TSG58 Opening Actions thread

[Tabarnak]

I'm trying an OCC attempt here. I settled 2 tiles right of starting location(lost a turn). There isn't much room to expand(decently) and i decided to try something different. Build order was : scout, granary, GL, some archers, NC. I beelined Currency and built Petra. Then i started on HG but lost that wonder 2 turns short. I didn't start Oracle at all, on turn 106 when i wanted that wonder it was already gone(105, Egypt). Don't know why i delayed it since that we can save policies for this GOTM

So i reached Edu on turn 104 i think and completed Tradition. Then i saved all policies for Freedom. Reached Archeology on turn 159 with 2 RAs, 1 gs and Oxford. Immediately finished Freedom for a nice culture boost. From that point it's only ending turns and fighting Liz who expanded toward me.

I'm now on the turn 201 and i predict a finish between the turn 275 and 280. Losing Oracle made me lost 8-9 turns.

A 2 cities set-up would have been better here. I should have settled in place for my capital and put a 2nd city right of there near desert tiles for Petra(so i could build HG in my cap in time). A 2 cities game can neat a lot better opportunities and sub 250 finish and i would have been able to reach Archology much faster.

No more OCC...

 

[Maxym]

Maybe a currency beeline and chopping would get Petra in 2nd city, but in my game it went pretty fast to Egypt. I didn't feel the terrain justified it. So pure OCc no puppets? Interesting approach. Which AI ended up dominating in your game?

 

[Tabarnak]

Maybe a currency beeline and chopping would get Petra in 2nd city, but in my game it went pretty fast to Egypt. I didn't feel the terrain justified it. So pure OCc no puppets? Interesting approach. Which AI ended up dominating in your game?

I read other posts and i saw some Petras built pretty fast by Egypt...

Pure OCC, but at this point of the game some puppets will not accelerate the finish time at all...after archeology there is nothing left excepted Cristo but my tech rate is way too slow.

But like i said the ideal would be a 2 cities approach with Petra in 2nd city with a settled in place capital...if Egypt doesn't play the troublemakers...

Hiawatha and Byzantines are full friendly(RAed them) and Elizabeth is the big warmonger here. I deliberately slowed down Hiawatha by pushing some units near my capital to intercept (without capturing) a settler. He finally settled...20 turns later!

 

[Halcyan2]

Settled in place.

Decided to go for 4 cities.

Beeline for Writing (GL) then Mathematics (HG) and Currency (Petra), with Mining and Masonry along the way. Leisurely approach to Education. After that, Chivalry and Physics and Machinery. I know Physics/Machinery is a bit out of the way for Acoustics/Architecture but oh well.

Science has been slower than normal (for me). Normally I like to shoot for GL, open Philosophy, and then build the NC. However in this game, I had to delay the NC till the mid 80's, so that I could get Stonehenge and Hanging Gardens before Egypt snapped them up. Also, I've been slow to Education and haven't built any universities yet (prioritizing wonders instead). Which is okay I guess since I don't have the population to staff the scientist slots anyway. I'm only running about half my artist slots right now - would really love to use them all but between growing my cities and focusing on production (for wonders) I can't afford the peeps.

SP's have been all over. For example, started off with: Tradition opener + Aristocracy. Liberty + Citizenship. Piety + Mandate of Heaven. There is a method to my madness, but only time will tell if it actually pays off!

Have four cities, but they are smaller than I would like. When I decided to get my fourth city, I sort of overextended myself in terms of gold and happiness, so it took me awhile to recover.

My capital has been (Turn number is an approximate):
Great Library (T 40)
Stonehenge (T 60)
Hanging Gardens (T 75)
National College (T 85)
Oracle (T 97) - would have preferred to wait, but needed to beat Egypt!
Terracotta Army (T 108)
followed by the Great Mosque, and now working on Alhambra

My second city has been:
Petra (T 92)
Great Lighthouse (T 104)
followed by the Great Wall and now working on Angkor Wat - I know, I should really be building a university instead!

