TSG180 AAR

[Knowtalent]

Welcome to the TSG180 After Action Report thread. In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state victory date and score (preferably in the post title), as recorded in the Hall of Fame, and the most important: your path to glory!
STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed and submitted your game.
Please attach your final, first play through, .Civ5Save file, saved AFTER the victory ceremony if you were not conquered (using the "Lemme play one more turn" feature.) In your post.
- How useful was your UA?
- Did you use spying to your advantage?
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
- What techs did you prioritize ?
- What did you think of the map and settings?​

 

[RHA_GTM]

My first game on the Deity difficulty level. And I think I made a Deity-beginners-mistake...

Around turn 70 I was ready to invade the Celtic empire. I almost succeeded in capturing their capital. My starting warrior could have finished the job, but he was nowhere around. He was fighting off some annoing barbarians. As I almost succeeded in capturing their capital, I got steamrolled by the massive Celtic army. I gave up around turn 80 because I was about to loose my capital.

I've learned not to rush with catapult-replacements on Deity, because by that time I live at the mercy of the AI.

Will try a second time though. I won't push that hard for an early war and maybe conquer Venice or something.

 

[urbis]

Retired defeated 525BC when capital taken - had founded a second city up north (and bought tiles to get the natural wonder with faith, but missed out on founding the last religion by 1 or 2 turns :-(), and had taken little cities of the Celts and the Americans down south, but did a poor job of defending when the Incans attacked. If I'd used one of my 2 great generals to create a citadel on a hill near my capital I think I could have held them off.

 

[socralynnek]

Was conquered by Inca after turn 101. They settled their third city close to my capital. Maybe I could have build more units, but I was kind of gambling that they might go to war or be attacked by someone else...

 

[Ozmandius]

Running about T250. Me and The Romans up front, Monte and Atilla with 4-5 cities each, USA and Byzantines with 1 city each.

Started with tradition. Settled one city on the river up north (close to Venice) and one on the river to the south (close to the Celts). Should have made one more city in the east by the mountains. After Tradition went Rationalism (3), then Order (3), then City states (3), then back to Order (2, need 1 more to get the space race ability).

Spies haven't been so important (since you get tech from you UA .. very nice that). Use them mainly to control city-states (and kill many many spies in my capital).

Really weird map. Still haven't found all the city-states out there on all those tiny continents floating on the huge map. It helped a bit that my neighbours started pretty close so barbarians were never really an issue for me (armies of them on all the islands out there though, with lots of captured (probably Roman) settlers).

Took out the Celts (~T150) as soon as I got siege towers (those are very strong, especially when backed up with a few bows). I had paid off the Celts to attack the Incas (or was it the other way around ...) and then cleaned up the Celts once her troops were elsewhere. Celts were reluctant to attack me as I had already adopted their religion and they pretty much blocked off the Inca (while the North end was blocked by Venice).

Paid the US to declare war on practically everyone and then attacked it. Quite a bit tougher than the Celts but was able to take the first two cities without too much trouble as the US was busy fighting Incans and Atilla. Third city I think I lost my first unit and 4th city (Washington) tough to crack. Had to upgrade some Siege Towers to trebuchets (to get some range units in on the attack). Washington never stopped building Wonders the whole time so his capital was quite nice. This was around T200.

Worth noting that between the 4 Celt cities and the 4 US cities I captured 8 techs (and a spy added one more). That helped a lot. It also meant I didn't really plan my tech tree (after siege towers) .. just went with what I got.

I met the Romans quite late (they had already killed off the Danes before I met them) and they had settled all over the place. Got a bit too clever and paid off everyone to attack them. Rome basically kicked everyone's butt (or at least held them off) and over 50 turns wiped out most of the Byzantines ( I grabbed Venice which Byzantines had killed off earlier which was maybe another mistake .. don't really need it and it probably helped weaken the Byzantines), captured almost every city-state on the main continent, and was hammering the Incans. When I saw the Incans start going down I jumped in and captured two Incan cities nearest me (capital and one other up north).

Since then I've been paying the Romans to attack people, and then when it looks like they are about to capture cities I bribe them to make peace and get them to attack someone else (and make peace).

