TSG141 After Action Report

[beetle]

They don't hate you if you convert them before they get their religion

True, and between my two re-plays, I did that to two different civs. But both times, apparently, the civ did not spend their faith on my nice faith buildings; and instead found their own religion shortly after I first converted them. And of course, that happens long before tourism starts to ramp up. So it was just a waste of early faith. There are plenty of targets for early missionaries, and getting WR passed is pretty reliable. But even at Prince, I do not think faith wars with founders is productive.

In my first replay, I got all three faith Wonders. In my second re-play (and I expect the third replay to have this same speed bump, as it depends if Pacal founds or not) I could only get two of the three faith Wonders (and that was with shameless reloading) but I think I have my choice of which two. Of the three, I think Borobudur is the weakest.

 

[KingDante]

Pox, you mention no need for armies.

Have you not thought of TE benefits of stealing great works from the AI through war to accelerate your win?

That's what I ended up doing in my turn 242 win. It's not sub 200, but I could have easily shaved 25+ turns off that time by doing the city gift trick.

I stole probably 10-15 great works by simply taking cities. Especially capitals with wonders.

 

[beetle]

Do Diplomats not have a Tourism effect if the AI civ does not have an Ideology?

I did things completely different, and my CV was still on turn 328 exactly, same as before. I thought that was funny.

Reload again, instead of WI at first WC, I propose IG. That worked out. I never did get to hotels or airports. 2 GMu bombs to put me over, and I beat turn 300. Turn 299, LOL.

Picture shows my 4 city Tradition set up. Passing on Uluru to settle two cities on desert hills on flood plains was much better. (In my first game, I went wide.) Full Tradition, open Patronage, Cultural Centers in Aesthetics, three good policies in Rationalism, complete Aesthetics. Autocracy from Oxford of Radio, then build guilds. Faith purchased 2x GE and one each GWAM and one GS right at end. Themed Uffiz, Broadway, Globe, Sistine, and a couple others.

Have you not thought of TE benefits of stealing great works from the AI through war to accelerate your win?

IMHO, at Prince, that is too cheesy. I for one appreciate that has been the focus.

 

[poxpower]

Pox, you mention no need for armies.

Have you not thought of TE benefits of stealing great works from the AI through war to accelerate your win?

That's what I ended up doing in my turn 242 win. It's not sub 200, but I could have easily shaved 25+ turns off that time by doing the city gift trick.

I stole probably 10-15 great works by simply taking cities. Especially capitals with wonders.

I never tried.
In my experience the AI doesn't make many great works until much later so you wouldn't really get much of a bonus for most of the game.

 

[Kendon]

Reading the preceding comments I recognize that early religion spread plus gifting a city for fast trade routes are a favoured fast finish strategy. Early religion might work for other victory conditions if only to get money through Tithe.

A pre-game analysis shows that trade routes and open borders are a relatively easy way at any point in the game to boost the tourism modifier. Shared religion is the only one that requires being ahead of the AIs. Looking for the uncommon condition might work for openings generally.

I had a slow finish but along the way I noticed something I've been overlooking. On the Culture Overview there are multi-slot wonders and great works. If the art, writing or music in them are optimized, that tourism bonus doubles. Perhaps this is what is meant by theming.

Pre-Renaissance there's the Great Library and Oxford University. The Renaissance has Hermitage, Uffizi, Globe Theatre and Sistine Chapel. Industrial Era has the Louvre (the only 4-slot wonder) and the museum. By Modern era the fast players have finished but there's still Broadway, the first multi-slot music wonder.

Optimizing collections in the Renaissance might be the opportunity to shave off a few turns. Maybe everyone else already knows this but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Answering the staff questions, of my four pathfinders three became composite bowmen; I built five cities because the extra territory got the luxuries faster.

My spies mostly killed other spies. I did check to see if the AIs were building any wonders I wanted.

The larger map meant my wars were over before I met France, who then stayed friendly up to the end. War was to capture the other capitols that had enough wonders for culture to counter the tourism.

On Prince I expected to beat the Mayans with fewer ranged units than my usual 3 or 4. That got my trebuchets killed, so with building cannons and travel time 50 turns slipped by very quickly.

I suffered from the down side of the faith advantage. England and the Iroquois converted everyone before I could get there. It gave me an appreciation of how effectively faith can tip the balance.

Policies were full Liberty, three Patronage, full Aesthetics, three Rationalism and then the Freedom ideology.

Science began on the lower half of the technology tree, the war half, up to cannons and the Comanche riders; after that I aimed for archaeologists and hotels.

 

[sebtanic]

Settled 4 cities, then a 5th one on a 1-tile island to the east to get a trade route with France. Finished t264. Not sure if city gifting would have been better here.

