TSG72 After Action thread
- Thread starter leif erikson
- Start date
TheGrumpyBuddha
King
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2013
- Messages
- 834
Well, aren't you a party-pooper!
Re skipping archaeology, maybe I don't understand the system well enough, but isn't there a huge risk that you get a massive happiness crash if a high-tourism civ takes a different ideology, and you have 0 Tourism? (I assume that bulbing GW is correct.)
Yes, GW bulbing is correct. Your own tourism output is not relevant for determining how much their tourism affects you, but your accumulated culture instead. In most games, even on deity, when there is world fair proposed (which you should win), you will be able to keep AIs influence very low, even below Exotic.
That's not always the case. Indeed there will be happiness crashes from time to time (never on emperor and below) but usually quite delayed, as you are very often first to adopt ideology (sometimes on deity you are not). Fortunately, with your ideology you will want to pick happiness right away while growing before reaching labs and science-only mode. Usually this happiness boost is enough to keep you afloat from ideological pressure unhappiness - it calculates based on number of cities and is quite foreseeable, too. Order is exceptional at this with the monument happiness and the workshop/factory one.
That's not always the case. Indeed there will be happiness crashes from time to time (never on emperor and below) but usually quite delayed, as you are very often first to adopt ideology (sometimes on deity you are not). Fortunately, with your ideology you will want to pick happiness right away while growing before reaching labs and science-only mode. Usually this happiness boost is enough to keep you afloat from ideological pressure unhappiness - it calculates based on number of cities and is quite foreseeable, too. Order is exceptional at this with the monument happiness and the workshop/factory one.
TheGrumpyBuddha
King
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2013
- Messages
- 834
Acken
Deity
Yes it is. But like he said, if you have enough culture output you are not influenced by them. But I'll agree that some time you'll be exotic to some culture civ which can be annoying if there are a lot of those AND they decide to go another ideology.
But either way, archeology isn't the solution to that when you want a fast SV.
flipsix3
Warlord
Thanks for the detailed notes DT, decided to try and follow your steps (as close as possible) as a learning exercise. It's an exercise in massive frustration so far, for instance Desert Pantheon going on T4 in one try, missing HG by 4 turns in another, no culture ruins in a third.
Having fun trying, but I'm guessing that you're doing so very hands-on city management on a turn-by-turn basis as I'm coming up 3-4 turns short on first settler etc
I should have been more specific. Indeed your own tourism output is factored in, but since it will be very low in a science game (GWs and GAs are all bulbed) it is usually not enough to influence other civs. Hence all you really need to look out for is your culture output. You should also stop opening borders to high tourism civs unless you desperately need to pass through yourself.
As Acken said - it's merely annoying. Point being, with ideologies and other stuff there are enough possibilities to counter influence unhappiness so considering archaelogy is not worth it.
dthompson32
Warlord
Yes, I'm being very careful for the first 50 turns with city management, doing a lot of fussing. Plus I got an early population ruin which helped a lot. Having looked at the start locations for the other civs now, the only two who will compete with you for Desert Folklore and Petra are Morocco and Siam. If I hadn't gotten Desert Folklore, then the natural wonder pantheon would have been just as good, arguably better. The city next to Mt. Sinai has to grow pretty big before you get significant benefit from DF, but with the NW one you get an extra 8 fpt immediately.
won this turn 207 - gg
dont think much faster is really possible ...
also I think this proves that the liberty/trad mix strategy from my Poland guide is optimal with every civ.
sp order:
1 trad
3 Liberty --> free settler
fill trad
rati till idiology
4 Order
fill rati
cap bo: scout scout monument scout shrine worker granny caravan settlers
Cap built 4 settlers straight after free settler
HG Pyras Hagia
New cities Bo:
Monument--granny--library
With this I had to delay NC till like turn 98 or so - but who need NC with 6 nicly growing cities ....
Also didnt build NC in cap but in kilimanjaro city - why d u build NC in only city without observatory in whole empire ..
Settled only observatory spots and when shoshone stole CI I stole his cap ... another observatory spot city
went for 4 faith for nw and could therefore dominate religion - at some point 3/4 of map been busdism - late game ai Prophet spam changed things ...
really wanted petra in 3rd city so when I figured that siam didnt even have writing in turn 60 that he proly also techs towrds it and dowed him to delay it - worked out
whole game was quite a struggle for happynes - but my cities had lot of different lux, also went Pagodas 1. so it was kind of OK ...
dont think much faster is really possible ...
also I think this proves that the liberty/trad mix strategy from my Poland guide is optimal with every civ.
sp order:
1 trad
3 Liberty --> free settler
fill trad
rati till idiology
4 Order
fill rati
cap bo: scout scout monument scout shrine worker granny caravan settlers
Cap built 4 settlers straight after free settler
HG Pyras Hagia
New cities Bo:
Monument--granny--library
With this I had to delay NC till like turn 98 or so - but who need NC with 6 nicly growing cities ....
Also didnt build NC in cap but in kilimanjaro city - why d u build NC in only city without observatory in whole empire ..
