Tupac08 - Simply Sid

[Daeron]

It's easy for me to start optimizing our territory, but beyond that I'm not sure what our goals should be.

Maybe just create a good border around Chinan and fish for leaders for a while. Ideally we want to start a second war with the Mongols as soon as they make peace with China.

 

[del62]

If we did get a leader we could use it for forbidden palace, we dont really want peace between mongols and chinese, if they keep fighting we could oscillate between them. I looked at tech research rates and their not great yet, we need some irrigation round in corrupt cities, aqua to help unit support. We could get another town near Chinan, though replace Chinan first, we could even make a push against Korea when peace runs out.

 

[tupaclives]

Ideally, as you say, the 2 would keep fighting and we could just keep taking chunks, a little at a time, from each of them. The problem I guess would come if and when one of them breaks the other.

I think continuing a process of oscillating war sounds like a good idea, and not just because it means I'd get some war turns on my next set

 

[Daeron]

Apologies for the delay. I'll have my turns complete tomorrow.

 

[del62]

Thats OK, best to take your time, than rush.

 

[del62]

I think continuing a process of oscillating war sounds like a good idea

It is a good way of handling war weariness

 

[Daeron]

I've started, hoping to finish later tonight. It starts off pretty bad. China made peace with the Mongols the very moment I hit enter, and killed 2 knights with riders.

Which means we're in an awkward situation. We have 14 turns left in our peace treaty with the Mongols.

I'm taking a short break since I was going to watch a movie with roommates. But when I continue, I'd like to buy an MA with the Mongols against the Chinese for our ivory and 9 gpt. As Tupaclives stated, we should keep these two at war at all time. 14 turns of peace for the Mongols would be devastating to us at this point.

I checked if we could buy Chemistry as part of the MA, but apparently it is still highly valued, not even for 112 gpt + incense.

 

[CKS]

Allying with the Mongols against the Chinese seems like a reasonable thing to do. The Mongols will stay at war, the Chinese will be unable to really attack us, and we don't really want to attack the Mongols until our peace deal runs out anyway.

I agree with del62 about moving against Korea when the opportunity presents itself. We need more land and they are pretty weak. We just need to be careful to limit our exposure to China and the Mongols in the process.

 

[del62]

As the Chinese will still be a few turns from talking this may be the best, it is frustrating that they have riders and the mongols have made peace, it may be a good idea to send our knight army to pillage their capitol though

 

[Daeron]

Thanks, good advice from both. I'll see what I can do with the Koreans. Shame they're behind us on techs.

 

[Daeron]

Things look pretty good, have FP build and a third army, Amsterdam is building HE and we can also build the Pentagon now. I left the units at the Korean-Chinese border with movement. Since the Korean peace treaty just ran out. Next player can decide how he wants to play it. The biggest news from across the borders is:

• that Portugal is at war with both Babylon and the Incans.
• that China has cavalry and is not afraid to use them on 1 hp MID's. They stay away from armies though.

Spoiler :

Pre-flight

Lux: 20 %
Tax: 80 %

Income: +92 gpt
Treasury: 1002 gold

Units (34 supported):
1 settler
20 workers
18 knights
2 armies
12 MID
8 swiss mercs
9 trebuchets

Total: 70 (72 upkeep)

Looks like 2 knights are going to be attacked on the first IBT.

At this point I think we could use 3 workers as roadbuilders, to support our push. So I interrupt 1 worker's irrigation to add to 2 others next turn.

After considering I decide against buying luxuries from the incans and portuguese. They ask more for than it would safe us in running lux.

Hit enter.

Mongols and China sign a peace treaty...
Inca and China have signed a peace treaty...

Lose the two knights to riders (0 of 2)

Hague Marketplace -> Courthouse

Mongols are building Bach Cathedral
Portuguese compelte Smith's

Turn 1, 260 AD
Arrange an MA with the Mongols against the Chinese for 9 gpt and our ivory.

Put troops into position

IBT
Spot the Portuguese UU and they declare on the Incans.