Thought I played a rather tight game but looking at some others' results here it's obvious that I didn't... I wasn't aware of the spread religion early strategy, but of course it makes total sense in hindsight. And I totally forgot about futurism.

If the art, writing or music in them are optimized, that tourism bonus doubles. Perhaps this is what is meant by theming.
...
Optimizing collections in the Renaissance might be the opportunity to shave off a few turns. Maybe everyone else already knows this but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Yeah, that's theming. I think it's generally quite well known, but I can totally relate: The funny thing with Civ 5 is that even though you've been playing it for years, there's still always things to discover that you didn't know! And those who do know, are the ones who get the faster wins.

Like milking futurism for example... I've used futurism before but this game, I didn't even remember it existed. One of the posts in this thread (someone who won t170 or so, don't remember who atm) vaguely describes how to make optimal use of it... I'd love to try it in a replay, but really don't have the time!!

 

[poxpower]

Oh man futurism, I didn't even think of that. Usually at this difficulty you'd just do sacred sites, but it's banned so futurism would totally work lol.

Optimizing collections in the Renaissance might be the opportunity to shave off a few turns. Maybe everyone else already knows this but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Theming gives +X tourism/ culture where X is the number of slots.
Finishing aesthetics doubles that bonus.

So great library then gives +4 tourism and culture when filled with two great works of writing.
It's pretty good on Prince where that is a significant % of what the AI makes in culture. It's easy enough to theme great library and sistine early, oxford and hermitage soon after.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1770AD
Turns played: 264
Base score: 2467
Final score: 4744
Time played: 8:57:00

It is always interesting to find out the different approaches players made. It also becomes clear how I could have done better.

My biggest failing in the early game was losing the race to the Great Library and the The Parthenon. I entered both races, but too late. Both wonders could have boosted my tourism far earlier in the game and given me a better result. It wouldn't have been difficult for me to prioritise these wonders earlier, I just wanted my third city out first.

Another failing was not using trade routes to France (I did so haphazardly) and burning my musicians too early. Perhaps another mistake was keeping France alive instead of a different, more culturally poor civilization. They did still like me despite my conquest of every other civilization, so they had that going for them.

I opened honor as my second social policy. I really value this pick. In the game I earnt (roughly) 3000 culture by killing barbarians. A significant amount of culture was achieved in this way in the first 100 turns when culture is hard to get. Sure, I may have not used this culture to best advantage, but it makes a big difference. Barbarian whacking prevents trade routes from being harmed, gains favor with city states and makes gold (or gets enough to cover the cost of my military). The bonus against barbarians also helped my pathfinders survive travel into very barbarian infested lands for ruins. I really rate taking the honor opener...it is just a shame about most of the other policies in honor.

 

[trendy]

Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1420AD
Turns played: 202
Base score: 1088
Final score: 2720
Time played: 9:33:00
Submitted save: victory Pocatello_0202 AD-1420.Civ5Save
Renamed file: trendy_C514101.Civ5Save

Finished T202. I'm a little surprised seeing such late turn times. Didn't do anything fancy. Just rushed hotel tech, and got world religion passed first resolution. Other than that, just wonder spammed and focused on growth. Allied all the cultural CS I could, and used my limited number of units to fight barbs.

- Did you use your UU?
Popped tons of ruins this game. General priority was something like faith (first for panth) > population > cultural (only one) > unit upgrades > tech > more faith for faster religion > money

- How useful was your UA?
Very useful. Extra tiles meant that I could settle my expansion cities without worrying about getting the best first ring of tiles. Could better use the gold saved from tile purchasing allying CSes.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
Used my first one to bribe AIs to vote for world religion. Then used them to keep low influence allied CSes from degrading. Occassionally put a spy in my capital to kill other spies for entertainment value.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
Map type doesn't really matter as much when going full peaceful. As long as there's enough good land in the starting area (and there was), I'm happy.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
Lower difficulty meant I could comfortably spam pretty much all wonders without worrying about getting beaten. Also meant I had to be more careful about gold spending and happiness since the AI has less stuff to trade.

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory?
Got like 36 GPT or so from tithes near end of game, which was very helpful. Spent faith at end for great musician but never needed to pop him.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Full tradition-->Filled in Aesthetics until rationalism up-->rationalism to secularism-->finish aesthetics--> just random filler since that was all that really mattered (1 point patronage, 1 point exploration, freedom tree stuff)

- What techs did you prioritize ?
All science techs were rushed except for the early currency for petra, and then hotels as the finisher tech.

