Turn Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Lord Parkin
- Start date
Trystero
Deity
I finished the turn and posted an update: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9907495#post9907495
I'm not sure that Education is a priority, at least while we are still in the ETTA. And we can't research Guilds without Feudalism. I selected Printing Press, since we will most benefit from the extra gold. We are putting no beakers into research right now, so we have time to discuss this.
I also switched our espionage focus to Mavericks, since we have plenty of EPs put toward Quatronia.
I think we might want to run an engineer somewhere to get a GE for Taj Mahal once we research Nationalism. Or we could save up GS, and then bulb techs when we leave the ETTA.
I looked at the turn log to see when we were getting techs. Here are the recent techs:
50 BC - Engineering (us, 1000 beakers)
50 BC - HBR from Quatronia (250 beakers)
125 BC - Philosophy from CDZ (800 beakers)
125 BC - Astronomy (us, 2000 beakers)
425 BC - Music from Quat (600 beakers) = useless
575 BC - Construction from Amazon (350 beakers) = it's been 25 turns since they researched anything!
575 BC - Lit from CDZ (200 beakers) = useless
625 BC - Optics from Quat. (600 beakers)
To summarize, by my calculation, since we got Optics from Quatronia, we've done 3000 beakers worth of research. Quatronia has done 850, CDZ has done 1000, and Amazon 350 beakers. Continuing this way is idiotic.
I'm not sure that Education is a priority, at least while we are still in the ETTA. And we can't research Guilds without Feudalism. I selected Printing Press, since we will most benefit from the extra gold. We are putting no beakers into research right now, so we have time to discuss this.
I also switched our espionage focus to Mavericks, since we have plenty of EPs put toward Quatronia.
I think we might want to run an engineer somewhere to get a GE for Taj Mahal once we research Nationalism. Or we could save up GS, and then bulb techs when we leave the ETTA.
I looked at the turn log to see when we were getting techs. Here are the recent techs:
50 BC - Engineering (us, 1000 beakers)
50 BC - HBR from Quatronia (250 beakers)
125 BC - Philosophy from CDZ (800 beakers)
125 BC - Astronomy (us, 2000 beakers)
425 BC - Music from Quat (600 beakers) = useless
575 BC - Construction from Amazon (350 beakers) = it's been 25 turns since they researched anything!
575 BC - Lit from CDZ (200 beakers) = useless
625 BC - Optics from Quat. (600 beakers)
To summarize, by my calculation, since we got Optics from Quatronia, we've done 3000 beakers worth of research. Quatronia has done 850, CDZ has done 1000, and Amazon 350 beakers. Continuing this way is idiotic.
It is ridiculous, but don't forget what we're really trading those beakers for is co-operation. It might not be written into the agreement but it is the effect of it. We have a favourable 4 vs 2 situation currently and it's a direct result of the technology alliance.
Are the other teams getting more out of it than we are? Certainly. Maybe it was the wrong decision to focus so heavily on research output rather than development from the get-go. But none of that really matters now.
The alternative, of researching ourselves a tech lead without trading with anyone, or an even bigger tech lead by making beaker for beaker trades, would get us dogpiled very quickly. Unless you have a viable alternative, continuing this way is still the better option, idiotic or not.
To me, it just means two things:
* We should not feel guilty about spending more gold on more upgrades, because everyone seems to be doing it.
* We should not feel guilty about ignoring Amazon's complaints about our lack of military assistance.
I had thougth at least 1 Galleon goes to Mav with some units, The agent is in Arc also, he must go to west and there on Cara to mav.
btw
If there is only 1 worker to work the tile, then its better to build the mine first and then the road, the other way is only right if you 've another woker to work there with connection to the road-system.
In Prokyon best is, we 've 1/24
and 9/60 
so work now
T117 mine and pigs to get 5/24 and 15/60
T118 mine and pigs to get 9/24 and 21/60
T119 mine and pigs to get 13/24 and 27/60
T120 whip and work clam to get 17/22 and 65/60 overlay 5:1,25 = 4
T121 work clam to get 21/22
T122 work pigs to get 13/24
I 've changed the workling tiles there, also the mine to Sirius from AC (AC has a free mine).
In Rigel we should whip next turn the forge for pop 2.
In Can needs the Moai 5 turns now (with chop gain-Pindicator), we can make it in 4, if we take 2 turns smith instead coast. There is a specialty: when we take the 5 turn-job, then 1 turn mine first is better.
btw
A general (Iwan) has been born while slaze played.
btw
If there is only 1 worker to work the tile, then its better to build the mine first and then the road, the other way is only right if you 've another woker to work there with connection to the road-system.
In Prokyon best is, we 've 1/24
and 9/60 so work nowT117 mine and pigs to get 5/24
and 15/60 T118 mine and pigs to get 9/24
and 21/60 T119 mine and pigs to get 13/24
and 27/60 T120 whip and work clam to get 17/22
and 65/60 overlay 5:1,25 = 4T121 work clam to get 21/22
T122 work pigs to get 13/24
I 've changed the workling tiles there, also the mine to Sirius from AC (AC has a free mine).
