TSG72 After Action thread

not a crappy one, i had a really good start, perhaps better than yours, but it just went down the drain disappointingly.. with better culture timing (that damn pagoda and oracle - i even bribed ram to dow mary...) i felt like i was heading for even t210 maybe..

i guess we will be beaten by the likes of glory or tommy anyways

 

My first Immortal win!

Game: Civ5 GOTM 72
Date submitted: 2013-11-05 22:17:40
Reference number: 30025
Your name: shooter6947
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1927AD
Turns played: 347
Base score: 1930
Final score: 2797
Time played: 17:58:00

Went 4-city Tradition and then carefully built up for 250 turns. Then I took out some Shoshone cities on my periphery in areas that I had wanted anyway. Went Freedom, to be able to buy that one last spaceship piece with gold.

 

I saved my game around t130 thinking I had a winner going. Friendly with all except Mansur and Indonesia... but I own Jakarta and the next best Indo city. I have killed Mansurs army and am ready to slap him down. My empire goes across the whole continent North to south, and east to the crabs.

Next day, I fire up the game. I see Mansur has a whole nother army, so I give him peace rather than exhaust my forces. My tech rate is among the top, so no prob. 3 turns later, Patchacutie, Teodumdora, and William van der banana all DOW me. My forces are too far north, and rather inadequate. 3 more turns I've lost my capitol. Retire. I hate those guys.

 

@kdc_swede. I feel your pain.
On turn 145 I was quite happy, at peace with the world. Then there was turn 146...




I don't think that the tech for killing a city really works for a science game. I think it is more intended to help keep up with tech in a military game.

In my game there was such a complicated DoF web that any war was going to upset several civs. RA's become difficult to get, trades get expensive and overall not a good path to follow for a space win.

 

My first GotM! (will upload save in just a bit... for clarification, I just put the last spaceship part on, got the victory screen, then saved... do I have to pass to the next turn and then save the game for the file to be valid?) I won on turn 334, which is a new best time for me (my last two Immortal games have been culture victory in the 360s). I don't know how people are getting such good times! Anyway, here is my brief report.

Early Game and Expansion
I founded one city near the start on the hill/river tile. My second city was adjacent to Mt. Sinai (faith, mountain, some oases), and third city was a coastal city to the west to get the crabs and spice. The Shoshone forward-settled me like mad and took the upper-left of my start. I ended up in an early war against the Shoshone and took a city to my East that had gold. I had a peace treaty, then DoWed him again and took his city to my south. He gave me a peace deal with the two cities he settled to my NW while Siam took his capital and booted him from the game (I thought about taking his capital, but it was well fortified in the mountains).

So my final start was 3 main cities and the 4 puppets from the Shoshone. I went full Tradition, one point in Commerce, then full Rationalism. I got the Hanging Gardens in my capital.

UA, UU, and UB
Wow, the Siege Tower was amazing! It made my one early war a cakewalk. The UA gave me, well, one tech, all game. It's not that great once you're in the lead. The Royal Library really didn't make much of a difference in my game. I built all the exp buildings and Heroic Epic in my capital with the idea that I could build super-trained units from the capital, but I 1) never went to war after that so never needed to build more units and 2) my capital never had a break from building infrastructure/archeologists/hotels/WWs etc. I actually didn't end up building a SINGLE unit in my capital! (at the end of the game I build one for the giggles).

Ideology
I believe Indonesia got the first Ideology, which was Order. I went Freedom and got the 2 bonus policies. Everyone else went Order or Autocracy, which quickly made my happiness plummet and spawned rebels. After a few turns in the red and a mad dash to befriend city-states and buy luxes, I built back up into the positive happiness, and after recovering, I was easily at 50 happiness with no problems for the rest of the game. Freedom's spaceship finisher definitely shaved a few turns off my win.

City-States
For the most part, I ignored city states except for Budapest, who I was allies with almost all game. I think my military was mostly gifted units from Budapest that I kept upgrading all game. I befriended the rest of the adjacent city-states later in the game. There was no point in fighting the Netherlands and Siam for city states. I never got to make a world congress proposal of my own, lol.

