TSG17 Game in Progress

[FlowKey]

Actually you don't need any wonders for this map as domination victory. They are just a bonus if you can get any. Rushing to Keshiks is the key here. You can kill off most of AI with them and a few horseman/melee and beeline to rifleman. Once they are out , you can finish off the remaining AI with rifleman and keshiks.

Sounds nice in theory, but how do I 'rush' to Chivalry w/o at least GL and/or HS?

 

[killerloop]

I more or less agree with Justanother.

w/o GLib (and RA's) it should be possible to rush to Keshiks around turn 90. I won my game at turn 175, with Keshiks mainly. With GL and RA's you can get their 10-15 turns earlier, still, winning this game depends on your gameplay between turn 100 & 170. You don't need wnders in this period.

 

[Onan]

Have played through to about turn 244. Yep, I've definitely been taking a slower path, and have probably been a bit conservative as well, in terms of when I DoW on the AI.

After finally breaking through against Monty with the keshiks and occupying his capital, and deciding Siam via the peninsula would be suicide, our next step was to invade Russia. Conveniently, they had massed their troops offshore and backstabbed me first, chucking pikes up on the beaches vs. rifles, and allowing my small navy to mop up a bunch of their troops. Rifles, cannon, and a couple of keshiks landed at Moscow and took the city within a few turns, with very light resistance.

We then made peace with Cathy and this army pushed on towards Greece, via the city state in the way (Helsinki). In order to be able to upgrade my cannon to artillery, I first took Argos. With the artis and rifles, we took Athens. At that point this army was reduced to 3 or 4 wounded rifles and two artillery, with a fair number of Greek troops pressing around Argos. With Siam still first in troops, the next step I'd envisioned of a two-front assault on Siam was looking unwise, if not impossible.

Instead, we gave them the city of Argos in return for them DoWing Greece (plus a nice chunk of cash and coal). That should settle the eastern half of the continent for a while. Russia may decide to attempt to retake their capital, which is undefended...if they do I'll probably gift it to Askia or Rome.

The southern army that was massing against Siam is now moving west to prep for naval invasions of the other continent. Saving Siam for last.

I know this is slow compared to some who've posted here. I just want to finish, and am finding the (mild?) challenge reasonably enjoyable.

 

[isopaha]

I eventually failed this one. Managed to take Cathy's capital and finally secure it too and seize peace. Then began the slow moving of my invasion force to the last standing enemy, Askia. His capital's position is quite troublesome, so I decided to just cover the whole coast with my troops, while leaving a couple of reinforcements in the water. I supported my mech inf and rocket artilleries with 2 carriers and 2 battleships. After a couple of turns fighting his land units and taking heavy damage from the air, the battle seemed lost. As a last resort, I started pounding the capital. I got it to red HP in 1953, but lacked 2 more units to take it. I also managed to bombard it to red on the next turn, but had run out of land units. At this time it was funny how Askia was close to a diplomatic victory, Russia was close to a tech victory, Siam was close to a cultural victory and as mentioned I was really close to a domination victory. I didn't play through to see who would have taken the offical win.

Btw Monty DID delare on me at like 1900 with just pikemen when I had modern units. That was a really strange game on his part!

As this was my first attempt to a domination victory, I am quite satisfied with coming this close (though late in the game). I learned that a modern invasion is really hard, so I should invade the other continent(s) earlier, at least to form a beach head from which to invade the remaining capital(s) later.

 

[QuizMan]

Some advice would be much appreciated. As someone who has only ever won 1 game above Prince, I am finding this a real challenge. I am at about turn 200 and progress is at a standstill. I have captured Monty and Alex capitals (with a 3rd unmet capital also lost) and am currently banging my head up against Siam's. Just when I think I have broken though he rushes up a load more longswords and cavalry against my keshiks, horse and pikes. I am holding my own, but not really progressing.

Until now he has been offering peace only if I sell my soul, but then out of the blue he offered peace plus 10k gold. I have accepted, but the question now is what to do with the gold assumnig I declare again in 10 turns. I have 1 Siam city just south of his capital that I puppeted where my main force of 5 keshiks and 2 pikes plus GG are concentrated so maybe I just rush buy more units or maybe ally with a CS for iron and go for longswords.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[killerloop]

Quizman wrote:

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

From the sound of it it seems you're behind in tech, when you're fighting cavalry/LSM's with pikes.

my 10k would go in:
Universities and Libraries in your cities (fill up uni's with workers)
RA's with friendly states
a boat to start scouting for the other civs
upgrade of your pikes
ally some CS's to strengthen your economy
settlers/ workers for claiming lux resources that you can sell off for more money..
some happiness buildings if happiness is below 0.

If you're too far behind in tech you will loose, so get up to speed here!

BTW, how many cities do you have? How's the overall Tech status (Press F9)?

The good news is that Siam is broke, and army defeated otherwise he wouldn't have settles for this peace. Capture the capital quickly now and embed it in your economy quickly. (puppet 1st, then annex after revolt period and buy courthouse -keep 600 gold for this)

 

[QuizMan]

killerloop - thank you, sounds good advice. I only have 2 cities plus Monaco as puppet. Which is presumably why I am behind in science. Currently it is 41% against an average of 46% and Siam at 56%. I am also behind militarily on most except Spain so maybe I will set sail and sort her out while I build up techs.

