TSG41 After Action Report

Game: Civ5 GOTM 41
Date submitted: 2012-08-05
Reference number: 26815
Your name: groorg1
Game status: Science Loss
Game date: 1993AD
Turns played: 414
Base score: 1770
Final score: 1770
Time played: 9:15:00

Had a similar experience to most of the posters. (This is only my second GOTM, the first being #40, which was a reasonably straightforward win.) Never tried a cultural victory before, so I think I made a bunch of mistakes. I did get my culture per turn up to 1000 by the end but I lost by 5 turns...

Early game was bad because of, you guessed it, Rome. Augustus came at me for my second city, Adrianople, founded up the river southwest of Jakarta/southeast of Rio. I beat back one assault, made peace. Second assault took Adrianople, but I got it back 12 turns later, mostly because I bribed Jakarta at a key moment to slam the incoming Roman units. Rio was at war with me but wasn't aggressive enough to threaten Adrianople. Dido got to two cities before Augustus eventually conquered her, but she did survive for awhile. (I brought her back to life around 1940 with a reconquest.) Mostly was playing like a diplomatic victory trying to get military, culture, and science support from city states, using Tradition, then Piety, then the city state policies, and then in the endgame the Great Person tree and finally Commerce.

Went with three cities (getting Adrianople back) -- Constantinople in the starting position, Andrianople up north, and Nicaea (I think?) down at the southern end. Built Petra in the capital, which had 6 deserts so I thought that was pretty good and was too nervous about waiting to use it in the western desert proper, but maybe that was a mistake. Eventually founded a fourth city, Antioch, on the westernmost tip of the island. Even without Petra that was a pretty nice city. Constantinople was one of the highest production cities I've had -- rarely have I actually run out of buildings to build.

Around 1900 I really got tired of Augustus and his endless denouncing and backstabbing and just wiped him off my continent. Way too much military for a Cultural Victory, perhaps.

I was still substantially behind the civs on the big continent in terms of tech for most of the game, but that was probably okay given a cultural victory, but I fell just short, with China eventually conquering most of the continent (destroying Monty early, and mashing Spain and India when the game ended, leaving only France as a major power). China clearly had a big tech lead so I had all my city state allies declare war on her in 1990 but it was too late; I should have explored/done that 10 turns earlier, but my world exploration phase was QUITE late, beginning around 1950 with some destroyers. Didn't think about the fact that all those city states I couldn't see could have been giving me culture. By the time I got out there I had a ton of cash, so I certainly could have won Diplomatic victory before then.

Interesting, but I'm still not 100% sure what the cultural victory path is.
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 41
Date submitted: 2012-08-05
Reference number: 26816
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1985AD
Turns played: 405
Base score: 1661
Final score: 2050
Time played: 12:53:00

Made a real mess of my social choices, started ok with tradition but then due to Romes constant attacks started the honor tree. But I ended up finishing that (and tradition), before opening up piety and liberty, for much of the game missed out on the 2 much needed social upgrades in those 2 trees which reduce culture required for the next policy.

Oh, I ended up getting my free worker and settler from the liberty tree in about 1700AD :rolleyes: the settler got deleted straight away....

Monty crushed china fairly early and then france, he was well ahead of me in tech so I was worried he'd get a science win. So built lots of troops and attacked spain who was nearest to get a beachhead, plan being to attack Monty straight after. As I was finishing off spains last city he completed the manhatten project, and I chickened out :)

Shortly after that he completed apollo, then 2-3 space ship parts, but no more after that -he was too busy building A-bombs and more troops.
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 41
Date submitted: 2012-08-05
Reference number: 26818
Your name: Arilian
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1846AD
Turns played: 293
Base score: 1046
Final score: 1803
Time played: 3:22:00
Submitted save: Theodora_0293 AD-1846.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Arilian_C504101.Civ5Save

Details tomorrow :)
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 41
Date submitted: 2012-08-05
Reference number: 26817
Your name: SonOfDad
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1820AD
Turns played: 280
Base score: 1495
Final score: 2669
Time played: 14:04:00
Submitted save: Theodora_0280 AD-1820.Civ5Save
Renamed file: SonOfDad_C504101.Civ5Save

This is my first time submitting a GOTM (first time posting as well) though I've completed a few before. I seemed to do especially well this time so wanted to post to share some of the things that I think made it successful. For reference, I typically play on Emperor but usually win. I did not post in the Game in Progress thread.