My third city is a bit of a downer. Smallest pop and low production potential. But I did manage to get Hagia Sophia.

My fourth city has Chichen Itza and Machu Picchu, and next up is Notre Dame.

Deliberately passed on the Pyramids (it was tempting) which went to the Iroquois. And unfortunately, France stole the Colossus! I was really looking forward to it!


Made some silly mistakes due to lack of unfamiliarity with Policy Saving and also when using the Avoid Growth button.

Religion is Fertility Rites + Tithe + Divine Inspiration + Cathedrals + Religious Texts. Really raking in the Faith now and my religion is rapidly spreading. Nearby, the Iroquois chose Pagodas and Byzantium has Monasteries, so I actually hope they send a Great Prophet my way. Their religions are confined to only their capitals right now.

Hiawatha and Theodora have been my Friends all game long. Napoleon and Darius have consistently been Friendly, but no official DoF. Alex and Ramesses are standoffishly Neutral (as normal). Alex's main beef is my friendship with Hiawatha (his enemy) and city state competition. Ramesses is mad because I haven't let him get any wonders. I particularly enjoyed snatching Petra from him (he was only a turn or two from completion). However, he recently switched to "fake Friendly," so I anticipate a DoW from him in the near future. Elizabeth was Hostile for the early game. Eventually, I tried to mend fences by rescuing her settler. But despite being Friendly, she's massing her forces outside my capital for an attack. Fortunately, it's mainly weak units and she's gonna have issues with the Great Wall.

Even though I could probably trounce them, I'm not sure if I really want a massive puppet empire. The happiness costs just don't seem worth it. Plus, it increases the cost of my national wonders too!

 

[Halcyan2]

Oh yeah. I'm amused by how aggressive the AI's have been in their expansion:

- Alex settled very aggressively towards Hiawatha. Originally, I had considered sending a settler to hopefully grab the Uluru/Incense spot but I was worried that Hiawatha would take it first. Lo and behold it was actually Alex who had already settled there even though it's quite far from his capital!

- Elizabeth has been trying to settle north towards me, even though there was still space on her empty peninsula to the east. And she opted to not expand toward Theodora.

- Napoleon, Ramesses, and Darius have all been aggressively expanding towards each other and fighting (I'm just glad that Ramesses is focused westward). Napoleon is getting crushed though. He only had three cities and then lost Lyons to Egypt, and gave up his second city in the peace settlement, leaving him with only Paris and surrounded on multiple fronts!

 

[marekb]

Great Library (T 40)

At which turns have you built cities? Usually if I go for 4 cities I cannot start working on wonders before t40 or even much later as I need to build workers, settler and some defence (usually it is possible to buy 1-2 settlers from selling luxuries, but this game, without ruins, AI seemed not to have enough cash.

 

[glory7]

settled 3E, desert hill. I wanted desert forklore and petra, and 3f tiles at the beginning for the rapid growth. Spent 2 turns though.

Could not find great city spots so decided to go one city till NC. After that, considered one more city but without representation I didn't think it would worth it.

I spent long time thinking which path to go at the beginning - tommynt path that extract gold from AIs but sacrifice RA opportunities and lux trading (and risky if my army is not good enough), or peaceful approach. After several gotms, I am just so into tommynt path - early gold boost for rush-buying is great (I think I bought 2 warriors and 4-5 archers so that I could get good peace deals and use those units to do barb quests).

More importantly, it seems that early DoWs delay AIs progress significantly. I do not want to worry about AIs taking my wonders.

I DoWed iroquis to buy worker early and stole his worker - those two workers are the only workers I have in my cap. I also took one worker from egypt, france, and persia (deleted them after some scouting). I believe that those worker stealings and gold extraction delayed them a lot.

cap BO: monument - scout - granary (worker bought) - GL - NC - HG (watermill bought) - Petra.

policy: full tradition fast, pat opener. not sure about the next steps.