In Rigel we should whip next turn the forge for pop 2.
In Can needs the Moai 5 turns now (with chop gain-Pindicator), we can make it in 4, if we take 2 turns smith instead coast. There is a specialty: when we take the 5 turn-job, then 1 turn mine first is better.
btw
A general (Iwan) has been born while slaze played.
AlphaShard
Emperor
I like what Irgy said in the last part, that we can focus on gold for awhile. Maybe we should just stick to 0% research for awhile.
Yes actually I didn't say that in my last post but as AlphaShard just suggested saving gold for a while even if it's not for upgrades is definately an option. Maybe we can save enough to go 100% all the way through Education->Liberalism when the time is right.
The only thing I definately don't want to do is kick up a big stink about it diplomatically and single ourselves out.
The only thing I definately don't want to do is kick up a big stink about it diplomatically and single ourselves out.
Trystero
Deity
I wasn't arguing that the tech alliance was a bad idea from the start. I was just pointing out (OK - complaining) that it is starting to outlive it's usefulness, and that we should act accordingly by reducing our emphasis on research.
Trystero
Deity
I don't think we should send units toward Mavs until we have a significant stack ready.
Yes, I just hadn't moved him yet since it will take a few turns for the caravel to get back.
I didn't know that. I'd switch, but the road should be done at the end of this turn.
In Prokyon best is, we 've 1/24
T117 mine and pigs to get 5/24
T118 mine and pigs to get 9/24
T119 mine and pigs to get 13/24
T120 whip and work clam to get 17/22
T121 work clam to get 21/22
T122 work pigs to get 13/24
I 've changed the workling tiles there, also the mine to Sirius from AC (AC has a free mine).
OK, thanks!
Got it. Edit: to be clear do you mean this turn (118) or next (119)?
Sorry HUSch, I don't understand the last sentence.
AlphaShard
Emperor
I should have said expounding on what you (Irgy) were stating, we can focus more on gold for now. Kicking up a stink will only get us in hot water so we'll just tell them were focusing on gold for awhile. It's not like we haven't given them alot of tech as is.
It helped in that it gave us people we didn't have to worry about but now I see that having a lead didn't prevent the Mavs/Merlot from having the ability to get military strength.
It helped in that it gave us people we didn't have to worry about but now I see that having a lead didn't prevent the Mavs/Merlot from having the ability to get military strength.
You mean this:Trystero said:
It's so, if we chop in the forth turn, we get in the 5. turn, 1
less.Or other way, if we need the chop gain at least in the fifth turn, then it's good to get the gain in this turn, we get nothing better for chop before. You can allways change between chop and mine at working a forest hill. you must only look, that you 've after chop 1 turn to mine.
Another question, Trystero I don't understand the moving of units to Anje. I don't like to mass units there, it 'll only make demands of Amazon to support them in their war and not fighting for our gain.
So, I would like to go in combat now, if not we should skip any building of units and make our land better. I'm a peaceful player, but I haven't won a mp in the last 4 years because of this.
We need our gallons south of Bode, to fight against the mavs ships.
Slogan should be: Go south!
So, I would like to go in combat now, if not we should skip any building of units and make our land better. I'm a peaceful player, but I haven't won a mp in the last 4 years because of this.
We need our gallons south of Bode, to fight against the mavs ships.
Slogan should be: Go south!
Irgy
Please ask the ETTa, what their research goals are, if any research at all? Then we can make better decisions about our standing. The ETTa is a reseach pact/union
a question:
Ama and Quat 've engineering. Has anybody gives this to them? I didn't read about it in this fred, perhaps I 've overseen it.
Please ask the ETTa, what their research goals are, if any research at all? Then we can make better decisions about our standing. The ETTa is a reseach pact/union
a question:
Ama and Quat 've engineering. Has anybody gives this to them? I didn't read about it in this fred, perhaps I 've overseen it.
Trystero
Deity
It's so, if we chop in the forth turn, we get in the 5. turn, 1
Or other way, if we need the chop gain at least in the fifth turn, then it's good to get the gain in this turn, we get nothing better for chop before. You can allways change between chop and mine at working a forest hill. you must only look, that you 've after chop 1 turn to mine.
OK - Sorry again, I want to make sure I understand you properly. I understand this has to do with chopping for the Moai in Canopus. If I understand correctly, you are saying we should time the chop to complete on the same turn we finish building the Moai to maximize overflow? To do this we should alternate between chopping and mining the plain hill forest in Canopus so that the chop finishes on the same turn as the Moai. Is that correct?
I'm also not sure how this relates to what you were saying earlier that we should switch a citizen from a coastal tile to a smith. By smith do you mean an engineer specialist?
I moved the units toward Anjennida to deal with the barb city that would interfere with our placement of the horse city.The barb city has 3 archers. We could wait and send more units from Sol. I was not intending to leave the maces on Anjennida. They would dispatch the barbs and then leave.