Settled only observatory spots and when shoshone stole CI I stole his cap ... another observatory spot city
went for 4 faith for nw and could therefore dominate religion - at some point 3/4 of map been busdism - late game ai Prophet spam changed things ...
really wanted petra in 3rd city so when I figured that siam didnt even have writing in turn 60 that he proly also techs towrds it and dowed him to delay it - worked out
whole game was quite a struggle for happynes - but my cities had lot of different lux, also went Pagodas 1. so it was kind of OK ...
TheGrumpyBuddha
King
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2013
- Messages
- 834
Tommy -- how long did it take you to get to Rationalism? I would think that even with Pagodas and six cities, it would take awhile to get to your 9th SP.
Did you have to constrain your new cities quite a bit early (keeping them at size 3 or 4)?
Did you have to constrain your new cities quite a bit early (keeping them at size 3 or 4)?
Early on cities kinda constrain themself to grow - before all those key buildings are up and boarders expand to the 2nd and 3rd ring good tiles there just isnt too much grow.
Got Rati starter same turn when teching Astro. With Monument, Amphitheaters, Pagodas in every city and filled writers guild there floows quite some culture ..
oracle for Tradition finisher before.
Tried to have the 3 main cities (cap and the 2 nw cities) grow all game. The sea cities will grow huge after aqueduct and freight ship very fast anyway (they started with real grow in like turn 100 only)
All caravans been food ones aswell (few to do CS quests)
Got Rati starter same turn when teching Astro. With Monument, Amphitheaters, Pagodas in every city and filled writers guild there floows quite some culture ..
oracle for Tradition finisher before.
Tried to have the 3 main cities (cap and the 2 nw cities) grow all game. The sea cities will grow huge after aqueduct and freight ship very fast anyway (they started with real grow in like turn 100 only)
All caravans been food ones aswell (few to do CS quests)
BigChiefLizzy
Warlord
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1966AD
Turns played: 386
Base score: 3368
Final score: 4374
Time played: 15:35:00
An clever peaceable game like tommynt's, with only 30 turns of war and 350 turns of peaceful efficient building and teching... oh wait I got that the wrong way round
- How many free techs did you get by taking enemy cities?
About 12? starting with some classical techs (iron working), ended up getting Refrigeration, Atomic Theory, Penicillin and Computers.
- How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with?
Built 4, torched 8, puppeted 17(?)
- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? Are these element more of a factor, or less?
Founded a religion easily enough but never got the chance to spread it much. Stole a couple of techs.
- What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals?
Full tradition, then Patronage, started Rationalism, then Order, then Autocracy, then Order again
- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?
Rather badly.
- Were your UA, UU and UB helpful in achieving your goals?
UU was helpful at the start, I suppose the UA helped me catch up in tech, the UB was no use to the war effort.
- Were any AI runaway's in your game?
Any who did start to runaway tended to get backstabbed by the other AI (when they were not too busy backstabbing me!)
Put cities near kilamajaro and mount sinai (to build petra - failed), and to west on coast. Rushed Indonesia with a couple of siege towers, archers and spearmen, razed one city and captured one to east of capital but by that time they had reached the medieval era and my attack was getting bogged down. Also noticed the Shoshone massing forces near my capital so made peace. Marched back north just in time to meet Morocco & Shoshone invasion.
Rest of game spent attacking and defending against at least 2 and sometimes 4 AI at once, the siege towers ending up as rocket artillery with +1 range, +1 attacks, cover, volley (about 300-360XP?), even some bombers had 200XP+
Fun, but long game, I nearly gave up a few times.
Game date: 1966AD
Turns played: 386
Base score: 3368
Final score: 4374
Time played: 15:35:00
An clever peaceable game like tommynt's, with only 30 turns of war and 350 turns of peaceful efficient building and teching... oh wait I got that the wrong way round
- How many free techs did you get by taking enemy cities?
About 12? starting with some classical techs (iron working), ended up getting Refrigeration, Atomic Theory, Penicillin and Computers.
- How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with?
Built 4, torched 8, puppeted 17(?)
- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? Are these element more of a factor, or less?
Founded a religion easily enough but never got the chance to spread it much. Stole a couple of techs.
- What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals?
Full tradition, then Patronage, started Rationalism, then Order, then Autocracy, then Order again
- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?
Rather badly.
- Were your UA, UU and UB helpful in achieving your goals?
UU was helpful at the start, I suppose the UA helped me catch up in tech, the UB was no use to the war effort.
- Were any AI runaway's in your game?
Any who did start to runaway tended to get backstabbed by the other AI (when they were not too busy backstabbing me!)
Put cities near kilamajaro and mount sinai (to build petra - failed), and to west on coast. Rushed Indonesia with a couple of siege towers, archers and spearmen, razed one city and captured one to east of capital but by that time they had reached the medieval era and my attack was getting bogged down. Also noticed the Shoshone massing forces near my capital so made peace. Marched back north just in time to meet Morocco & Shoshone invasion.