Met 4 culture CS total and allied all of them around t80 when I got civil service. +48 culture from 4 CS are really nice.

Not playing usual 4 city tradition, so science would be lacking bad in mid-late game. likely to reach edu around t95.

 

[Halcyan2]

At which turns have you built cities? Usually if I go for 4 cities I cannot start working on wonders before t40 or even much later as I need to build workers, settler and some defence (usually it is possible to buy 1-2 settlers from selling luxuries, but this game, without ruins, AI seemed not to have enough cash.

I settled my fourth city around turn 90. Not exactly sure when I got my second and third cities, but I would have to guess around turns 50 and 70?

Generally speaking, I am a wonder hog so I usually spend most of the game building wonders. I very rarely hard build settlers myself and instead I prefer to rush buy settlers with gold.

 

[glory7]

1 GS and oxford to reach archaelogy t152. except for machinary (Xbows and ironworks), I beelined to arch. saved 2 policies so I could open freedom and constitution.

I decided to keep going with OCC, but did marry budapest for extra units and sci. with 4 pikes and 3 CBs I got from the marriage and units I had before (like 5 Xbows), I am ready to conquer the world. Not sure this would help culture victory a lot, but it's more fun.

Rest of the details will be on after action report later. Played up to t190 and it seems that everything is going well. Expecting sub 250.

 

[glory7]

I read other posts and i saw some Petras built pretty fast by Egypt...

Pure OCC, but at this point of the game some puppets will not accelerate the finish time at all...after archeology there is nothing left excepted Cristo but my tech rate is way too slow.

But like i said the ideal would be a 2 cities approach with Petra in 2nd city with a settled in place capital...if Egypt doesn't play the troublemakers...

Hiawatha and Byzantines are full friendly(RAed them) and Elizabeth is the big warmonger here. I deliberately slowed down Hiawatha by pushing some units near my capital to intercept (without capturing) a settler. He finally settled...20 turns later!

If you can reach radio faster, it would certainly help. I agree that you won't reach cristo (plastics, right?) in time. I am not sure that 2 cities approach would be better - we will see.

 

[Maxym]

Looks like you have been the only one to get a proper 4 city tradition start, with four wonder cities, Halcyan. I think I goofed off by trying to get my NC and Edu early, not thinking that in policy saving game opening industrial early is not as crucial as you can fill freedom quickly. This made me play it safe with wonders, not even attempting a lot of crucial ones like terra-cotta and Petra. If you have cash for culture buildings then you should have a very quick finish and high cpt.

 

[Tabarnak]

I am not sure that 2 cities approach would be better - we will see.

We need someone to try it out first!

Sub 250 is realistic with only 1 city but with a tommynt style. Good point about slowing down civs going for wonders...i guess that when you warry them they are more focused on units, especially if you can capture some of their workers too. Good luck!

 

[glory7]

We need someone to try it out first!

Sub 250 is realistic with only 1 city but with a tommynt style. Good point about slowing down civs going for wonders...i guess that when you warry them they are more focused on units, especially if you can capture some of their workers too. Good luck!

just finished the game. I believe that OCC is best in this map, as you don't have really great spots for expo and you can just marry CS later.

 

[qui16]

My first GOTM! Since I normally play on King, I'm glad to try to push it a little here.

Settled in place (I normally like beelining for Petra, but didn't want to waste turns looking for an ideal placement and then not getting it). Went AH > Pottery > Writing > Calendar; monument > scout > granary > GL (t38, Philo) > NC > worker. Probably delayed the worker too much, and didn't try to steal one (I know it's standard, but I'm always hesitant to even try it).

I found two religious CS (for 8 and 4 faith), and got the first pantheon (fertility rites). The consensus seems to be DF, but without going for Petra and delaying my worker, I wanted the growth.

Improved and sold two ivory and the cotton to buy two settlers (~t55 and t61).

The game crashed at t62, right after I settled my second city! I reloaded from a t60 autosave, and played the same (freezing out an English settler both times ).