Faith/Religion
The only faith I had was from Mt. Sinai and my temples. I was making 30 FPT the entire game, lol. I faith bought a prophet, an engineer, and a scientist, and that was about it. The Tithe belief definitely padded my bank account.

Strategy
After my early-ish war with the Shoshone, I turtled up and kept friends with everyone except Siam, who the rest of the world hated. I eventually got Porcelin Tower and finished Rationalism and started making my research agreements with everyone (maybe later than I should have). It was only around the mid-game that I started making hundreds of GPT. After my first round of RAs propelled me ahead, I rush-bought a nuclear missile in my capital and left the rest of the world afraid of me until the end. Even Siam offered to friend me, so I stayed perma-friends with everyone after that.

One mistake I think I made was waiting too long to annex my puppet cities to rush-buy science buildings and assign specialists to. I think this definitely hurt my win time. On the other hand, I had a lot of jungle tiles that helped my win time.

 

Spoiler :

This is actually the second time the world has dowed me this game. All I did was take the two cities Pocohantas forward settled on me + Morocco's capital. And the entire world hates me for the next 2000 years unrelenting...

 

Thanks! Uploaded!

Spoiler :

Game:

Civ5 GOTM 72



Date submitted:

2013-11-10 07:36:23



Reference number:

30053



Your name:

paralistalon



Game status:

Science Victory



Game date:

1914AD



Turns played:

334



Base score:

1470



Final score:

2227



Time played:

10:13:00



Submitted save:

TSG72_Start.Civ5Save



Renamed file:

paralistalon_C507201.Civ5Save

 

Fish on top of, or under, the GBF.

That shouldn't happen eh?

Its nothing to do with this GOTM but i like you guys here, thought id share

 

I'd guess you could probably hear my screams, too.

 

Game: Civ5 GOTM 72
Date submitted: 2013-11-09 14:31:26
Reference number: 30046
Your name: xenorg_vii
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1923AD
Turns played: 344
Base score: 2110
Final score: 3102
Time played: 10:13:00
Submitted save: Ashurbanipal_0344 AD-1924.Civ5Save
Renamed file: xenorg_vii_C507201.Civ5Save

- How many free techs did you get by taking enemy cities? 2
- How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with? 4 and 7
- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? Are these element more of a factor, or less? Got totally screwed on religion, losing my founded religion in all cities due to Morocco's extreme proselytizing. Spying mainly as counterintel, but did get a few techs when other civs still had them available in mid-game
- What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals? Full trad, started honor (to try something new, should probably have gone with Patronage), then rationalism and freedom.
- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors? Ok for the most part. Early DOW on the Shoshone to get the city they build close to you, but got over the diplo. hit quickly. Later got in a war with them again, as well as Indonesia and Morocco (all at once, which was hairy), but got over it without great difficulty. Some denouncements in late game, but at that point I had an unassailable tech lead.
- Were your UA, UU and UB helpful in achieving your goals? Not really. UU was fun for the first city I took, but quickly obsolete.
- Were any AI runaway's in your game? Indonesia had a clear score lead all the way to the late game when I took over.

All in all, the civ didn't provide much in the way of advantages, but the placement was actually very good (although it seemed poor at first). City to the west giving crab, to the south with the natural wonder (forget the name) and sugar, and to the east with spice and gems, plus good food bonuses gave a big and happy population. Tech lead was surprisingly easy.

 

Game: Civ5 GOTM 72
Date submitted: 2013-11-11 20:16:19
Reference number: 30060
Your name: dthompson32
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1790AD
Turns played: 268
Base score: 1292
Final score: 2437
Time played: 11:24:00

I was close to being finished last Thursday, but went away for the weekend to run a race. Pretty happy with the results, the game turned out to be a very generic science win, since I didn't use any of the Assyrian advantages. I kept pretty detailed notes which I'll add later, once I can edit them down to something less voluminous.

The key was a strong opening that kept me ahead of the other civs in most respects, after that I just cruised out to tech lead, and tried to time everything properly. I'm sure some of our better players could have taken my completion of Petra on turn 79 and turned it into a win much closer to turn 200.