Rest of game spent attacking and defending against at least 2 and sometimes 4 AI at once, the siege towers ending up as rocket artillery with +1 range, +1 attacks, cover, volley (about 300-360XP?), even some bombers had 200XP+
Fun, but long game, I nearly gave up a few times.
Acken
Deity
Damn impressive really
At what turn did you kill shoshone ? What turn did you annex his city ?
May try this opener. Would you still do that on a map not being good for that many cities ?
Did you steal many workers ?
Txurce
Deity
No need to ever open borders, unless you're broke - pay 2 gpt for passage.
In my experience, even if you pick the "wrong" ideology, you can usually survive the happiness struggle by using GW's on Political Treatises and reaching Ideology early enough to pick up whatever happiness tenets there are.
Okay, I will give it an extended try - several games with a variety of civs.
willardgrant
Chieftain
Game: Civ5 GOTM 72
Date submitted: 2013-11-17 03:52:54
Reference number: 30102
Your name: willardgrant
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1944AD
Turns played: 364
Base score: 1140
Final score: 1583
Time played: 4:19:00
Submitted save: Ashurbanipal_0364 AD-1944.Civ5Save
Renamed file: willardgrant_C507201.Civ5Save
Diplomacy gave victory in this one.
- How many free techs did you get by taking enemy cities? None, I didn't war at all
- How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with? 5, most of them near mountains.
- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? I just stole a few techs from Netherlands and Shoshone. Others spies used to counterintelligence and CS.
- What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals? Full tradition, then rationalism and Order.
- Were your UA, UU and UB helpful in achieving your goals? Didn't built any Siege Tower and never used special ability
- Were any AI runaway's in your game? Siam had the biggest score but never threat victory actually
- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors? All civs were friendly till the last turns, I signed many RA's with most. No wars happened until almost modern era. Then wars started and Indonesia and Portugal were soon wiped out. Shoshone had a science lead and had built a couple of SS parts more than me. I bribed Siam and later Morocco to declare on them and this slowed him decisively. Then Netherlands threat Cultural Victory, needed only one more influence so I bribed Siam to declare on them soon followed by Byzantium, they even lost their Capital. So, I launched with Shoshone needing the last part to steal victory!
Date submitted: 2013-11-17 03:52:54
Reference number: 30102
Your name: willardgrant
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1944AD
Turns played: 364
Base score: 1140
Final score: 1583
Time played: 4:19:00
Submitted save: Ashurbanipal_0364 AD-1944.Civ5Save
Renamed file: willardgrant_C507201.Civ5Save
Diplomacy gave victory in this one.
- How many free techs did you get by taking enemy cities? None, I didn't war at all
- How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with? 5, most of them near mountains.
- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? I just stole a few techs from Netherlands and Shoshone. Others spies used to counterintelligence and CS.
- What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals? Full tradition, then rationalism and Order.
- Were your UA, UU and UB helpful in achieving your goals? Didn't built any Siege Tower and never used special ability
- Were any AI runaway's in your game? Siam had the biggest score but never threat victory actually
- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors? All civs were friendly till the last turns, I signed many RA's with most. No wars happened until almost modern era. Then wars started and Indonesia and Portugal were soon wiped out. Shoshone had a science lead and had built a couple of SS parts more than me. I bribed Siam and later Morocco to declare on them and this slowed him decisively. Then Netherlands threat Cultural Victory, needed only one more influence so I bribed Siam to declare on them soon followed by Byzantium, they even lost their Capital. So, I launched with Shoshone needing the last part to steal victory!
I have two questions for tommy:
1) do you remember what turn you hit Rocketry? I'm trying to figure out how to optimise the number of turns between Rocketry and launch.
2) how did you invade Moson Khani? Amphibious invasion from the south? That sucker is dug in there like Helms Deep.
1) do you remember what turn you hit Rocketry? I'm trying to figure out how to optimise the number of turns between Rocketry and launch.
2) how did you invade Moson Khani? Amphibious invasion from the south? That sucker is dug in there like Helms Deep.
For 1)
Cant tell exactly but I allways try to start with parts right after Appolo.
Did need 9 turns for the parts (5 in different cities with 6-9 turns + up to 2t transport, 2 in Petra city)
+1 turn hubble
+7 turn (about) Appolo
207-17=1t90 should have started appolo at about this turn and think i did at about +-1 aswell
You just have to do some math at some point, count your scientists and add how many u get from faith and hubble. Multiply your bakkers by 8 and the scientist number and see how much bakkers u still need.
IF u have about 10 scientists for late bulbs things will USUALLY work out when u start appolo with 1 bulb for rocketery, starting with apolo more early as that will usually mean that u dont have the techs to do all parts right after apollo ie not worth it.
For 2) Had lot of military alies or friends and got therefore lot of trash units.
Built myself 1 ST and went with "all in" both from south sea and from north (had a own city there between shohone and maroko as u see on ss)
The cap had 1 catapult in it and did kill my own catapults both in 1 ai turn but with all these spears surounding and my ST and some pillage heal cap did fall in 3 or 4t kinda easily and the looses were kinda wellcome anyway ..
Actually the cap was in a quite easy position to take - from sea side .. and with kili movement also from north side.