Things that I did differently from many others:

1) I didn't place early focus on the nearby desert tiles.

I'm a big believer in not necessarily settling in place, especially on games where I'm going to go tall. If you're only going to build four cities, they better be in exactly the right spots. I scouted south, north, and west with both the warrior and the settler - discovered two things of note (founded capital on turn 3 I think).

First, I could fit five wine into my capital if I settled just east of the ivory. I hadn't tried out Monastaries before, but they seemed pretty appealing here.

Second, there seemed to be some desert/hill tiles to the west. I feel like lots of people overestimate the impact of Petra and Desert Folklore on basic desert tiles. All Petra does for a basic desert tile is turn it into a Plains tile, not really that impressive. Desert Folklore on a regular desert tiles is also pretty bad, especially pre-Petra. Where Petra and Desert Folklore shine is on Desert/Hills tiles as well as Oasis, Desert/Stone, Desert/Salt (desert/salt is awesome), etc. Petra and Desert Folklore can also be good if you start in the middle of a vast desert and don't have any other options. In this game, we obviously had other options (5 wine!) and likely a better location for a future Petra city, so I decided to ignore the early desert and found just east of the Ivory.

I wanted to make sure to get to use the Byzantine UA, so I went Pottery => Shrine pretty quickly. I took Goddess of Festival for my Pantheon. This was a great choice in my opinion. Helped get me some early culture and faith with all the Wine tiles. Working all of those Wine tiles hurt my capital's growth a lot, so allying with the Maritime CS's was important.

2) The other thing I did very differently from others was that I went Liberty instead of Tradition. I think this worked out well. Tradition is great for quick growth and expansion of territory, but I feel that culture games are won in the mid-game, not early game. Zooming ahead in culture early doesn't really get you anywhere long-term. Ironically, I almost always open with Tradition in other games. Going liberty first earned me the following:

*Free settler to grab a good spot to the east before Rome / Carthage could (between the two mountains so I could get four luxs). This upset them quite a bit, but more on this later.

*Free Golden Age. With allying the Maritime CS's early so important, the extra gold helped a ton.

*Free GP. After some scouting, I knew exactly what I was going choose: I GE to rush Petra in a city in the Desert/Hills to the west. I saw a lot of talk about the "perfect Petra location" in the In Prgress thread. To me, the Desert/Hill on the river that only touches on Coast tile is my perfect Petra location. Two fish and three flood plains for growth and almost ten Desert/Hills (four with sheep! - with a stable and pre-fertilizer, that's a 3/4/1 tile). By the end of the game, this city was pop 26 with 137 production and over 100 gold. I had built 12 wonders in it.

*The last thing going liberty first got me was being able to defer the free culture building from Tradition until they could get me free Opera Houses.

One general thing that I've started doing since G&K is to focus on gold. I think lots of players see gold as a hassle, often struggling to "balance their budget" which I assume means not running a deficit. I saw advanced players doing the opposite and accumulating large amounts of gold through selling luxuries and not fielding too large of an army. They would then spend that gold aggressively. Gold is great, because it can fill in the holes in your empire.

Production poor? Rush buildings. Under attack? Rush units. Poor growth? Bribe Martime CS. Poor culture? Buy tiles as needed. Low science. Sign research agreements (although you should pretty much always do this regardless as they give such large boosts).

Anyway, not trying to sound preachy in all of this; just wanted to give some advice since it looks like lots of people had a hard time.

Other interesting things that happened:

Rome and Carthage both DoWed me at the usual time (turn 70 maybe?). I had founded that city I mentioned to the east. I put it on the side of the mountins closer to them (so they could easily get three units next to it) and found myself regretting not founding it one tile to the west to use the mountains as a funnel. I got lucky that Carthage attacked as well since all they did was jam their useless warriors in front of Rome's legions. It was touch and go for a while, but by getting walls built and focusing the balista and archers, I was able to fend them off. Carthage gave up after 20 turns or so, but Rome stayed at war for a long, long time. I eventually paid Carthage to declare on Rome, which got Rome to make peace with me (he immediately went to Friendly!). Of course, he backstabbed me about 15 turns after. Those waves of Roman units look intimitading, but getting to fight him on rough terrain helps slow them down enough that they can be picked off. I feel like the AI fights way better on open terrain.

