Turks

[Knickers]

So, was just having a little look over who I should crush after the Spanish have had it and whilst I was looking over the Ottomans, I noticed that their capital was Istanbul. Now, back when the Ottoman empire existed, was that their capital? Because now it's certainly not, it's Ankara. Or have they changed their capital by building another palace there?

 

[Zefyrinus]

Actually, Constantinopel used to be their capital. But since that's also the name of the Byzantine capital, I guess they had no choice but to use its more modern name, Istanbul. But that's kinda stupid, they could've just used Byzantium (which was an even earlier name for Constantinopel) for the Byzantine capital.

EDIT: All three are different names for the same city btw if it wasn't clear.

 

[Knickers]

Actually, Constantinopel used to be their capital. But since that's also the name of the Byzantine capital, I guess they had no choice but to use its more modern name, Istanbul. But that's kinda stupid, they could've just used Byzantium (which was an even earlier name for Constantinopel) for the Byzantine capital.

EDIT: All three are different names for the same city btw if it wasn't clear.

No but what I was saying is that the modern capital of Turkey is Ankara, not Istanbul.

 

[anaxagoras]

No but what I was saying is that the modern capital of Turkey is Ankara, not Istanbul.

Yes, but Istanbul/Constantinople/Byzantium was a capital city in the region for a long time, and most specifically it was the capital of the Ottoman Empire. When the Republic of Turkey was created after WWI, supplanting the Ottomans, the capital of the republic was placed in Ankara.

 

[Knickers]

Oh seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen. Cheers for clearing that one up!

 

[Exwing17]

well said anaxagoras. Although I don't think 'supplanting' is the right word but i'm just being picky because i'm bored.

 

[anaxagoras]

"succeeding"? "replacing"? "forcibly created in place of"? I'm not really sure how to phrase that. The Ottoman Empire was disbanded as a result of the war, and the Republic of Turkey was founded in roughly the same geographic space. So, yeah, maybe "supplanting" isn't quite right.

 

[del62]

without wishing to be a pedant the ottoman empire was far greater than modern day turkey, including syria and other parts of middle east and at times parts of europe

 

[capnvonbaron]

now its Turkish delight

on a moonlit night

 

[Mesodius]

But that's kinda stupid, they could've just used Byzantium (which was an even earlier name for Constantinopel) for the Byzantine capital.

The only reasoning I can think of is that the game is already using Byzantium as the name of the city for the Romans. Since 3 different empires use it as a major city in the game, I guess they decided to use all three different historical names to ease confusion, and in the order that the empire controlled the region.

Romans- Byzantines- Ottomans
Byzantium- Constantinople- Istanbul

 

[Snarkhunter]

The only reasoning I can think of is that the game is already using Byzantium as the name of the city for the Romans. Since 3 different empires use it as a major city in the game, I guess they decided to use all three different historical names to ease confusion, and in the order that the empire controlled the region.

Romans- Byzantines- Ottomans
Byzantium- Constantinople- Istanbul

I think the Turks changed the name to Istanbul shortly after taking it in 1453 & that is probably the reason for the game's use of terms.

As for the modern Republic, how about "forcible devolution"? Or "assisted Balkanization"?

kk

 

[anaxagoras]

without wishing to be a pedant the ottoman empire was far greater than modern day turkey, including syria and other parts of middle east and at times parts of europe

The Ottomans had already lost most of their European holdings by the start of WWI, and were certainly not at their zenith when WWI began. The Republic itself roughly coincides with the core of the old empire. Most of the other parts were already semi-autonomous, and were split off into nationhood or as semi-autonomous protectorates of the WWI victors, including Syria, Iraq, Palestine, and Jordan, to name a few of the more well-known.

The history of that region is, shall we say, challenging.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

How weird is it that Rome has a city named Byzantium, but Byzantium doesn't?

 

[Zefyrinus]

How weird is it that Rome has a city named Byzantium, but Byzantium doesn't?

Yeah. I think both should have Byzantium. If both civilizations are present in the game, the Byzantines will get the name since it's the first name in their list, so the Romans will just skip over that name when they get far.

 

[darski]

I could be wrong on this but I believe (i.e. I have read) they changed the name from Constantinople because Constantine was a major Christian figure and they wanted to close off that connection.

 

[Sharwood]

Okay, here goes.

Istanbul was originally known as Byzantium. Emperor Constantine rebuilt the city as his capital and renamed it Constantinople; literally, City of Constantine. When the Roman Empire split in two, Constantinople remained the capital of the Eastern Empire. When the Western Empire fell, the Eastern Empire became known as the Byzantine Empire or Byzantium, for somewhat obvious reasons. Eventually, the Ottomans conquered Constantinople, possibly the greatest city in Europe at the time, and made it their capital.

The Ottoman Turks did not change the city's name. It remained their capital, retaining the name Constantinople, until after Mustapha Kemal (later known as Kemal Ataturk) successfully led the Young Turk Revolution against the last Ottoman Sultan, and made Greece and Armenia his biatches. He moved the capital of the new state of Turkey to the more centrally located Ankara - which, incidentally, used to be known as Angora. The language has changed over the centuries - and eventually, years later, changed the name of Constantinople to Istanbul. This had nothing to do with Christianity, it was just another of Ataturk's many moves to break with the past.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Yeah. I think both should have Byzantium. If both civilizations are present in the game, the Byzantines will get the name since it's the first name in their list, so the Romans will just skip over that name when they get far.

Remember that the "Byzantines" was a later name given to the Eastern Roman Empire. Back when the Byzantines were in power, they were just the Roman Empire, and throughout this entire period (IIRC), the city was known as "Constantinople"...