eventually I stole a settler when the AI was just about to declare war on me anyway.)

I just thought of something. Perhaps Exploration is really strong (or I think it is) when your cities just have 2 or 3 citizens, but the benefits don't scale and they may become negligible when your cities grow.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

I will be interested in reading how that turns out! Is the After Actions reports the place to opine about replays? This is my first map with Advanced Start (is that the right term?) so it has been quite interesting!

Based on my own experience, I am not surprised that a heavy Exploration start turned out poorly for you. I am disappointed that, in the Announcement thread, veterans did not do more to warn folks away from being creative with their initial SP picks...

Are the veterans that competitive, or is there just not much collective wisdom around later era starts?

I don't think they are that competitive but they don't always play these in the first week of the month either. And later era starts aren't something they play in their spare time, as far as I know. Veterans can probably adjust their skill sets to later era starts but not too far off conventional wisdom about VC strategies. They'd only have some specific wisdom to offer if they played these things often.

These starts are a bit to keep things different and take people out of certain comfort zones or habits, even for some of the veterans when we can.

HR

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I will be interested in reading how that turns out! Is the After Actions reports the place to opine about replays? This is my first map with Advanced Start (is that the right term?) so it has been quite interesting!

Based on my own experience, I am not surprised that a heavy Exploration start turned out poorly for you. I am disappointed that, in the Announcement thread, veterans did not do more to warn folks away from being creative with their initial SP picks...

Are the veterans that competitive, or is there just not much collective wisdom around later era starts?

Well, it was a little late maybe, but on april the 5th i basically said to go liberty
(I didnt put much thought in the game before then)

Of course im not yet considered a veteran so it probably didnt help

 

[beetle]

I think Exploration was very strong for a R-era start, I just played poorly and was outclassed by the AI's (two in particular, on on my continent and one on the other.) Take a look at the policies; extra gold, extra happiness, and tons of extra hammers. First thing I built in every city was a workshop and then a crossbow (or galleass). No need for a library at first.

The only thing I might agree with in the above is XB before Library. I did not build units until I had an Armory, so in some plays I did Library and University before units.

The gold/happiness/hammers from Exploration is only on par with what you get from either Tradition or Liberty.

I just thought of something. Perhaps Exploration is really strong (or I think it is) when your cities just have 2 or 3 citizens, but the benefits don't scale and they may become negligible when your cities grow.

No, the issue is that you are getting good hammers per turn at the expense of the many fast hammer from Tradition (4x Amphitheaters + 4x Aqueducts) or Liberty (worker + ~2x Settlers). As with so many things in the game, early >> long term net.

 

[Kendon]

- Did you start this with a specific VC in mind? Changed your mind yet?

My original plan was VC culture and, mindreader that you are, I'm now starting to think about domination. Spain attacked me just after proposing a research agreement, which I took. So, no money and the smallest military versus the largest.

Science was good though, with the pikemen just ready to become lancers. Now Spain is retreating and I have artillery. The first task is to liberate Sidon.

- Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?

I did get the fourth religion with tithe, pagodas, feed the world and religious texts. My pantheon was 10% growth but next time I have to look more closely at Earth Mother.

The sneak attack distracted me from the World's Fair which finished much faster than I though it would. Also France is turning into a culture runaway. I'll have to see how things finish up with Spain. After that I really don't know.

 

[MPoxon]

Playing through this game. Gone for full honour as a start. Upon selecting the last policy to complete honour I am told that I can no longer construct the writers Guild and the hammers have been converted to gold.

I assume this is a bug and I think I am going to have to reload which is a shame as I was about to launch an attack on Spain.

Does anyone happen to know if full honour prevents you building the writers guild?