Which brings us to around T250. Hardly a record breaking Science Victory but lots of fun. Just deciding now if I want to make the run to space or start a war with the Romans.

For those people having a bit of trouble with this scenario (or Diety in general), one key idea is bribing your neighbors to attack each other. This keeps them busy and helps you with trades as they have to trade with you as they are at war with (or hate) their other neighbours.

(One week later)

Decided to go after the Romans. Declared war and wow did he have a lot of units. I literally couldn't move forward as wave after wave came at me. In about 20 turns I managed to capture 1 city (used to be Inca), liberated 2 city states but lost 2 city states. Got nukes which let me clear the field a bit so pushed on through 2 more Roman cities (just to the left of Rome). The second city was on the coast (and contained Proara) and let me see a huge Roman fleet of battleships. Rome also got its own nuclear weapon at this point so I peaced out.

Over the next 10 turns I finished off Atilla (got Sistine Chapel), USA (got a fairly useless city but took it as the Romans were about to take it and it was way in my rear area) and the Byzantines (got Statue of Liberty and full Broadway). Also built a bunch of nukes.

Around T290, I restarted the war with the Romans. The 'Byzantine' army took over the 4 Roman cities (that the Romans had captured from the Byzantines). My main army pushed into Rome itself and headed east (after I had nuked every city on that front). At this point, Rome still had a huge navy but almost no army. They did drop a few nukes but never hit anything really important. Turn 310 I peaced out for the final time, liberated every city state that Rome control in the peace agreement, and Rome was no longer on the starting continent (still had ~20 smallish cities all over those outer islands though).

Turn 311 I finally launched for the SV. If I had skipped the Roman wars I probably could have finished 20-30 turns earlier but where's the fun in that!

One 'trick' I used in both wars is that Rome loves the world-wide construction events. For most of the first war, Rome built almost the entire International Games. For the second war, they completed 60% of the International Space Station. I more or less skipped both and built units while Rome did not.

Have restarted the game, and trying to play peaceful. Got up to turn 120 so far and Rome has run amok again. Has wiped out the Danes (again), taken 1 city from the Byzantines (again), taken 1 city from the Incans (again) and is settling all over the place (again). The Celts hate me this time. I think its because they were late getting their religion off the ground and didn't spread it to me. Both Incans and USA are at war with them and I'll probably jump in to take Edinburgh, if it gets softened up enough. In some ways this game is tougher since peaceful means no UA so no free tech. Got lots of friends though (and research agreements). We'll see how it goes.

[Another week later]

Paid the Celts to declare war on the Incans and after they had exhausted themselves I moved in and captured their last two cities by ~T150 (almost same time as the previous game).

This left the Inca as the only person really adjacent to me. Over the next 50 turns paid them to go attack people or paid others to attack them.

Settled a 5th city against the mountains to the NE of the capital (next to the iron and horses). Just build up tech and cities till around T200 when I opened Order. Rome went Autocracy shortly after and I had trouble with happiness for a while.

From T200 to T260 it was a series of wars of everyone against Rome. Managed it better this time and Rome got pushed back from all directions. Except that Rome took out the Inca (which I allowed as the Inca had dropped friendship and was being all envious of me). Just before my final peace with Rome I did liberate 2 Inca cities (and got nukes) and they were quite friendly after that.

From T260 it was just playing out the SV which I completed on T283.

Most helpful this game was being able to keep Venice and USA as friends the entire time, and the Byzantines and Incans about 1/2 the time (for Research Agreements).

As previous game, just keep paying bored neighbours to attack each other and that leaves you free to expand.

 

[so_what]

Update 1 ~ Ancient to Medieval
100t in I have settled 4 cities and taken 2 cities from Celts. Not too hard with the OP siege towers and comp bows. Going liberty (with Trad opener) has also helped with the hammers and settler. About 120t I took a city from america. The only issue is that pretty much the whole world except Rome hate me. This makes it hard to trade or sign RAs.

Rome appear to be snowballing despite I have tried my best to delay it. A war seems inevitable in the future. Hopefully I can remove some of my warmonger penalty if I get to liberate some cities and rebuild the diplomatic relationships.

Got Education at about 128t ~ which is really slow. I guess that it is partly due to poor land with little yields, large map, and a weak farming civ like Assyr. At this rate, a SV would probably be 275+ turns.