I screwed up my religion pretty badly. I felt like it was going to take too my effort to spread my religion beyond the starting island, so I actually wound up taking 3 follower beliefs (the one that gives 100 gold for every conversion as the founder belief. plus conversion strength for enhancement I think). Stupidly, I didn't take cathedrals as any of those 3. I thought that by the time I could afford to buy Cathedrals I would already have enough Artist slots. I found out that there is no such thing as enough Artist slots when going for a culture victory. I took Monastaries, +2 faith for wonders, and +8 culture from Hermitage. I guess it wasn't as bad as I thought - if I could redo it, I would sub Cathedrals for the Hermitage bonus and leave the others the same. I'm sure a lot of people went for World Church. I felt at first that I wouldn't get enough foriegn followers. Going back and counting, it looks like I had about 250 at the end, which would be 60 extra culture (after the Golden Age bonus. I was running at almost 1,200 culture per turn a the end, but a 5% bonus would have been very welcome. Maybe sub World Curch for +2 faith from wonders (though that accounted for about half of my faith per turn which let me buy a few Great Artists). The extra 100 gold per conversion was very helpful, expecially since it started to hit in the thick of the Roman wars.

I also puppeted two cities (Carthage - which I stole from Rome once he got it low enough - and Hippo Regius - for which I pulled the same trick but against Brussels). I don't think puppets really help much at all for a culture victory. Unless they come with a bunch of luxuries since I'd rather keep selling my excess luxuries for gold instead of having to keep them to offset the extra unhappiness. The extra culture they produce shure doesn't do much in the grand scheme of things.

Founded my fourth city upriver from capital wedged close into Jakarta. Pretty decent city site, but it was only getting me a little less than 100 culture at the end, so I think it wasn't quite pulling it's weight from the culture requirement increase.

I was hoping to get to Syndey Opera House, but once it became apparent that wasn't going to happen in time, I pushed to Cristo Redentor and rushed with the GE I took from Pisa.

By the end, I had allied every single CS. Constant Golden Ages had me earning tons of money. None of the AI were too agreesive trying to take them back (no Greece, Austria, or Siam helped I guess).

Last thought - it was weird ignoring science so much. I was running at 465 bulbs per turn by the end, but that was only because I randomly built research labs as I waited for Utopia. 250-350 is the range I was in for the last 100 turns which barely kept me paced with Rome. A little scary since he obviously had a ton of units running around and I couldn't rely on having more advanced units than him. Luckily, he decided he loved me after the second war and he never threatened again despite my random 8 unit army of crossbows, cataprachts and whatever the military CS's gave me.

I'd apologize for the massive post, but no one forced you to read it! let me know if there's anything anyone would like me to elaborate on.

Note on save file: I had one crash around turn 200 or so. I also reloaded my turn 276 autosave once I realized I was going to post because I didn't know we were supposed to save after victory. Neither instance changed anything.
 
This is my first time submitting a GOTM (first time posting as well) though I've completed a few before.
Welcome to CivFanatics and GOTM. :wavey:

Glad you joined us and congrats on your win. Nice write up, :thanx:
 
Date submitted: 2012-08-05
Your name: Robert Smith
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1822AD
Turns played: 281
Base score: 1179
Final score: 2105
Time played: 7:44:00

Wonders:
I missed Terracota Army and Alhambra 20% culture boost....
I'm not sure if it was bad "wonder planning" from me but I took GL and couldn't avoid a GS => 15 Culture Landmarks (3 or 4 from faith), 1 Academy, 1 Holy Site
With a coastal site I could build Colossus but I missed Macho Picchu to Ai.

Policies:
Tradition, Piety (great for faith => buy GA). I open 3 Patronage (Scholasticism) before Freedom (need more science...). After Freedom I closed Patronage before I open Liberty. My hope was to get a free GE, but I got a GM and a GS => No Cristo Redentor. I was ally with all 16 CS for the last 30 turns (I had 3 special agents) and lot of money.

War
In T60 both Rome and Dido DoW on me but it was never a problem since I was ally with Jakarta and Brussels. Problem was lack of money, everything was delayed until I met the other Ai around t150. I only build 3 archer and one horse, later i got some units from CS.

Religion:
+1 culture, +1 faith from wine and incence
Cathedrals
Monasteries
Tithe
+1 food from shrines and temples (maybe better with culture from temples)
Religious Text

I settled one coastal site (the desert site). But SOH is to late, but it was fun to hunt Dido ship especially in the end with my frigate.

