Turn 80-89

I'm in a PBEM with him as well. I actually declared on turn 5 when I saw his explorer, and killed him before he found my territory. It's a tiny 1 vs 1, so war was imminent anyways. I also ended up being one of his allies in the game that daveshack hosted. I can tell you with no hesitation that BCLG will honor his commitments. Can't say as much for the rest of the team though. The only other one I've had game knowledge of is Robi. He looks for reasons to go to war.
 
So it looks like we can all agree, BCLG and the rest of his crew are stone cold killers. Lets not forget, this game is not like the ISDG - only one team walks out of here. Maybe we have been overestimating the value of diplomacy in such a situation.
 
Which is why we need to ensure we can support ourselves technologically... so hence the importance of getting the Great Library. (As well as building plenty of Axemen for defence, of course.)
 
Loco has accepted open borders. So our southern warrior will head back and explore there.

If anybody is planning to attack they won’t do it until they are done exploring so we’ll use the time to prepare. Warrior in NW is coming home (9 turns away), the guy on the hill will heal (3 turns) and head NE looking for Aloha’s border. Next turn our 1 xp warrior will be back in our border by Ploughland and be upgraded to Axe the turn after that. The new axe will head to Barb city and see if he can take it (6 turns).

Sinsburg (obelisk 7): pig pasture done, cottage up next, workboat next build. Another worker in the area will finish road and open trade route.

Ploughland (axman 4): hills will get mined as soon as workers return.

Wheelville (worker 4): cottage being constructed, library up next will be rushed.

Chowderton: settled next turn, will work clams and build work boat.
 
we should get a settler for the marble - great librarycity out soon too.
 
I don't want it and in the "Goals" thread wonders got zero vote so don't think many others want it either. Monarchy would be my choice for the next tech, not Literature. Sheep city would be my choice for city #6.
 
Lord Parkin said:
Which is why we need to ensure we can support ourselves technologically... so hence the importance of getting the Great Library. (As well as building plenty of Axemen for defence, of course.)
Click to expand...

Does the Great Library really help that much? It gives +2 free scientists, but that's all unless I've completely misread the 'pedia. Granted, that's a lot, but I see a lot of people seemingly giving it the same importance as it has in Civ3 which doesn't look right to me.
 
DaveShack said:
Does the Great Library really help that much? It gives +2 free scientists, but that's all unless I've completely misread the 'pedia. Granted, that's a lot, but I see a lot of people seemingly giving it the same importance as it has in Civ3 which doesn't look right to me.
Click to expand...
Well, the two free scientists (+6 science) is not all of it. The library and the specialists together give 8 GPP which is doubled by philosophic trait to 16 GPP. That's a great scientist in 19 turns, another one in 19 more turns and the third 25 turns after that. Not to be underestimated.
But I think the decision if we should build it depends on what our longterm strategy is. Do we plan to become a peaceful economically developed empire or a pointy stick research warmonger?

Great about open borders with Loco, though they haven't responded anything...
 
I agree with you Daveshack. Although it does influence our chances of getting a great scientist.

EDIT: Man, it took me 2 minutes to write this???
 
Oops, I seriously blew it. When I opened the save it said "They have accepted your offer" I though cool and hit exit diplomacy, but looks like you need to hit offer trade again to accept. I will be sending an apology and explanation.


To Team Loco,

When I opened the save on our turn I was pleased to see that the open border agreement had been accepted. I hit “exit diplomacy” and played the turn not realizing that I was supposed to hit “offer trade” to accept. I’m sorry that my mistake may cost you one turn of exploration, but I hope you will accept my apology for this foolish error and re-offer open borders. Be assured that it will be accepted properly next time.

With apologies,
1889 (Ed)

Edit: For right now I've replayed and asked Epsilon to wait and see if this is OK with the mods.
 
Whew, Ginger Ale says its Ok. We still have open borders.
 