Pausing the game for now and I may return to resume it if I have time in the future to finish it.

Some afterthoughts: Assyria's UA is useful for Dom Victory but not really very useful for Sci Victory. I realized that even though I have 7 cities, the warmonger penalty and the cost of courthouses are probably more expensive than the Techs obtained from the UA.

==========
Update 2 ~ Medieval to Industrial

Continued the game (though I restarted from about turn 90). Similarly I took out 2 Celt cities, but this time I changed to play defensively after that.

From 100t to 150t was a series of wars that was declared on me by Inca, Rome, Byzantium, and America (not at the same time of coz). During which I successfully held up and took 2 cities from Byzantium. With better diplomatic management this time, I managed to retain friendship with Venice despite taking the cities.

At 193t, I opened Order. I am the second Civ to get ideology after Rome. Pausing the game again till I have time to come back next time. So far, it still looks like approximately 270+ turn spaceship launch.

Spies are pretty useful during this period. My first spy gave me Banking and Steel, after which I sent him off to the City States.

Screen Shot 2019-04-20 At 4.04.35 PM

• so_what
• Apr 20, 2019

195t order

=========
Update 3 ~ Industrial to Information

For the next 30 turn or so I was mainly doing Tech. During this period, Rome took out the last city of Byzantine. I bribed Caesar to attack the other Civs before Dow him. This allowed me to liberate Constantinople which significantly improved my warmonger score.

While I was fighting Rome, Venice and Denmark backstabbed me. I lost 2 caravans and for a moment my economy plummeted. Luckily for me, I was already at Electricity and building stock exchanges which saved my economy. I held back against Venice`s army and forced both of Venice and Denmark to peace out with me. The peace deal also provided me a huge sum of $.

At 237t, I researched plastic and I am the 2nd in Science, right after America. In this game, America is very strong in Science and it kept neck to neck with me all the way up to Modern Era.

At around 254 turns, I started bulbing all the saved GS. I have 11 GS in total, though with 10 GS I managed to finish all the necessary tech. Then, I built spaceship parts in 6 cities simultaneously and ended with Science Victory at 275 turn.

Diety SV

• so_what
• Apr 28, 2019

1st deity game

 

[Ozmandius]

If you get other people to join you in the wars (even if they can't reach the target) you don't get the warmonger penalty (with that person anyway).

 

[socralynnek]

Do they have to join immediately or is later in the war also ok?
Thanks for the tip anyway.
And nice writeup, maybe I'll give this one another try, focussing on getting the siege towers and military.
I didn't have money to bribe others to go to war in my try...

 

[Ozmandius]

The sooner the better.

Ideally (if you want to attack the Celts), you first bribe the Celts to declare war on the Inca, the USA, Venice .. everyone you can possibly get them to declare war on (and then you bribe the others ... Rome and Atilla for example, to declare war on Celts if Celts don't declare on them).

Wait a couple of turns so that the Celts can move their units to these other fronts, then denounce the Celts and declare war on them. You get all your bribe money back, you get a diplo bonus for denouncing a 'bad' person, and you get a diplo bonus for fighting on the same side in a war. Win-win-win for you ... not so good for the Celts. Also, as long as you are fighting on the same side the penalties for capturing cities seem to be (almost) nothing.

If you're not quite ready to fight the Celts you just bribe them to attack one person so they can build up some 'bad relations' for later.

 

[zxcvbob]

I've started this one several time. (if I finish one, which is doubtful, I might post about it but I won't submit it.) Usually around turn 200 I have 2 cities, and they are nice cities, but I'm falling farther behind the AI's even with my spy stealing lots of techs. A different AI runs away with it each time; sometimes it's Rome, sometimes it's the Huns, or even the Inca or Celts. If I bribe Attila to declare war on Rome, and he gladly does it (for just one lux), but then never attacks and makes peace after 10 turns. It's not fun, I'm just playing diplomatically to delay them killing me.

I should not even bother trying at deity level yet. Emperor is fun, and immortal is a stretch but I can sometimes pull it off.

I may try it one more time. Liberty, and ignore everything except archers and siege towers.