Utrecht marketplace -> courthouse

Turn 2, 270 AD

kill 1 musket and 3 Longbowmen

Lose a 5 hp elite knight to a 4 hp longbowmen on plains, second elite knight kills it. (5 of 8)

Kill the last 3 longbowmen at Chinan (8 of 11)

IBT
Incan and Portuguese are throwing ships at each other.
Chinese musket pillages tile near Chinan

Amsterdam knight -> knight
Holwerd harbor -> knight

Turn 3, 280 AD
Kill 2 spears, 2 muskets, 2 riders and 2 longbowmen (16 of 19)

IBT
Renegotiate peace with the Incans

The Hague courthouse -> knight
Utrecht courthouse -> knight
Chinan worker -> ...

Turn 4, 290 AD
Abandon Chinan
Found Rotterdam -> barracks

Kill a musket with a vet and get our third leader when an elite knight slays a spearmen, (18 of 21)

I send the leader on his way to Eindhoven to rush the FP

Kill the last musket and 2 longbows, capture a catapult (22 of 25)

Rush a few settlers

IBT
Noticing that a large stack of Chinese units is retreating, maybe the Mongols landed near their capitol.

Maastricht library -> granary (workerpump)
Leiden settler -> settler
Zwolle settler -> settler
Gouda settler -> settler
Dordrecht settler -> settler

Turn 5, 300 AD
Mostly positioning of units

IBT
Amsterdam knight -> knight
Eindhoven courthouse -> forbidden palace

Turn 6, 310 AD
Nothing much, slowing down a little for settlers to catch up

IBT

America and Mongols sign peace treaty

Leerdam library -> trebuchet

Portuguese compelte Bach catherdral

Turn 7, 320 AD
Still have to wait 3 turns for the peace treaty with the Koreans.

Nextg player is in for a treat though

IBT
Babylon delcared war on the Portuguese, now Portugal is at war with both the Incans and the Babs. hopefully it'll slow them down.

Eindhoven Forbidden Palace -> marketplace
rotterdam barracks -> settler

Turn 8, 330 AD
Nothing much, switch Amsterdam to Heroic epic

IBT
Haarlem marketplace -> courthouse

Turn 9, 340 AD

Kill 3 muskets in Pyongyang and reveal a Chinese cavalry.
Elite MID kills the cavalry and we get another leader, Henry Hudson. Raze the city, netting 3 extra workers and one captured worker (26 of 29)

IBT
Chinese focus attack on Korean city, but do clean up our elite MID. (26 of 30)

The Hague knight -> knight
Utrecht knight -> knight

Turn 10, 250 AD
found Harlingen => settler

Create third army.

Considering the next player will have to decide how to start the war with the Koreans, I'll leave the units on the front with their movement left.

 

[tupaclives]

Do we want to try and make further gains on China in the short term or would we rather send one of our armies on a pillaging run to take out their key resources?

 

[CKS]

My first reaction is to go exploring and pillaging.

 

[Daeron]

Maybe we could split forces and raze one more town, settling a new town at the narrow between the coast and that small inland sea. Then if we also raze Nam'po and settle the gap between the two inland seas there we will have a very small border.

We won't be able to attack the mongols while we have the MA with them against China. If the Mongols do make peace with China, we'll need one army to return to the choke at Dalandzadgad. Otherwise our core will be swarming with Mongols in no time.

Also, I started that granary in Maastricht for a workerpump. We can use it to get all our productive towns up to size 12. We need to step up our production at this point.

 

[del62]

Looks good, not sure why Temple in Hilversum was changed to library though, we could have pushed borders back with Korea already.

 

[Daeron]

Looks good, not sure why Temple in Hilversum was changed to library though, we could have pushed borders back with Korea already.

Ahh, I thought it was for the Mongol borders later on. Shouldn't matter too much though since one can be next to Nam'po in 2 turns if the 3 workers near Harlingen road one more tile.

 

[tupaclives]

I am playing, just being very careful with the turns. Will post a log soon.

 

[tupaclives]

Pre-Flight:

Cities look good. We have 11 turns left to run on our alliance with the Mongols, after which I am keen to make peace with China. I decide not to pull the trigger on war with Korea straight away.

Goals: Raze the nearest Chinese city. Get at least 3 more cities down. Secure our Chinese border. Get Chemistry.

Move our forces toward the next Chinese city. Kill a China Musket and spear with our MI army (2-0) for the loss of 4hp.