- How many free techs did you get by taking enemy cities?

None, I never went to war throughout the entire game.

- How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with?

I built 4 and ended with 4.

- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? Are these element more of a factor, or less?

Spies didn't have much effect, however religion was critical. I used Papal Primacy and Consulates to get about 10 of the CSes as permanent friends. Holy Order let me churn out Missionaries to get almost every CS converted to my religion. I had Petra and Desert Folklore in my second city next to Mt. Sinai for a strong faith base. I bought 2 GS, a GP, and a GE with faith. The GE was used to finish my last SS part.

- What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals?

I went full tradition, then Consulates to open up opportunity to build Forbidden Palace (really needed it) and to keep a lot of CSes and friends when combined with Papal Primacy. After that it was most of the Rationalism tree. Took Order first, then the factory bonus. Finished Rationalism, then went to Spaceflight Pioneers. Ended up with 2 more policies that I put into Patronage.

- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?

I made friends with everyone, signed 16 RAs, retained DOFs with everyone until a few turns from the end when the Dutch denounced me.

- Were your UA, UU and UB helpful in achieving your goals?

No, I had no need for any of them.

- Were any AI runaway's in your game?

No. Siam started to get there, but I bribed Indonesia to go to war with him, and neither of them were threats again. I was the runaway.

Edit - Here are detailed notes from my game. As always criticisms and suggestions are very welcome.

Cities:
C1 next to starting location 1 tile west of salt
C2 one tile east of Mt Sinai, next to lake
C3 one tile NE of Mt Kili, next to river
C4 one tile west of mountain on coast, next to fish

Tech Order (yr complete) - Pottery (10), Archery (10 ruin), Mining (17), Writing (25), beeline Math (46), Currency (57), BW (60), beeline Philosophy (72), beeline Theology (86), beeline Education (104), Sailing (105), Masonry (106), Construction (107), beeline Astronomy (125), Guilds (131), beeline Banking (139), beeline Architecture (150), beeline Printing Press (157), beeline Scientific Theory (169), Industrialization (172), beeline Plastics (200 - used Oxford last tech), Flight (so I could take Electronics with free Rationalism tech), turn 220 I used all my GS to get Rocketry then up the top part of the tree to Penicillin, after that I kept switching around to keep from taking Satellites (and triggering the UN) until Apollo was done, final order was Satellites, then up to Robotics, then Advanced Ballistics, Nanotech, finally up to Particle Physics.

Policy Order - standard Tradition start, Patronage open (with Oracle), Consulates, Rationalism, Secularism, Humanism, Free Thought, Order (Hero of the People, Young Pioneers), Worker’s Facilities, Sovereignty, Scientific Revolution and Social Realism (same turn), 5 Year Plan, Spaceflight Pioneers, Philanthropy, Scholasticism

Build Order
C1 - Scout, Worker, Settler, Granary, Library (bought), Caravan, Worker, Hanging Gardens, Water Mill, Market, NC, Oracle, Hagia Sophia, Settler (bought), Borobudor, University, Colosseum, National Epic, Writer’s Guild, Caravansary, Caravan (x2), Workshop, Shrine, Forbidden Palace, Artist Guild, PT, Constabulary, Public School (bought), Factory, Stock Exchange, Ironworks, Grand Temple, Research Lab, Hydro Plant, Amphitheater, Apollo, Hubble, Spacecraft parts
C2 - Library, start Granary, Petra, Archer, finish Granary, Market, Garden, Worker, Caravan, Colosseum, University, Worker, Observatory, Workshop, Caravan, Sistine Chapel, Taj, Factory, Public Schools, Shrine, Temple, Amphitheater, Opera House, Research Lab, Stone Works, Cristo (this never got completed), Booster
C3 - Granary, Library (bought), Water Mill, Garden, University, Market, Observatory (bought), Workshop, Colosseum, Shrine, Temple, Oxford (until 1 turn from completion), Worker, Circus Maximus, Factory, Public School (bought), Amphitheater, Opera House, Research Lab, Broadway (this will get started and stopped for awhile), Booster
C4 - Granary, Workboat, Workboat, Library (bought), University, Observatory (bought), Workshop, Lighthouse, Workboat (bought), Stone Works, Colosseum, Stable, Public School, Factory, Shrine, Temple, Amphitheater, Opera House, Research Lab, Cargo Ships, Hospital, Medical Lab