The question is not just how much will the Great Library help us, it's also how much it would help our enemies to have it. You certainly don't want the tech leader grabbing the Great Library for themselves, along with several other wonders which you decide to ignore, and then running away to an insurmountable tech lead and winning the game. It's also about keeping things in balance. Personally, I do feel strongly that the Great Library is important for us to obtain, but I realise that I am just one voice amongst many. I hope I can convince at least some of you that in this case, going for just one wonder (for now) would actually be a sensible idea for us. The way I see it, this map is fairly spread-out, so we need not fear an attack for a decent amount of time yet.

Thus, we need to actually try to do something about our horrible GNP/production situation in these early stages, before we fall away and become one of the weakest civs in the world, just waiting to become a part of some other civ's territory. Building a massive amount of Axemen right now for an attack that will probably not come immediately is not what I see as sensible. Especially since the eventual attack will most likely come when the enemy has just got some new technological upgrade - perhaps Macemen, which would completely obsolete the point of building our Axemen in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we shouldn't continue to build up our military, I'm just saying that we should allow room for a few other things too, to make sure we don't become the most backward and weak civ in the world. ;)
 
I don't honestly think a team will want to wage war soon, as I think it killed two teams in the civIII mtdg.
 
I had an idea today (yeah, I do get them :p).
Isn't there a google function like MS Office?
If we set up an account there we could make a history document easily, and we could also keep track of all sorts of things. For example we could enter all foreign information we have to keep track of it without having to check the save.

Do you all think this idea is good?
 
@ Lord Parkin: Excellent post! It has given me pause. However I think that building a wonder to keep others from getting it is only worthwhile for Civ3 GL or UN. As far as wonders allowing our enemies to win the game; this game will end with a war, all PBEMs do, if the wonders are giving them a huge advantage the proper counter-strategy would be to attack to rob them of the initiative and force them to protect their huge investments. However the GL is probably one of the best wonders left (Considering wonders from later eras may not be around long enough to be worth the cost) but it is still out of our way, maybe the Pyramids would work out better.

Your points about or GNP and manufacturing being in sad shape is right on as is your warning about over reliance on axmen and the low prospects of mounting any invasion in our current state.

These discussions go well beyond the scope of a turn-by-turn thread so let’s move them to a new Long Term Strategy thread for more complete examination.

@ Dutch: I'd probably use it.
 
That's cool. Now what should we put there? Oh, I know lets start a thread!
 
1889 said:
@ Lord Parkin: Excellent post! It has given me pause. However I think that building a wonder to keep others from getting it is only worthwhile for Civ3 GL or UN. As far as wonders allowing our enemies to win the game; this game will end with a war, all PBEMs do, if the wonders are giving them a huge advantage the proper counter-strategy would be to attack to rob them of the initiative and force them to protect their huge investments. However the GL is probably one of the best wonders left (Considering wonders from later eras may not be around long enough to be worth the cost) but it is still out of our way, maybe the Pyramids would work out better.

Your points about or GNP and manufacturing being in sad shape is right on as is your warning about over reliance on axmen and the low prospects of mounting any invasion in our current state.

These discussions go well beyond the scope of a turn-by-turn thread so let’s move them to a new Long Term Strategy thread for more complete examination.
Click to expand...
Regarding the Pyramids, we'd never have the slightest chance of winning that one, since we don't have Stone. I also don't think that it would be as useful for us as the Great Library would (and the Great Library is cheaper, AND it can be rushed with marble which we have). So forget the Pyramids at least. ;)

Regarding the alliance thing against the tech leader, that's all well and good in theory. But I've played many a PBEM myself, and have found that in some cases if the tech leader is too far ahead then it's simply impossible for even a many-pronged alliance to take them out. Despite having numerical superiority, the tech leader is always one (or more!) upgrades ahead, combating Macemen with Grenadiers and smashing through Riflemen with Infantry. Numbers are useful, but superior technology is what truly decimates out on the battlefield.

I guess we're just two players with naturally different strategies, but I really do believe it would be sensible to consider the Great Library option seriously. I'm certainly no newbie to multiplayer myself, so this isn't just a mere whim. Of course, it won't be the end of the world if we don't grab that wonder when we can, but I feel that it would be a bit of a shame, a lost opportunity for us to enhance our power in this tough and cruel world.
 
why are we working the plains in wheelville instead of the lake? it would give us 1 more commerce.

(And I would also work the farm in Ploughland)
 
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