IBT - Portugal signs China into the war with Babylon. China attacks our wounded Knight army with a cavalry but loses (we're reduced to 1hp however) (3-0). Korea demands we move and we comply. The peace treaty is up for renewal and I renew without taking anything in return, so we can declare on them later with no damage to our reputation.
We get the Pentagon message.

Turn 1: Move our forces into position to attack Shantung. Nothing else really happens. Hold my breath and hit enter...

IBT - Portugal asks for an alliance against the Inca. I tell him no! Mongols get signed in against them instead. China signs the Inca in against Babylon. It's all go over there... A lot of Chinese riders and cavalry move south toward Namp'o. One of our exposed knights falls to a rider on the defensive (3-1). A chinese galley is spotted of our West coast.

Turn 2: Hilversum: Library --> Walls. Kill the rider with a knight (4-1). Start the bombarding of Shantung. Kill a wounded musket with a knight (5-1), and another (6-1) and another (7-1) and then kill a wounded cavalry with my 4th and final knight (8-1) and Shantung is ours! But as that place is an army-killing flip waiting to happen it must burn We get 9 slave workers. Kill 2 exposed Chinese cav near Harlingen for no loss (10-1). I'd be happy to drop 2 cities here and call it a day with the Chinese until we get a bit more sophisticated militarily. But those stupid, faithful, useless Mongols won't let that happen

IBT - We lose a Swiss Merc and 2 knights to counterattacks at Rotterdam. (10-4)

Turn 3 - Hilversum: Walls --> Settler. Holwerd: Knight --> Knight. Delft: Court --> Merc. We are stretched so thin I'm really starting to get worried about what's going to happen now that cavalry are on the scene....
Kill 2 cavalry with our knight army (12-4). Again have to brace myself and wait for the Chinese onslaught...

IBT - The Chinese come calling for peace but I have to turn them away They would pay 44gold and 40gpt for peace though (roughly 844gold for the value of peace atm)
Retreat a cavalry to our Merc.
More swishy tails as Chinese riders and cavalry arrive en masse.

Turn 4 - Arnhem: Court --> Market. Maastricht: Granary --> Court. Bombard cavalry where possible. Kill an exposed one with our knight (13-4). Found Lawersoog to be our new chokepoint. I shortrush walls there. Bombard some now-accessible units down to 1hp. Kill an exposed rider with an eKnight (14-4), 2 cavalry with vKnights (16-4) and a 1hp musket with a MI (17-4). Adjust Leiden to prevent a riot next turn.
Hold the line and pray...

IBT - Portugal offers to trade WM's with us handing over 470gp. I say no.
China attacks Harlingen, which is protected by just 1 Vet swiss merc and a bunch of redlined knights. China only has 1 cavalry with more than 1hp within range. If he wins Harlingen will fall to the swarms of 1hp cavalry that are still left...
He holds... just (18-4) and the chinese cavalry hold off their attack for another turn.

Turn 5 - The Hague: Knight --> Knight. Lauwerswoog: Walls - Rax (short rushed by disbanding a chinese worker). Harlingen: Walls (rushed last turn) --> Settler.
Bombard Chinese cavalary down to 1hp where possible (I would kill for some artillery atm for the 2-tile range...) Kill a cavalry with a knight Army (19-4). Kill another plus a musket with our MI army (21-4). Another cavalry bites the dust to a knight (22-4


I'm going to hold it there. I'll try and finish the rest of the turns tonight. I'm taking great pains to not be overrun.

It's painstaking stuff. And we are stretched very thin. A war with Korea doesn't look feasible until we make peace with China. Korea lacks horses and iron however so when it comes war should be much easier. Korea is also up Chemistry, but Education isn't enough to swing it. We could buy it for all our gold next turn if we still fancy attacking them within 20 turns or with GPT now if we don't mind waiting. What do you guys reckon?

 

[Daeron]

We could buy chemistry, but alternatively, we could save up the coin and build barracks in semi-corrupt cities, use our coin to rush knights wherever we can. What I noticed from my own turns and from your turnlog is that even with minimal losses, we struggle to keep up our amount of knights and other military.

Hard to decide without looking at the save. If we can form a stable killing zone at the Chinese border, I would advocate aiming for military tradition. If not, we might want to consider focusing on knight production. We've already got a hard time getting enough knights out, with 80 shield cavalry it will be worse.

 

[darski]

This is an exciting read.