0 - C1 next to salt
5 - Worker
6 - Culture ruin
7 - Open Tradition
10 - Archery from ruin, start Mining, pop ruin
16 - Culture ruin
17 - Settler
18 - Pop ruin
21 - Landed elite
25 - Writing done, beeline to Math and Currency
27 - Settler done, start Granary, buy Library
31 - C2 next to Sinai, start Library there
34 - Pantheon, take Desert Folklore, Granary done start Caravan in C1
38 - Monarchy
40 - C1 Worker, food caravan to C2
43 - Stole worker from Budapest
46 - Start HG
52 - C2 Library done start Granary
57 - Currency done, switch C2 to Petra, start BW
58 - Buy settler
60 - Start Calendar
61 - Aristocracy
63 - C1 HG done start Water Mill
64 - C3 founded next to Mt Kili, start Granary, buy Library
72 - Philo and Market done, start D+P then Theo and NC
79 - Petra done, C2 Archer to deal with a barb
80 - NC done start Oracle, send food caravan to C3
85 - Oligarchy, religion founded taking Papal Primacy and Swords to Plowshares. Plan is to get Consulates and keep friends, since I have 6 CSes near me.
86 - Theology finishes, beeline to Education
88 - Oracle finishes, open Patronage with free SP, start Hagia Sophia in C1
89 - Buy Settler
94 - C4 founded next to mountain and sea resources to NW, start Granary, send food caravan to it
98 - Hagia Sophia finished, start Borobodur, enhance religion with Religious Community and Holy Order to convert CSes
104 - Education done, pick up Sailing then Masonry
106 - Construction (happiness is so hard to keep up)
107 - Beeline to Astronomy for Observatories
109 - Consulates
116 - C1 National Epic
121 - GS born in C1, planting it
125 - Astro done, start Guilds for trading posts, start Observatory in C2
137 - Open Rationalism
139 - Banking done, start F Palace in C1, all science building done 233 bpt, beeline Architecture, stopping growth in C1 until I get more happiness
144 - Siam enters Ren era, sending production caravans to C1 to be safe, C2 Sistine Chapel
150 - Architecture finishes, beeline to Printing Press, use a GW to get a policy, took Secularism
151 - Forbidden Palace finished (huge sigh of relief)
154 - WC convenes (Morocco hosts), propose Natural Heritage Sites, Artist Guild done, start PT
155 - C3 Oxford (nothing great to build right now, so prime this for 1 turn completion)
157 - C4 start Stone Works, beeline Scientific Theory
158 - RA with Poca, start saving to buy Public School
164 - Used GW for another policy, took Humanism
165 - GA in C1, extend current golden age
166 - PT finished, start Constabulary in C1 (spies aren't being caught)
169 - Scientific Theory, start Industrialization, buy Public School in C1
172 - Start the beeline to Plastics
173 - C1 starts Factory
174 - C3 starts Factory
175 - Taj finishes, C2 starts Factory - Sizes 17, 13, 15, 9 - 355 bpt, 87 gpt, 86 cpt, 48 fpt, 26 happiness
177 - Buy Public School in C3
179 - Bribe Indonesia to go to war with Siam, Free Thought - 449 bpt
180 - C4 finishes Public School, start Factory
183 - Factory in C1 done, start Stock Exchange
184 - Artist spawns, add to running golden age, RA with William done giving Radio and Steel, sending into Modern Age, choose Order, Hero of the People, and Young Pioneers
185 - I’m now WC host, buy culture CSes as allies - Sizes 19, 14, 15, 10 - 481 bpt, 65 gpt, 112 cpt, 37 fpt, 22 happiness
