TSG74 After Actions thread

[Tabarnak]

Pretty impressive run tommy! At least i can argue that i still have the 2nd best time ever I strugled with my religion.

I did use the World Fair and get 100% bonus. But that's because i had nothing else to do. With 30 turns faster i don't see how tommy can use it maybe excepted for only a free policy which is way less hammer costly.

 

[pkf]

pp t139, delayed it till after banking, that was a mistake, but also i dont really know diplo yet. entered info t195 with 3 GS to spare, next vote was t199. new diplo is much more interesting than old science race imo, looking forward to the next one.

great time tommy! so i guess glorys suggestion of delaying PP was the fastest way of winning diplo after all

oh and damn you tabarnak

 

[tommynt]

delaying PP was the fastest way of winning diplo after all

yeah but only possible on lower difficulty and with really good science.

Guess jumping to 1500+ bakkers in turn 160-165 isnt possible for every1

 

[kb27787]

Good god, I sucked
had some sucky luck with coups as well... had 3 level 3 spies die on me on 80% coups

nonetheless...
might as well have some fun on emperor...
opening game: (settled on t5 or so... I just didn't like the fact that all my luxes are on marshes... tricky opening tech... so I might as well wonderwhore if fast expansion is hard) in hindsight ToA would have been better than HG... completely misplayed that one...

Spoiler :

Actually I was quite happy with my position here... but...

Spoiler :

Pretty sure I didn't sign but a single RA all game (heard bad things about how it's not worth the money on lower difficulties and wanted to save gold for CS but that turned out to be a bad choice)

Spoiler :

Victory... (really late but still on the first world leader vote... next time I know I have to shoot for entering Info era myself as early as possible because half the world is definitely not going to enter atomic any time soon... turns out treaty organization was so good I didn't really need to save all that gold) I really overkilled on buying the votes from other civs (just my diplomats + CS was enough but bought them anyway in case of a last minute coup)

Whaddya know it's my first DV in BNW
-How did you weave your choices from huts into your strategy?
+20 culture, CB upgrade, free tech, pantheon, population, 2nd CB... in that order

- How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with?
4, 4, did not have a single DoW except on a CS early game for a worker

- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? Are these element more of a factor, or less?
Just got Hagia but didn't spread it to other civs... planted prophets... actually finished Pisa and chose prophet to plant another one for faith. Divine inspiration and Swords to Plowshares with tithe. Pantheon was monument to the gods since god-king was taken. I stole ONE grand tech from the bottom of the tree (steel) from Egypt all game I had everyone eclipsed in research by the time spies came out.

- What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals?
Filled Tradition, Patronage, Rat and then Freedom.

- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?
I managed an early camp for a military CS + 2CB = no DOW all game. Lizzy hated my guts but never did anything aside from non-stop spying.

- Were your UA and UU helpful in achieving your goals?
UA helps in the very beginning as it allows you to settle certain positions not possible for other civs... UU is OK but I still wish they had it replace the warrior instead of the scout. Comanche riders is useless.

- Were any AI runaway's in your game?
Nope, I was by far the clear runaway from medieval onwards. I'm pretty sure everyone's spy paid my capitol a visit... only caught them 3 times and they stole maybe a combined 20 times? lol... my luck sucked.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 74
Date submitted: 2013-12-10 02:27:13
Reference number: 30222
Your name: kb27787
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1830AD
Turns played: 286
Base score: 1428
Final score: 2505
Time played: 1:58:00
Submitted save: Pocatello_0286 AD-1832.Civ5Save
Renamed file: kb27787_C507401.Civ5Save

But hey, I'm pretty sure I'm the fastest in realtime just under 2 hrs played.

 

[Tabarnak]

Time played: 1:58:00

But hey, I'm pretty sure I'm the fastest in realtime just under 2 hrs played.

That's some really fast time!

Do you have a god computer or what?

 

[ABigCivFan]

A few questions for the pros:

1. Do you generally skip the Great Library and aggressively build settlers instead even on lower difficulties?

2. When you set up 4-5 cities under turn 60, do you steal most of the workers from a single AI or CS? That seems to be the only way. I found that pillaging Lux or horse/withdraw is very effective in steal more AI workers.

Thanks.

 

[kb27787]

That's some really fast time!

Do you have a god computer or what?

it's actually a laptop (a rather new one only half a year old but the specs are pretty decent)
the thing is I have no micro whatsoever I don't know about food basket spillovers or anything, and I have quick combat and movement on. I'd just check when a wonder has 2 turns left whether or not I have enough hammers to do it one turn faster (this screws the AI hoping to steal it rather often).