 

[so_what]

I've started this one several time. (if I finish one, which is doubtful, I might post about it but I won't submit it.) Usually around turn 200 I have 2 cities, and they are nice cities, but I'm falling farther behind the AI's even with my spy stealing lots of techs. A different AI runs away with it each time; sometimes it's Rome, sometimes it's the Huns, or even the Inca or Celts. If I bribe Attila to declare war on Rome, and he gladly does it (for just one lux), but then never attacks and makes peace after 10 turns. It's not fun, I'm just playing diplomatically to delay them killing me.

I should not even bother trying at deity level yet. Emperor is fun, and immortal is a stretch but I can sometimes pull it off.

I may try it one more time. Liberty, and ignore everything except archers and siege towers.

Too few cities... to win science at deity, you need to have at least 4 cities and also play aggressive.

 

[zxcvbob]

Too few cities... to win science at deity, you need to have at least 4 cities and also play aggressive.

I'm trying it again. Don't remember exactly what turn it is, but around 200. Currently have 5 cities (I razed 2), I founded a religion thanks to that natural wonder, and I'm about to colonize the New World. I'm still in last place in most categories, and 12 techs behind Rome.

Edit: Turn 320 now. I'm in 3rd place for science, still way behind Rome and Byzantines. I think I'm second in production, but it's a distant #2. America and Venice are dead (Denmark died very early, and Inca about 100 turns ago.) I'm about to declare war on Boudicca just because she annoys me, and she has a nice city nearby with furs and more oil. And it will be good practice to level-up my units. Theodora is close to a diplomatic victory, but if I kill her (which would not be easy by myself because she's stronger than me) Caesar could get a culture victory in just a few turns by taking out Monty. Or he can switch gears at any time to a science victory and I can't catch him. Attila is still in the game but pretty much irrelevant. It's been a fun game this time. I am 1 or 2 techs away from missile cruisers.

Edit 2: Theodora won a science victory on turn 340. I should have bribed Caesar to attack her as a distraction, but I didn't see that particular thing coming.

 

[Ozmandius]

I would suggest that you constantly bribe the AIs to attack each other. As long as they are building units, everything else slows down.

 

[so_what]

I'm trying it again. Don't remember exactly what turn it is, but around 200. Currently have 5 cities (I razed 2), I founded a religion thanks to that natural wonder, and I'm about to colonize the New World. I'm still in last place in most categories, and 12 techs behind Rome.

Edit: Turn 320 now. I'm in 3rd place for science, still way behind Rome and Byzantines. I think I'm second in production, but it's a distant #2. America and Venice are dead (Denmark died very early, and Inca about 100 turns ago.) I'm about to declare war on Boudicca just because she annoys me, and she has a nice city nearby with furs and more oil. And it will be good practice to level-up my units. Theodora is close to a diplomatic victory, but if I kill her (which would not be easy by myself because she's stronger than me) Caesar could get a culture victory in just a few turns by taking out Monty. Or he can switch gears at any time to a science victory and I can't catch him. Attila is still in the game but pretty much irrelevant. It's been a fun game this time. I am 1 or 2 techs away from missile cruisers.

Edit 2: Theodora won a science victory on turn
While I am not an expert but if u need more than 320 turn to reach Sci Victory on deity, then your playstyle is probably not ideal or not focus on SV.

While I m not a pro, but if u take more than 320t for SV on deity. then your playstyle is probably not ideal.

Edit
Did u bulb all the great scientists after plastic? If you do it correctly, you shd launch spaceship about 30t after plastic.

 

[leif erikson]

While I m not a pro, but if u take more than 320t for SV on deity. then your playstyle is probably not ideal.

In Game of the Month, we try to help one another to learn and get better. This is not really helpful towards that goal.

 

[so_what]

In Game of the Month, we try to help one another to learn and get better. This is not really helpful towards that goal.

So sorry for the very generic comment. Let me explain.

What I meant is that on deity, AI will definitely launch spaceship at approx 320+ turns. If you want to win SV, you should be winning before 320t (which is possible if you know how to correctly build the empire and bulb the GS after plastic)... as for how to build it correctly, it is best to watch some vids or streams since there are really many details/mechanics needed for deity.

I can only guess that perhaps he didn't save all the GS for bulbing? Otherwise, if the empire has been science focus enough, plastic by turn 270 is not too hard. And the bulbing of GS and building spaceship would at most take 40~50t.