186 - WC vote, no way I will get my Natural Sites, I don't have the votes, trying to stop the jewelry ban instead
187 - Both proposal failed, proposing World's Fair
189 - Take Workers' Facilities, 553 bpt
198 - Golden age finally ends
199 - Replaceable parts in 1 turn, switch C3 to Oxford to get Plastics
200 - Plastics, switching all production to Research Labs
204 - Sovereignty, need to plan for free tech in 20ish turns, switch to flight so Electronics will be available
210 - Flight done beeline Railroad
211 - C4 finishes Lab, science turned up to full, 948 bpt
213 - WC vote, cultural sites and world's fair both pass, 166 cpt now
214 - All cities contributing to World's Fair
219 - World's fair complete, I win, take Scientific Revolution since several RAs coming up, take electronics with free tech, also culture hit and with SP take Social realism for more happiness, buy 2 GSs
221 - Using GSs got to Rocketry and 1 turn from Penicillin, switch C1 to Apollo
222 - Used one more GS, beeline to Ecology, don't want to hit info age and trigger United Nations yet
223 - 8 turns from Apollo: Size 22, 17, 18, 14 - 934 bpt, 64 gpt, 294 cpt, 56 fpt, 40 happiness, 12 techs left, 5 RAs still active
224 - Use a GW for another SP, Ecology finished, start Nuclear Fission (still avoiding Info era until Apollo is done), switch C2 to Solar Plant, C4 start Hospital
225 - Take 5 Year Plan for production boost, C3 switch back to Broadway
226 - Siam RA finishes, start Combustion, 4 turns from Apollo, 4 turns from Spaceflight Pioneers
228 - Enough faith for a Prophet to get CSes back into the fold
230 - Apollo finishes, change research to Satellites and pop it with the GS from Spaceflight Pioneers, start Hubble in C1, use a GE (being saved) to get Hubble 2 turns from completion, C2 forget about Cristo (don't need more policies) start SS Cockpit using GE to get 6 from completion, C3 start Hospital, start beeline to Robotics
231 - C4 start Medical Lab
232 - Hubble finished, use GS to get Advanced Ballistics so C1 can build parts, start SS booster
233 - C3 start SS Booster
236 - Cockpit done, C2 starts SS Booster
239 - Philanthropy, C4 research until the uranium mine is done
240 - C4 Nuke Plant
241 - C1 start Nuke Plant, buy up CS allies for next turn vote
245 - Switch C2 to Spaceship Factory, C1 start Hospital, start Nanotechnology
246 - C3 Research
247 - C4 Research
248 - C1 Research
249 - Buy GE with faith, RAs finish next turn
250 - Switch back to SS booster in C2
251 - Last RAs hit, Nanotech done, start Stasis Chamber in C1, use GS that spawned
253 - World Leader vote, I probably could have won it, used my 34 votes for me, switch C2, C3, and C4 to XCOM squad to keep other civs honest
256 - C2 Research
258 - C3 and C4 Research
259 - Stasis Chamber done, C1 to Research until last part is available
260 - GS spawns in C4, use it to get 6 turns from last tech
261 - Scholasticism, buy up Allies with cash: Stats: Cities 24, 18, 20, 19 - 1323 bpt, 98 gpt, 160 cpt, 79 fpt, 40 happiness, 4 turns to last tech
265 - Particle Physics done, start SS Engine in C1, use GE bought with faith to hurry it, switch all other cities to wealth production (243 gpt)
268 - Launch Spaceship