I don't farm barbs either... I just go ahead and clean out the camp to get the quest over with (I still have the mental trauma of an AI ranged unit coming from nowhere on an unseen hill finishing off the barb inside the camp and suddenly the CS swoops in and steals the camp)

What's this thing I hear about delaying printing press? (so you know how the voting cycles work? what would be the best time to get it then?) I just found it when I entered Renaissance so I could get some proposals rolling ASAP

 

[ObadiahtheSlim]

- How did you weave your choices from huts into your strategy?
Early tradition unlock and getting an early religion. I honestly didn't expect that last goody hut.
- How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with?
Built 4 and ended with 4.
- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? Are these element more of a factor, or less?
Tithe for the money making and then Sun God and Feed the World for growth. Pagoda was nice for some mid game happiness. Finally, converting England and Poland to my religion made the World Religion vote easy. That was like nearly 40 votes right there for it
I used spies for some influence with a few CSs early on. I think I had like 3 coups. Then I used them for the final votes to win. My defensive capitol spy had mixed results.
- What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals?
Full Tradition and then 3 points into Patronage. I wasn't paying attention and accidently bulbed a GW while still medieval. Opend commerce with him. Then went full Rationalism and went Freedom. Better specialists is always nice. Treaty Organization flipped the last few CSs. Not that I needed it with 300+ GPT at the end.
- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?
Well. Bribed Poland into attacking England to keep him from attacking me.
- Were your UA and UU helpful in achieving your goals?
The extra territory was very nice for making sure I got all the salt and the deer. Picking my goody hut was very nice. Always annoying when you get nothing but barb camp locations and maps.
- Were any AI runaway's in your game?
Nope.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 74
Date submitted: 2013-12-10 16:40:59
Reference number: 30227
Your name: ObadiahtheSlim
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1828AD
Turns played: 285
Base score: 1354
Final score: 2417
Time played: 2:29:00

Spoiler End Map :

 

[tommynt]

A few questions for the pros:

1. Do you generally skip the Great Library and aggressively build settlers instead even on lower difficulties?

2. When you set up 4-5 cities under turn 60, do you steal most of the workers from a single AI or CS? That seems to be the only way. I found that pillaging Lux or horse/withdraw is very effective in steal more AI workers.

Thanks.

1. Ya u need get these cities up asap - I usually dont hardbuild more as 1 settler from cap - try to buy others with tribute demande and/or lux deal money.

Then go for NC with 2-4 cities and by rdy to plant 1-4 cities right after NC before turn 80-90.
I usually go 4+2 - in this only 4+1 as with so many observatory spots 5 cities are enough.
Can do also 3+1 and capture 2-3 capitals or so - 5-8 cities are usually optimal ..

2. I stole a worker and a settler from Poland in a quick strike
And stole 3 or 4 workers from a CS (Manila or so, staying in war till turn 70 and waited for new build workers), apart that I played a fully peaceful game to keep the +15% growth all game.

PP timing - I wrote some longer post there:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=516136

basicly u need try to get into info era in less then 35,65,95 turns after 1. WC started (usually with printing press)

 

[Shaleghi]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 74
Date submitted: 2013-12-11 20:25:22
Reference number: 30234
Your name: Shaleghi
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1921AD
Turns played: 342
Base score: 1549
Final score: 2277
Time played: 7:31:00

- How did you weave your choices from huts into your strategy?
Mostly Tech and Unit upgrade. But i see now that culutre is better on the first one.

- How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with?
5 and ended with 6... I went for more lux but i think in the end less cities would of been better for science


- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW?
I did not manage to get a religion but took over Polands religion. Got 2 delegates from that. First spy was stealing from Egypt. Second in my capital. the rest was diplomants.

- What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals?
Full tradition and then full patronage then Order,,, only later took Rationalism.

- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?
Poland was my good friend all the game through. India, Iroquoi, Portugal where good friends till world ideology then all my friends became enemies and enemies became friends. In the end they where fighting each other.

- Were your UA and UU helpful in achieving your goals?
Yes i like this civ a lot though never used Comanche Rider .


- Were any AI runaway's in your game?
Egypte looked like it might with all the early wonders build by them. But once i pass him in tech i took a few wonders. Egypte also took Autocracy but i think if they when for a science or culture victory they might be more threatening.

Nice to see what Tommynt took as culture

"sp till reaching special vote:
Full tradition.
1 in patronage (only one i would never have thought that)
1 in eco
4 rati (i also whent very late for rati,,, thats why my turns is so many)
2 more eco (reduced building cost) (I took this last but wish i had earlier)
3 idiologies (order - cheaper buildings and science facotries)
finish rati"

 

[Memoryjar]

1. Ya u need get these cities up asap - I usually dont hardbuild more as 1 settler from cap - try to buy others with tribute demande and/or lux deal money.