Build order in Capital:
Scout, Worker, Shrine, Archer (tech-ruin), Granary/Settler (pop=5), Pyramid, GL
1 worker stolen

Thx to all good threads/posts I have improved my micro management like buying the oasis title near capital (previous I didn't like money ruin, but I have changed my mind...) and always have productions focus with food tiles locked (to earn some hammers when growing).

Very nice thread almost the same as Tabarnaks game in progress write-up ;)

p.s I love the CS quest. In this game I had "Jakarta want u to connect species" (species was inside Jakarta territory...) d.s
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 41
Date submitted: 2012-08-05
Reference number: 26825
Your name: maxp
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1980AD
Turns played: 400
Base score: 1634
Final score: 2042
Time played: 4:34:00
Submitted save: TSG41_MP400_CulturalVictory.Civ5Save
Renamed file: maxp_C504101.Civ5Save

I got attacked by Augustus early on: I had 1 warrior and he had 6 prateroians and 5 archers. I survived thanks to the rough terrain. He then decided carthage was an easy target and took them in 2 turns.

After slowly pushing the battle front I took his capital around turn 300. After that it was easy sailing, however, at the end there was a race with the aztecs who had 4 pieces towards the science victory.
 
Your name: Arilian
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1846AD
Turns played: 293
Base score: 1046
Final score: 1803
Time played: 3:22:00


I went Two city tradition, but I tihnk the idea from SonOfDad would have been better. Petra Desert Sheep with stables is awsome :)
Attacked by Augustus, as he settled right next to my capital. My UU horses easily countered the attack and captured this city. It was good, full grassland trading post, bringing 100g+ / turn at the end.

Went Tradition, Piety (it is still week even for culture I think, only choose this because the +33%culture policy) Commerce, Freedom, Liberty.

I tihnk either OCC or Liberty 3City should be better, I intend to try them out.
 
Your name: Haphaz
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1935AD
Turns played: 355
Base score: 1013
Final score: 1426
Time played: 3:42:00

Wow. Very happy with that. I thought the King level last game was a stretch and didn't think I'd be able to win a Emperor GOTM. Almost got KO'd by the Roman DOW, but managed to save it with a lucky alliance with Jakarta. Rome badgered me for the rest of the game (after taking out Carthage), but was able to fend it off with equal level tech (my man of the match was the spy in Rome who must have got me about 8 techs). Game setup gave some very fun border wars.

Went with 4 cities (the first settled too close to Rome / Carthage). Mulled going for a puppet empire, but I'm not good enough to focus on culture and arms. My cagey attacks were always aborted when I saw Rome rally its forces. Was feeling at risk until I contacted the other continent and got their money for Wine (that and tithe kept the economy afloat with a big army). Luckily Monty only went on the rampage in the other continent around turn 300. By turn 350, the moon was getting quite crowded with Apollo missions - even sent my own out there - didn't want to feel left out :)

Thanks again, another great game moderators. But if you up the level to Immortal next time, my nerves won't be able to take it. Definitely improving my play style at higher levels.
 
Your name: pontias
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1882AD
Turns played: 311
Base score: 1332
Final score: 2148
Time played: 7:54:00
 
Code:
Game:	Civ5 GOTM 41
Date submitted:	2012-08-06
Your name:	gkreitz
Game status:	Culture Victory
Game date:	1884AD
Turns played:	312
Base score:	1633
Final score:	2633
Time played:	9:05:00

That was a fun game, thanks for setting it up! Rome was predictably war mongering. I figured it'd be worthwhile bribing Carthage into a war with them, which ended with Rome conquering all of their cities.

As AIs were not caring at all for wonders, I wonder spammed like there was no tomorrow and grabbed pretty much everything, including Alhambra. I also got great wall, so I kept Rome on a 100+-turn long war to level up 4 crossbowmen. These were later upgraded to gatlings and used to conquer Rome on his 3rd or 4th DoW. At that point, the game was already won, so I eliminated him and resurrected a grateful Dido.

Felt like I had good culture output throughout the game, but science was a bit lacking (finished Tradition, Piety, and Honor before unlocking Freedom...). Settled 4 cities (east by the mountain, north by extra wine, and west by sheep, river and coastal). Religion with +1/1 from wine/incense and tithe, cathedral, pagoda, monastery meant a ton of happiness, culture, and money.
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 41
Date submitted: 2012-08-06
Reference number: 26832
Your name: Jansrald
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1894AD
Turns played: 317
Base score: 1245
Final score: 1976
Time played: 5:01:00
Submitted save: Theodora_0317 AD-1894.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Jansrald_C504101.Civ5Save

This is my first time submitting a GOTM and my first time posting as well, though i've been lurking around for some time.