We currently have 8 macemen (including the 2 on Anjennida, and 1 guarding the entrance to Bode), with 2 in production, and only 2 catapults. If we are going to attack Mavs we need more siege units. We also have 3 warriors we can upgrade to maces. At least one of these should be saved to use as a super-medic when we get a Great General. We also have 3 East Indiamen, but we need at least one for transport between Sol and Anjennida/Bode. We need to build more siege, a few more ships, and some support units (pikes and archers/longbows). If we attack the Mavericks home island, we should be prepared to take more than one city. We will also need some troops to deal with a possible counterattack.
I don't like the idea of moving ships with troops south of Bode until we are ready to attack. If Mavs see them, they will know an attack is coming soon. If one is sunk, we will lose the ship and 4 units. It is better to send empty ships to secure the area south of Bode and blockade the Mav home island. In the meantime, we should build a road from Vega to the south coast of it's arm to allow troops to board transports quickly.
I gave out Engineering. Quatronia were online when I was looking at the game last night and asked for it. So I passed it out to the rest of the ETTA as well.
Trystero
Deity
I've played most of the turn, but I haven't ended it yet. I had Toch start mining the green hill (as HUSch suggested) rather than building a road first. pindicator has moved to the forested hill in Canopus.
I moved Enterprise out of Vega toward the south, but didn't realize the catapults were loaded. I think it should either return to Vega, or unload the cats on the south coast near Vega while we use Enterprise to disrupt Mavs shipping. The spy moved to the south coast near Vega to wait for the caravel.
We need a decision on how to handle the new barb city. Irgy and AlphaShard, I need your input on whether we should attack with the maces on the East Indiaman, or wait for reinforcements to be built on Sol or Rigel, or attack with the two maces on Rigel.
Also HUSch: do we whip in Rigel this turn or next?
I moved Enterprise out of Vega toward the south, but didn't realize the catapults were loaded. I think it should either return to Vega, or unload the cats on the south coast near Vega while we use Enterprise to disrupt Mavs shipping. The spy moved to the south coast near Vega to wait for the caravel.
We need a decision on how to handle the new barb city. Irgy and AlphaShard, I need your input on whether we should attack with the maces on the East Indiaman, or wait for reinforcements to be built on Sol or Rigel, or attack with the two maces on Rigel.
Also HUSch: do we whip in Rigel this turn or next?
Yes
This turn whip in Rigel. Ive done it.
We can take the spy with enterprise also.
Trystero
We don't need 5 mace to destroy the barb town, 3 and a cat were enough but this is another question. We build maces for war against Mav; but after they showing their units, we 've lost the momentum to go there. Why?
What you get from Quat for engineering? I don't like the giving for nothing.
We lost this war 4 against 2, when nobody research and some makes cash for the next war.
Especially we lost, if there is no communication between us. I think Quat and CDZ are interesting only in their combat against another. And Amazon is too weak to make any good move.
Trystero
Deity
Maybe we aren't understanding each other. I think we should attack Mavs but we need some siege units. I don't think we need all the macemen to capture the barb ciity. I will send the ship back to Vega.
I didn't get anything from Quatronia. Sharing techs is what we agreed to when we joined the ETTA. I agree that spending resources on research now is giving away our advantage. I made that argument in a post above.
I will spend the next few turns consolidating our forces, building up siege units and destroying the barb city. I wiil build an archer (edit: Never mind, I see you put a crossbow in the queue. sounds good) in Rigel next and have the two macemen on Anjennida attack the barb city.
I switched espionage to Mavs, since we have more than enough toward Quatronia for now. They are saving up tons of gold for upgrades.
I haven't put the crossbow, it was there, because we need there only a guard an archer 'll be better. I would build better units only with barracks. And Rigel 'll be our next commerce town, so I don't like a barrack there, but a bib/market and harbour, perhaps a court.
What kind of upgrades can Quat 've in mind?
I think, when we go against mav we 'll put the EsP at maximum for few turns to get a look in their towns and 've some possibilities with agents. We don't need the money.
btw
What is the meaning of
What kind of upgrades can Quat 've in mind?
I think, when we go against mav we 'll put the EsP at maximum for few turns to get a look in their towns and 've some possibilities with agents. We don't need the money.
btw
What is the meaning of
Trystero
Deity
OK - I'll have pindicator chop in Canopus, and switch the build in Rigel to the (cheaper) archer. I won't get a chance to play until later today, since things have been crazy at work.
Running up the Espionage slider is a great idea.
"T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't" is the team I'm playing on for SGOTM12. The name is taken from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series of books. It's supposed to be a dwarvish expression that translates as "Today is a good day for someone else to die!"
Running up the Espionage slider is a great idea.
"T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't" is the team I'm playing on for SGOTM12. The name is taken from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series of books. It's supposed to be a dwarvish expression that translates as "Today is a good day for someone else to die!"