I watched your GOTM 71 with Venice. Thanks a lot for your videos, hoping you'll continue to do that.

In my regular games, in Immortal, I can't ask tribute. I tried with triremes, like you did, but overall score for asking tribute show 0 for army near the CS. Alike my units near to 3 or 4 hexs the city. Is this tips (tribute with army) useful on low level ? Or do I miss something ?

 

[tommynt]

demanding tribute got "nerfed" - ie u need more units close to CS now. Usually 2 wont cut it but u need 3+.

And u still ned be n1 in army - thats pretty unlickly on immortal and deity.

 

[Memoryjar]

I hoped you didn't answer that.

Early warfare seems to be dangerous on Immortal with close neighboor, unlike in Emperor. Negotiate peace is impossible unless you waste its army. If I want a free worker, I have to grab it from CS or farther neighboor.

Another question : I looked you always open with Monument even if you go for Legalism. Is it a basic opening ? I tried it and it's give me early culture and tiles.

 

[Arnold_T]

I still don't really understand how the Diplo win works, but I kinda rushed to Printing Press based on what others have been saying. seems like I should have rushed even more though since I had excess Great Scientists at the end. I used Oxford to get Labs, and didn't use any GSs before then. I guess using Oxford earlier and burning some GSs earlier to get to Astro and PP would be what I would try next time.

Hut choices were something like Culture, Pop, Upgrade, Pop, Gold. I tried to get another upgrade, but Indian beat me to the last hut I could find.

I had five cities, then NC. also wanted to settle a sixth city next to Mt. Sinai but India bet me to it.
I settled the Northen Faith mountain (whose name I forget), but forgot to settle right next to it (to get the Observatory), and kicked myself later for that. other expos settled next to mountains though. I guess I should have also settled the capital next to the mountain too for the Observatory, but it just didn't look that promising with all those mountain hexes, so I ended up on the riverside hill which expanded very early to also include the gold lux four hexes away.

I think this is the first game of BNW I've played totally peaceful. I kept waiting for Poland to declare on me, but he never got up the nerve. Too bad, I was really hoping he would!

fun game, thanks Leif!

 

[TyfoonTurk]

t112 edu
t126 astro
t139 ratio
t148 pp
t169 sci-th
t176 radio
t203 plastics (GS)
t249 victory

settled next to mountain and river (can't really understand why people pass up on observatory for a couple of extra tiles), also settled the 3 other cities next to mountain and river

4 cities, liberty/tradition mix, no religion, no wonders

 

[marekb]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 74
Date submitted: 2013-12-20 17:42:22
Your name: marekb
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1770AD
Turns played: 265
Base score: 1418
Final score: 2726
Time played: 6:12:00

First 120 turn.

I had to low science to enter Information Era before first WC. I delayed PP researching Banking and Architecture fist, but I could research PP earlier and get earlier finish. I bought GE with faith as I research earlier all important techs for this victory and used GE to build wonders that CS wanted.

How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with?
I built 4 cities and finished with one more (York) a gift of Elisabeth for peace.

How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? Are these element more of a factor, or less?
Religion gave me some gold, not too much as other civs was sending GP and Missionaries like crazy. Anyway, it helped me when my income was low. I planted spies in CS until before last WC, when I put them as diplomat to secure my win (any way finally I had 49 votes).

What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals?
First tradition for fast growth, later Patronage to Consulates to help with CS, Rationalism (Secularism, right tree and rest), Commerce till cheaper purchasing.
I choose order for 25% science and production boost.

How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?
Quite well. I was friend with almost everyone but England. Elisabeth was stubborn and tried to get my land. Finally she gave me York

Were your UA and UU helpful in achieving your goals?
The UA and UU are universal and was helpful.

Were any AI runaway's in your game?
Not really. Hiawatha, Ramesses and Casimir was fighting each other and I was a runway

Spoiler :

T121 - Goshute founded
T125 - Acoustic
T130 - Borobudur
T168 - Forbidden Palace
T180 - PT (GE)
T183 - Scientific Theory
T192 - Radio
T193 - Order
T194 - England DoW
T201 - Peace
T215 - Eiffel
T223 - PT
T229 - England DoW
T230 - Plastics
T238 - Big Ben
T240 - Peace (York)
T241 - start burning GS
T249 - Telecommunications
T250 - Globalisation
T251 - Broadway
T259 - CN Tower (GE)
T260 - Cristo (GE)

 

[Maxym]

I settled by the mountain and went one city NC and GL, t100 Education. Me personal best for BNW I think, then thought really hard if I should just knock out 5-6 observatory cities and coast to globalization DV or stomp my neighbours and just get to penicillin.