I feel out of my depth at immortal but it is fun trying and I am picking up loads of hints and tips which is, afterall, the point of TSG isn't it.

 

[tommynt]

Ok here is what happened untill now for me:
wasnt interested in a no resource cap and my initial warri moving south didnt see anything good at the river - so I moved north and just went for a hill cap with deer insight (better as nothing at all).

As I hut did give me writing I went for a fast gl (think bo was scout - monument - granny - gl with buy worker at some point) followed by a national college after buiing a lib in 2nd city (free settler) afterwards I did need a 3rd city for horses at the obvious spot in south.

After this buildup (2nd city did build workboats hrabour and such stuff) I went for units only (considered oracle for a faster free scientist and a faster keshiks but didnt go for) -

at about t85 I upgraded 3 dudes to Keshiks and went right for the most vurnable target (Moscow) as all other caps I found were 20+ strength allready and I wasnt interested in loosing early units - it was takken pretty easy and I went on for 2nd weakest target - greece - dowed it afetr moving through open boarder right before its cap and took with help from newly arrived units

after that astromo was close and I considered boating allready but went with like 8 Keshics for Siam cap which was another easy take - meanwhile I found Rome and shika or so (had like 8 scounts in sea - 3 useless workers and other dudes sitting round)

So now I have to splitt units in a clever way to try take all 3 rest guys fast without failing 1 to not slow end - tecs cap is still surounded by loads of units and now 23 strength allready

 

[MAntoninus]

Looking for some help. I haven't won on Immortal and I think my priorities are off.

It's 800 AD and I find myself kind of pinned in. I've got a couple of Keshiks and Crossbows and a Pike and a Khan holding off Montezuma. My science went well early. I got the GL and NC in. Got to Keshiks pretty quickly.

But as I read what other people have done, I have nowhere near the resources.

At present I have 4 cities, Catherine has settled near me on the North. Every body seems to have Muskets. My Army isn't as big as I want it to be so I can't really go on the offensive.

The one thing I've done that I'm questioning is building too much buildings in my cities. Monuments or Water Mills and so on. I should probably be building more units in the early expansion phase.

Anyone have some tips on how to move from winning King/Emperor consistently to Immortal?

 

[xiziz]

I just gave this a spin, I found the start pretty though for warfare, lots of narrow fronts with rough terrain. Which got me bogged down at about turn 150 from which I have been dreading along until just before turn 200.
I had a good enough start though, given the start location. I settled on a grassland riverside hill on turn 3, to the south of the start, settled a second city five tiles west of that, great production location, then a third city by the water and mountain down south I could probably have done without. I did by my standards a good time to Chivalry at turn 104 with five horsemen and a chariot archer waiting for upgrade and the cash to upgrade them to keshiks(made the error of not keeping a horsemen back for taking the cities though, but since it was so narrow, it took me longer than expected to take down the first Aztec city).
Hit education at turn 123, snached Haga Sophia at turn 127 and used the GE for Notre Dame on turn 129. Somehow I managed to get Stonehenge on turn 160 too...
Took all through Liberty and went into Peity after bulbing Chivalry with the liberty closer.

So far I have pulled the Aztecs, Siam(those elephants are horrible with the pyramids on defence) and Greece out of the game, but left them all with cities left. Rome was eaten by Japan and Askia, and it looks like Japans capital will fall to Askia soon too. Next target is Moscow while building an army to go show Askia the way off the map.

I thought of two things during this game though, Do I just have to be the last with an original capital, or do I have to be in possession of them all?
Also, when upgrading to Keshiks, is it better to use lower hammer Chariot archers or Lower upgrade cost Horsemen?

I'm playing on the new patch though, so I assume its illegible for the competition, but its still fun to play along, especially with Mongolia.

 

[Mazer Rackham]

You polly played with your keshiks wrongly. They shouldn't be getting hit by anything at all with their movement speed even with the great wall. Always retreat them out of anyone melee atk if possible and with gg's healing....they are almost invincible until AI mass knights+. The key to finishing a fast domination is to send your main army to the other continent as early as possible without first finishing your own continent. You get fresh units out for your own continent conquest. Also you only need to aim for capitals.

This is great advice and something I will take away from this TSG. I've always had a suspicion that I handle wars too serially - one advancing front at a time with a small defensive flank or two.

Here is a summary of my game to turn 225, 1575 AD:

Spoiler :

Keshiks have been useful throughout even in spite of seeing cavalry and cannons in my most recent war.

To summarize the game so far, I went GL and used on Philosophy then NC. I went liberty for impending free FS for Chivalry. I used the free settler for the 6 horse (4+2) coastal site to the west and did also pick up Calendar for the happiness/cash for resource trades.