 

[Beto_Java]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 141
Date submitted: 2016-09-01 13:31:17
Reference number: 34794
Your name: Beto_Java
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1926AD
Turns played: 346
Base score: 1733
Final score: 2511
Time played: 5:40:00
Submitted save: Final_Pocatello_0346 AD-1926.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Beto_Java_C514101.Civ5Save

 

[MPoxon]

Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1961AD
Turns played: 381
Base score: 1090
Final score: 1434
Time played: 3:55:00


- Did you use your UU?
No

- How useful was your UA?
This was very useful, I thought I had played this civ before but clearly not. Extra territory on settling a city is absolutely fantastic. I must try this civ on a wide liberty game at some point, I always miss the faster border expansion from tradition when I play liberty but this will solve that.
The ability to chose what bonus you get from ruins is also great for early game.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
Not really other than rigging city states and a counter spy

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
Big map and raging barbs not so good for culture I did not find Monty and Napoleon till quite late.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
Nice easy relaxed game so quite nice compared to some of the harder games on here!

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory?
I screwed up royally here, started well with first to religion with desert folklaw and tithe. Started to spread my religion well but by mid game loads of other religions wiped out mine and even managed to lose the religion in my capital.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Full Tradition, Peity, Aesthetics, bit of rationalism and the patronage. Order Ideology

- What techs did you prioritize ?[/QUOTE]
Education techs and culture wonder techs

 

[MPoxon]

Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1770AD
Turns played: 264
Base score: 2467
Final score: 4744
Time played: 8:57:00

It is always interesting to find out the different approaches players made. It also becomes clear how I could have done better.

My biggest failing in the early game was losing the race to the Great Library and the The Parthenon. I entered both races, but too late. Both wonders could have boosted my tourism far earlier in the game and given me a better result. It wouldn't have been difficult for me to prioritise these wonders earlier, I just wanted my third city out first.

Another failing was not using trade routes to France (I did so haphazardly) and burning my musicians too early. Perhaps another mistake was keeping France alive instead of a different, more culturally poor civilization. They did still like me despite my conquest of every other civilization, so they had that going for them.

I opened honor as my second social policy. I really value this pick. In the game I earnt (roughly) 3000 culture by killing barbarians. A significant amount of culture was achieved in this way in the first 100 turns when culture is hard to get. Sure, I may have not used this culture to best advantage, but it makes a big difference. Barbarian whacking prevents trade routes from being harmed, gains favor with city states and makes gold (or gets enough to cover the cost of my military). The bonus against barbarians also helped my pathfinders survive travel into very barbarian infested lands for ruins. I really rate taking the honor opener...it is just a shame about most of the other policies in honor.

I wish I had taken Honor opener, it 100% makes sense on raging barbs for any victory type, setup a couple of barb farms and watch the culture flood in.

Good work on your Domination / Culture victory!

 

[beetle]

I wish I had taken Honor opener, it 100% makes sense on raging barbs for any victory type, setup a couple of barb farms and watch the culture flood in.

I would encourage you to try the experiment with this map. It is just about mathematically impossible for the Honor opener to make up for an the extra policy.

 

[zxcvbob]

I would encourage you to try the experiment with this map. It is just about mathematically impossible for the Honor opener to make up for an the extra policy.

The honor opener gives you more than just a little extra culture back. The notification when camps pop up near your trade routes and extra defense for your scouts is almost reason enough to take the policy.

 

[docdef]

Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1920AD
Turns played: 340
Base score: 1615
Final score: 2375

I actually finished this game a few days after it went live and then forgot to post here. I really enjoyed this game, and loved playing as the Shoshone having not played them before. Like some others on here, I've decided I am no good at 'fast' culture games (perhaps that should read 'fast' games).

I hit all my milestones, like getting Petra and being first to Printing Press etc; I just could not generate enough Tourism quickly enough early on. I did not generate any GM's until I had Hotels and Airports etc. to maximise how much Tourism they produced - perhaps that's not the best approach.

I did replay the game to get a sub 300 finish (not sure of the exact time), but have since read the tips in this thread and will look forward to trying them in the future.

 

[vadalaz]

I would encourage you to try the experiment with this map. It is just about mathematically impossible for the Honor opener to make up for an the extra policy.

Normally I'd agree, but in this case it doesn't seem like you need that many policies to win. The fastest reported victory so far is hitretz's T171, and on his screenshot the next policy costs 1390 culture. Assuming T13 Honor (T5 culture ruin to open Tradition, 8 turns to the next policy at 32/30 culture) and T170 victory goal, you have 157 turns to make 1390 culture with Honor on a map with raging barbs, which shouldn't be too difficult. That's like 1.1 brute per turn.