Obviously the map was tailor made for peaceful DV with tons of observatory spots, but I wanted to have some fun and decided to play "diplomatically" and eliminated four closest AI starting with Poland. But not fast enough and WC clock reset again and I had to wait 20 more turns. Then I decided to take over Egypt just to have something to do, leaving them with one city on the turn before the vote (42). I allied CS with trade routes and unneeded unit gifts through freedom tenets and it worked very well. Needed just 1-2k in total to pick up few stragglers I could not send routes to.

Got religion without trying as is standard with Shoshone UA, extra land helped with happy, but I settled only 2 more cities. Had 3-4 SP too many in the end after winning WF. Somehow got the Shafernator achievement, maybe coz CS gave me a marine? Not sure, I must have built / was gifted one before ? Can't think of any other reason.

Looking forward to the deity game.... Too bad Brazil is prince as SS will be the default, immortal continents would have been fun as both strats could be tried then.

 

[Maverick_VII]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 74
Date submitted: 2014-01-01 04:53:43
Reference number: 30365
Your name: Maverick_VII
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1866AD
Turns played: 304
Base score: 1839
Final score: 3065
Time played: 10:15:00
Submitted save: Pocatello_0304 AD-1868.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Maverick_VII_C507401.Civ5Save

- How did you weave your choices from huts into your strategy?
Got two CBs, which were useful for early barb quests, other than that not much.
- How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with?
Build 5, got kept 2 more puppets from Poland and England. Build cities where everyone else seemed to, but the third one I got by the salt close to Warsaw. Was expecting that to lead to war, but never did.
- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? Are these element more of a factor, or less?
Spying was actually quite useful in turning CSs. I also tried Covert Action under freedom ideology, which made it more useful. I consistently under-utilize religion, but not really sure what I should have gone for here. Got a religion dead last (but still had tithe to choose!), so never really made a huge impact. Still became World Religion with my votes tho
- What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals?
Full trad, halfway down Patronage (only first three seem worth taking), then rationalism and a bit of commerce. Went with Freedom once I got my three factories.
- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?
Pretty unproblematic. DOFed India, Hiawatha and US pretty soon after meeting and stayed that way. England and Poland were less happy with me (blocking off their expansions), but no hostilities happened until I provoked them for fun upon getting artillery (had a huge tech lead by that point, so could diversify)
- Were your UA and UU helpful in achieving your goals?
I guess the quick border expansion helped me seal England and Poland in in their corners.
- Were any AI runaway's in your game?
Nope. I met Egypt late, when he had a significantly higher score than me, but was never a real challenge.

All in all happy with the game. I still find DV quite boring/anti-climactic, but I essentially played much as I would for science: peace, gold and tech above all (I did come to the realization that tech isn't all that important here though, besides being necessary for staying alive/happy/rich )Thanks to the mods and Happy New Year!

 

[s8g]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 74
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1888AD
Turns played: 315
Base score: 1607
Final score: 2591
Time played: 5:53:00

- How did you weave your choices from huts into your strategy?

I chose two CBs, one or two pop, a tech and some faith. I wanted the faith for an early pantheon. The population fitted into my tall-strategy, but aside from that there were no synergies.

- How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with?

I built four citites and ended with four.

- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? Are these element more of a factor, or less?

I founded a religion, mainly for the growth and the ability to get a world religion for two additional votes. The spies I used mainly as diplomats.

- What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals?

1. I went full tradition for my normal tall approach.
2. In between, I mixed some piety for the religion, later I finished it.
3. I also opened Patronage for building the the Forbidden Palace, but I got beat by Egypt. I finished Patronage towards the end of the game.
4. In Rationalism I chose the first three policies to maximize my bpt.
5. For ideology I went with Freedom for the specialist abilities and the bonus to Great People

Looking back, I would've made different choices for more science....

- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?

Good, I didn't had a single DoW on me for the entire game. I think, I was close to a war with Poland. They chose Autocracy and had already conquered a city from Hiawatha and Elisabeth. But somehow I was able to distract them enough with units and the right DoFs.

- Were your UA and UU helpful in achieving your goals?

The UA was helpful in getting all the nice land early and the Pathfinder helped finding good city spots and also the hut ability allows for some strategy in that regard. But I didn't built the other UU - there was just no need for cavalry.

- Were any AI runaway's in your game?

Casimir was quite aggressive and successful. But regarding the score, he wasn't a runaway neither.

Thanks for that great map, GOTM team! Although when I look at the other turn times, it seems I still have much to learn...