 

[beetle]

I feel bad about not sharing my experiences with this map in a timely way. I lost my first game on T352 by SV. But I revisited it a few times, so that shows I enjoyed it enough!

Edit 2: Theodora won a science victory on turn 340. I should have bribed Caesar to attack her as a distraction, but I didn't see that particular thing coming.

I do not think this is an easier Deity game.

It took me a few reloads (with more war-bribing) but I eventually one on T337. I think you may need to speed up your Science game, but maybe not by too much.

The map is cramped, and settling the “New World” is a bad plan. Tradition is strong and easy to play, but I always want four cities. I also want at least one strong coastal city (for Trade Routes and to get Caravels out for unflagging the map).

It occurred to me that, for this game, my one strong coastal city should be Venice.

So I worked to make that happen. After NC, I built like six UU, which is the number I needed to have things go smoothly. I lost half of them, but that was okay. After that, I just turtled.

Attached is a screen shot from T144, just after I took Venice, but you can see where a mediocre player is, and it is good enough.

Spoiler :

 

[Nizef]

Late to the party as usual. The start was so slow, that I though this will not come to anything. 3 city NC on t95-ish. I settled a fourth next to the double cotton NW of Assur. Then I built five STs and three XB and, exactly as beetle has done, went after Venice. I took it at t147. My game is down to seven AI, since Attila conquered the Incas on t60-ish and Rome took out Denmark just after that. Attila has also reduced the Celts to the capital (+two newly settled cities on the other side of the map) and Washington to two cities. Since I took Venice, the game is, in practise, down to four AIs plus me competing for the win. My main concern at the moment is that I am eight techs behind Theodora and she is fighting Attila with the help of Rome, so she will be fine.

The craziest thing so far is that I managed to build HG on t121! Only Theodora and I went Tradition and it seems that she somehow "forgot" to build it. It is a new record late for me on Deity.

Much against how I usually play, I didn´t go for a religion and waited for Boudicca to spread her religion to me. It contained both Cathedrals and Mosques. I also managed to capture three Great Profets from Venice and they were all unused, so I planted them. All in all, my own FPT is now at 26 and I will be able to increase it to 61 with the cities I now have. That is not bad!

UPDATE

I am now on turn 248 and just researched Plastics. However, I am still 4-5 techs behind runaway Rome. It was also very disappointing to find out that I am FOUR tiles from the nearest Coal… and Aluminium... and Oil.

Lastly I would like to say that I liked many things about this game: the Civ to play, the map, the starting location, the mix of AIs and the standard speed. I only disliked the lack of ruins.

UPDATE #2

It is t318 and Rome is still in the lead by 4-5 techs and I have 9 techs still to research for the spaceship. I have 6 GS unpopped. This will go right down to the wire. My tiny hope hangs on their continued war with Attila. Actually both Rome and Attila´s Court are Pop1 and are frequently conquered by the other. However, Rome has 40 cities, nukes and they are building spaceship parts. Monty is down to one city, Theodora to two, the Celts and Venice to three each. I am up to seven cities to get the strategic resources necessary (oil to stay alive and aluminium to construct the spaceship parts).

UPDATE #3

Rome launched on t353. I still had four turns before the last part would have been ready. Lessons learned is that much of the end result came down to two things: 1. the slow start and 2. the fact that I had to go for autocracy (as most of the pack) and number two being more devastating than the first one. On a more strategic level, I should have played more aggressively to utilize the Assyrian UA better and perhaps I should have prioritized culture generation more.

Right at the end I had my seven cities, Venice and the Celts were at three, Monty, Attila and Theodora were all at two each. The rest of the map was purple.

 

[Nizef]

One more thought: I should have conquered Mombasa early or even instead of Venice. That city would have been the answer to almost everything: Aluminium, Coal and the religious NW.

 

[beetle]

@Nizef, CS are always better as allies than conquests. You would still get the Aluminum and Coal.

I think you should go back to T248, build the labs, then stay on Science focus. Eight to ten turns after your last lab, you should be bulbing a GS just about every turn for several turns. Did you ever plant a 4th native city? Did you get Hubble? T250 plastics should be good enough to win by SV.