Monty declared early and sent a sizable, but ultimately impotent force my direction. I had a scout-archer, 1 chariot archer at the time (with 2 more in the queue), and the initial warrior. I never made peace and hit Chivalry in the early 90s with the help from the cultural Monaco. Money was tight for the upgrades (I hadn't been able to scout past Monty and didn't have sailing), but it only took 2 Keshiks and a horseman to take the first city which had been recently settled north of Monaco.

Throughout the game, I puppeted every city in this game though I annexed a few good production ones. It was a real pain taking out Monty because of the land. Sailing -> Optics was a priority after Chivalry. But I met the other AIs and got cash together and brought a 5 Keshik + 1 horseman army around taking the southern city first before taking out the capital. I left Monty with one city to the NE and took open borders to get through.

I went Piety -> the monument, temple happiness policy. Later I would take the right side of honor for the additional happiness policies. I also hard built ND fairly late in my horse city that was small in pop, but had OK production with a stable. I annexed the former Aztec capital to be able to develop an army closer to the action. I added Keshiks and a Lancer to replace the horseman city killer. In my own cities, I built the HS, the PT, universities, etc. I also annexed Moscow which had the HG - its a fantastic production city. Rivers everywhere too.

Siam was right there on the other side and had declared on Monty as I was finishing off his capital. Siam was the military leader at the time and I saw a scary hoard of elephants, catapults, and other troops moving toward Monty's last weak city. I actually positioned blocking troops to help him out because I didn't want to be Siam's next target.

Then Siam offered a DoF (sorry Monty, you are on your own) right after which Catherine declared on me. I guess she was raising her hand to be my next victim. As I was beating her down and getting close to Moscow, Alex decided to declare and volunteer to be the next victim. It was funny, I was able to take out 3 capitals and never have to declare war!

I did a lot of CS allying and took out Siam's capital after our declaration of friendship expired with super-Keshiks. Cavalry and cannons die in 2 or 3 hits from the correct terrain specialist and I have a lot of range 3, logistics keshiks. I have been rolling in cash with the puppet empire and signed RAs with everyone (just handing out cash for nothing to Cathy and Alex since they are still bleeding and don't really like me). Everyone except for Monty who is gone. Siam was actually the first to reach the Industrial, though I have the tech lead in the demographics. I'm 6 turns away from steam power.

On the other side of the world, Japan is also gone. Askia is a runaway and has the largest army, but doesn't have as high a score as me. Caesar still has his capital with the Kremlin and 4 other cities. I have my mounted army (2 Cavalry, a lancer, and a slew of Keshiks) landed/landing in Roman territory with the intent on going after Askia first. But I see a lot of rifles, cannons, the great wall and the Himeji Castle that I will have to deal with.

I'm not even quite sure exactly where his capital is. I have +30 happiness, the tech lead, 3 saved scientists, and RAs in place with everyone. I'm making 303 GPT in my golden age (still 10 turns left) and have half the city states in my pocket.

The game is a win... but... I should have simply concentrated on military builds and purchases instead of grabbing wonders, developing scientists/RAs and allying city states (well, maybe just take the ones with horses). The game would've been over when Siam's capital fell if I had taken care of business on the other side of the world.

 

[tommynt]

Looking for some help. I haven't won on Immortal and I think my priorities are off.

It's 800 AD and I find myself kind of pinned in. I've got a couple of Keshiks and Crossbows and a Pike and a Khan holding off Montezuma. My science went well early. I got the GL and NC in. Got to Keshiks pretty quickly.

But as I read what other people have done, I have nowhere near the resources.

At present I have 4 cities, Catherine has settled near me on the North. Every body seems to have Muskets. My Army isn't as big as I want it to be so I can't really go on the offensive.

The one thing I've done that I'm questioning is building too much buildings in my cities. Monuments or Water Mills and so on. I should probably be building more units in the early expansion phase.

Anyone have some tips on how to move from winning King/Emperor consistently to Immortal?

In fact when going for a dom win u dont need any other buildings as monuments (they are a mandoatory 1. build for me) in the other cities as cap apart lib if cap havent NC yet.
All u need is usually
a) astronomy at some point (cap teching + GL and maybe a scientist is enough to get around turn 110)
b) lots of units preferebly 1 strong army with around 4 units asap - best is imo nonmixed armies ie either LS only or Keshiks only (+1 horse)
c) later on more units for adding to 1. army and a 2nd army (5-6 units)

so focus on getting a strong cap and then 2-3 additional cities for producing units and getting strat res and lux and attack asap -
have units FIGHTING never sit back and relax - have em do something every turn - kill enemy units 1 by 1 and once all units are gone go for cities - keshics are great for pilliging while attacking aswell - this grants u a lot of gold for more units

I think I have had around 15-20 units by turn 100 in my game - splitting em into 2 armies.

also dont neglect scouting - send 2-3 scouts around after optics and astro in all directions - they are supercheap

go for weak targets 1. - just cause there is aztecs close doesnt mean u cant kill other civs while aproaching aztecs slowly (kill units 1by1 ...)

 

[MAntoninus]

I appreciate the response. I've been playing a more 'stripped down' military approach and it's competitive. Knowing that that's what I need to do makes it simpler to trust and vary from more economic or scientific approaches.