 

Code:

Your name:	Blicero
Game status:	Science Victory
Game date:	1955AD
Turns played:	375
Base score:	1211
Final score:	1614
Time played:	11:07:00

Finally managed to get this one done. I have to say it wasn't all that enjoyable. I started out the game taking two forward settled cities for Pocatello. Then I admit I was a little aggressive and took Marrakech, and also Fes (which I donated to someone else). And that was it. Was that enough to merit 2500 years of hate? I spent the entire game at war, but not conquering. The Thais took Moson Khani and eliminated the Shoshone. I liberated MK and Pocatello loved me for exactly 10 turns when he immediately dowed me again (!).

I don't know. It seems the warmongering penalties are way too stiff. It's one thing incite hate while you're warmongering, but to keep on hating 3 technological eras later?

There were four instances of world wars:

WWI: T117
WWII: T181
WWIII: T220
WWIV: T264

I won them all.

Spoiler :

 

Wow, that is a well used Bazooka there.

 

I missed that the VC was Science. I was ahead on Science by turn 180'ish, and five or six techs ahead by turn 220 -- things were going so smoothly I figured I'd knock out the Conquest as an Order civ achievement. Oops.

Got bottlenecked after a quick wipe-out of Indonesia going after Siam, but after piling up Stealth Bombers and VCOM it probably took 40 turns to wipe everyone else out (turn 372).

I had 500 science by turn 204, and played it a little subpar--can't imagine not finishing the spaceship build by turn 280. Ah well.

Notes:

1) Where there's one salt there are more, so I didn't just settle the closest hill. I wandered a bit and settled two hills north, next to the desert. Ended up with 4 salt within 3 spaces, so, yes, I decided to have some fun and beeline Petra instead of NC.
2) I got Petra but wasted 10 turns after it going for HG and Oracle. Ah well.
3) 3 Cities for most of the game--one down by the natural wonder mountain that gives you aerial training, one to the left next to the mountain by the crab.
4) Shoshone advance-settled on me quite early but I got some caravans going to them, seemed to chill them out.
5) It helped that I built 4 or 5 archers thinking I'd go for the CB rush supplemented by the Siege Towers. Then I got distracted by Petra and then NC and then Universities and then ... yeah. That's how ALL my games go. Point is I had enough military that nobody wanted to make a move.

Overall a really easy game, as is any game where you start with 4 salt nearby plus two good other places to settle that are next to mountains.

Final note: I can't resist digging up a few works and GE bulbing the Eiffel Tower. I have a hunch that the *good* players resist that urge, or never have it to begin with ...

 

He saw a fair amount of action. He just sat in that citadel down south mowing down wave after wave of Dutch / Byzantine / Indonesian cannon fodder for centuries. He had a buddy but I lost him in some careless move. Basically your sons are dead because they were stupid sort of thing.

What I would be interested to discuss is people's build / bulb / tech strategy to complete the spaceship in the quickest time. What I did here is what I usually do, but can't help but notice the significant change to the spaceship building time with the latest patch. For the most part your capital is by far the most efficient SS part builder (assuming you get the HST in there).

What I did was research Rocketry and bulb Satellites, and immediately GE rush the HST in my capital and start building the AP in my second production city. Then it's a question of which tech path to take, high or low. Normally I go high to be able to start to build the boosters, then switch to low to get the SS factory tech. I always, as in this game, get the sequence and timing off, and end up with an extra scientist and having researched techs faster than I can build SS parts. I guess one lesson learned is that I should not hold on to so many scientists, maybe use one much earlier in the game. I think in this game I had 8-9 scientists on reserve as I headed into Rocketry (including the two from HST and also popping one at the very end).

I think the ideal result would be to research the last tech needed for SS parts pretty much on the same turn where production in your capital is freed up to immediately start building that last part.

Would be highly interested to read others' systems.

 

How did you handle happiness with 6 cities -- allied with Genoa and Riga the whole time? I had happiness issues with just 3 cities, even while allied to one of them.

My usual path is -->Scientific Theory, a break for Fertilizer and Archaeology, and then go to Plastics, which means it's usually more than 25 turns between ST and P. At what point do you make the Fertilizer run?

 

I will exchange lux for lux when i need to or litterally buy some of them. I prefer to stay happy and grow instead of getting a 240 gold. Allying early cs is a must too.

 

I do this as well and still have problems -- sometimes there are no luxuries for sale at regular price. Maybe it is all about mercantile w/luxes you don't have.

Re my other question -- when you generally duck down for Fertilizer ...? My game is good enough that I can win on Deity if I put my brain into it, but have never gotten above 600bpt by turn 200, and even then I'm usually a little ways from Plastics. So looking for pointers.