Second city on the southern coast (by stone and fish, to get coastal and horses), third city on the northern coast, for hill/mountain/GBR). Not pushing into other civs' territory has kept me pretty friendly.

Got two workers (one of them Liz's poor settler) from a barb camp on the southern coast.

Apart from GL, I got the Oracle somewhere in the 80s, and just finished Hagia Sofia on t100. Two religions have been taken, and unfortunately cathedrals and mosques (I think) have been taken. I guess it will be pagodas for me....

Have finished Tradition and opened Patronage; will take Aesthetics and pledge to protect everyone, then save the rest for Freedom, I think.

It's t100. Now I'd better get some units going as well. They can't stay friendly forever....

 

[leif erikson]

My first GOTM! Since I normally play on King, I'm glad to try to push it a little here.

Welcome to CivFanatics and GOTM.

Best of luck in your game.

 

[pkf]

We need someone to try it out first!

Sub 250 is realistic with only 1 city but with a tommynt style. Good point about slowing down civs going for wonders...i guess that when you warry them they are more focused on units, especially if you can capture some of their workers too. Good luck!

I played 2 cities - I finished slightly later than glory, but I misplayed the last 100 turns horribly as I did not puppet anything and was slower in science than i should have been.

I had t90 education and a good start. Unfortunately, Darius managed to kill Yerevan, my ally, quite early on. I should have anticipated it and reacted accordingly.

I think 2 cities should be better here, overall. It's quite easy to get cash from AIs for all important buildings there, and the spot SW of capital is very decent with a lot of food and desert for early faith.

 

[Hardarson]

- How did the terrain affect your early decisions?
Mainly have a desert tile for Petra and a mountain for science. So I moved off the hill after using warrior to scout 2E. Landed my settler there and begun.

- What were your initial priorities?
Decided to get Monument first in order to get culture going and then the usual path of scout-granary-shrine-worker-warrior.

- What tech path did you follow and why?
Beelined writing to get the Library, then Currency for Petra.

- Were there any early wars and who started them?
Went up against Alexander, since he took a city from Hiawatha. Thought it would be a lost cause, was up against superior numbers for some time. Let him come to me and used the terrain as possible for my CB's. Took a city from him in the end and settled in to meet Carthage which was pushing in from the west. No war with them though.

Alex battled mostly against Hiawatha and England. Various others, got some invites to join several wars.

- What Social Policies did you choose and why? Did you save any policies, why?
Went liberty for settler and worker + worker speed. Then Tradition.

- How did the lack of Ancient Ruins affect your play?
Less focus on scouting and more on surveying terrain. Both for luxuries, good sites for cities and CS to ally with.

Currently I'm in a good position, with Carthage having taken nearly all of England's cities. RA's and getting some CS to friendly. Have lost the religion that I set up and currently trying to get some CS as allies. Just recently managed to eclipse AI with culture and have a good cash flow for both CS rep and to update my forces (some are really out of date). Been stealing tech from France and Carthage, while trading away lot of the excess Ivory as best as I can. Nothing stellar, but I got Petra and a few other Wonders. Mostly suffering from lack of production in 1 of my cities which I was able to fix with factories. Starting to focus on army to survive and upgrade the professional force that I have accumulated from the war with Greece.

 

[TyfoonTurk]

t181 and finally started freedom

capital east in desert next to mountain/river
one at river/citrus/ivory
one at wine/cotton

tradition/representation/r.tolerance/freedom

 

[Passionato]

Settled on place, 4-city tradition/liberty mixed opening.
beelined Mathematics to get HG. AH-Archery-Wheel-Mathematics-Pottery-Writing-Calendar-Philosophy(Oracle). Then Theology-Civil Service-Education. Got Hagia Sophia and Djenne Mosque. First for religion, second because culture CS wanted it. Then acoustics/arch/etc.
Also got Sistine too. Lost Alhambra to Egypt.