I think it was one of my best game ever, and my first try at a cultural victory. I managed to keep Augustus and Dido away with only a few units, build all the wonders i liked and purchase the love of numbrous CS. For a best score, i'll need to work on my micromanagement and timing!
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 41
Date submitted: 2012-08-06
Reference number: 26833
Your name: Minime
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1832AD
Turns played: 286
Base score: 1449
Final score: 2542
Time played: 8:18:00

Fun game:), went Liberty, then piety, freedom/tradition, commerce

For religion, took pantheon desert folklore. World Church, Peace loving, Cathedrals, Monestaries.

Missed Alhambra. Got (by chance) the wonder that gives +50% golden age, and golden ages are very nice for culture wins.

Lost time on Rome in the beginning, its costly to fight a war I was stupid enough to not prepare properly for. Dido and Ceasar were quickly Hostile so of course I knew it was coming. If it were not for Huts that upgraded both scout to Archer and warrior to Spearman, I think I would have had a serious problem. With a couple of more archers upgraded with construction, I managed to keep Rome at bay.
A few turns after Rome Dows, Carthage joined in too. And I knew they would not stop so I kept spitting out a few more units. Took carthage and two roman cities, including Rome. That shut ceasar up. But of course it deterred my attention from culture for a while.
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 41
Date submitted: 2012-08-06
Reference number: 26834
Your name: CharonJr
Your email: xxx
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1806AD
Turns played: 273
Base score: 1578
Final score: 2922
Time played: 10:13:00
Submitted save: Theodora_0273 AD-1806.Civ5Save
Renamed file: CharonJr_C504101.Civ5Save

Not much happened after my earlier initial report.

I don't think I made any glaring mistakes, but moving the initial settler to cover the 2 additional wine in the north and focusing more on research once I got the major policies might save about a dozen turns in the end.

I was researching ecology when I finished the 5th tree (got about 880 beakers/turn), with a bit more focus on research I think I should have been able to complete the SOH for the final SP and get a bunch of techs earlier than I did.

The only wonder I did not get in the entire game was the Great Wall and I actually did get it since it was build in Rome a couple of turns before I conquered it.

The 2 puppets were nice for the gold they provided, but hardly produced any culture (about 10 cp/turn from both puppets combined IIRC).

On the other continent China, Monty and India were pretty much balanced till the end (about 850-900 points each) with France being reduced to 1 city and Spain left with 4 cities.

On my continent Rome had 4 cities and by placing my units around Carthago I prevented Rome from taking Dido's last city.

Overall I think settling a 4th city might have been the better move due to more research and a bit slower SP gain.

I settled 8 GA, 2 GS and 1 GP and signed about 10 RAs.

Constantinople was at 35 citizens at the end, but was outproduced by the 26 citizen Petra desert/river/sea city. I made about 1.1k culture and 450 gold each turn during a GA at the end. Happiness was at 100 points in the end.

Having lots of money was very nice and in the end I had allied all CS with the AI occasionally taking one away from me and me buying it right back.

Had a couple of crashes - mostly when taking a break the game has locked up when I got back. From the number of G&K games I have played so far the game feels less stable than before, but Civ5 has never been very stable on my system in the first place.

Overall - except for some tension with the Roman DOW and the early wonder rushes - it was a fairly boring/uneventfull game. Even at the end the only demographic categories where I wasn't in the lead were soldiers (India) and production (China).

I think the key here is getting maritime CS for quick growth and selling lots of lux to get those CS allied asap.
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 41
Date submitted: 2012-08-06
Reference number: 26835
Your name: qyll
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1900AD
Turns played: 320
Base score: 1426
Final score: 2228
Time played: 2:40:00
Submitted save: qyll GOTM41 320 AD-1900.Civ5Save
Renamed file: qyll_C504101.Civ5Save

I'm a hardened warmonger, so going culture is something I'm uncomfortable with. I didn't even realize Alhambra gave you a 20% culture boost until I read this thread. Oops. Anyway, I settled in place and then got 2 more cities before I puppetted Dido and Augustus's empires.

I wasn't sure if that was the right path to take or if I should've just concentrated on building up my own cities and defending them. Anyway, I learned a lot. Cool game.
 
This is my first time submitting a GOTM and my first time posting as well, though i've been lurking around for some time.
Welcome to CivFanatics and GOTM. :wavey:

Congrats on your win. :high5:
 
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