Turnplay Log

[Daghdha]

What do we build in DSOTM if we pop GLib in S-mountain? The Gardens? Colossus is nice, but that would be wasting shields, no?

 

[jb1964]

What do we build in DSOTM if we pop GLib in S-mountain? The Gardens? Colossus is nice, but that would be wasting shields, no?

The GL will certainly give us additional choices.]

Colossus - 200s, 3c, expires w/ flight, +1g per tile
HG - 300s, 3c, expires w/ steam, 1 unhappy to content
Leo's - 600s, 2c, never , half the cost
Sun Tsu's - 600s, 2c, never, racks everywhere
Sistines - 600s, 6c, never, double cathedras

Colossus - best c/s ratio but we're way past the 200s. +12gpt would last through ~20 required techs prior to Flight. I'm not sure if we'll need bombers to protect our shores so we may never see it expire. Minimum number of turns researching w/ Babes would be ~50 (600g).

HG - a c/s ratio of 1 but we would also be overspending here as well. Steam would only be ~6 techs away assuming we get the lower tier from the FC axis of dirtbags.

Leo's - half the gold of whatever we have to upgrade for as long as we're upgrading. This could be a lot of coin but I don't know our composition at the moment to take a stab at the total number of gold savings.

Art of War - no

Sistine's - similal c/s ratio as HG & Colossus w/o the overspending but at 2x the price. Provides the largest cpt of all wonders and we like that. Cathedrals go from 3 unhappy/content to 6. With this wonder it's possible that we would never need to use the entertainment slider. Ever. This wonder would likely be available to us for the entire game.

 

[RFHolloway]

Agree Sistines is the way to go - extra happy means more room for the whip. That is the upside. Now lets consider the downside.

what happens if we get beaten to Glib? Cascade to ToA and/or Palace to hold the sheilds from the two cities? are we better to change S mountain to ToA until GLib comes in so we can switch DSOTM to Palace on the interturn if we get beaten so no loss of shields?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

RF has the plan. Just don't waste the shields.

 

[killercane]

Yesterday was crazy busy so I didnt have time to do a proper report. There is not much to say however. We get Mono and ship it to Babes, produced a worker in the capital, and changed everyone to growth or tax. We make 211 gpt (or alternatively we could research Theology in 4 turns). There are still a couple of cities starving from not having any useful tiles to work.

Heres something though: after adding all those workers we have 33% of world population . Too bad it will be gone soon.

And lets cross our fingers we dont get attacked anytime soon either. Since the treaty is now signed, can we ask BABEs for Feudalism or we dont want it yet?

 

[Daghdha]

I think we can ask for it now so we can get the whip going asap, then start building a MDI/Pike force to cover our coasts. I guess it's some time before we can trade Babs for horsies.

 

[Othniel]

what happens if we get beaten to Glib? Cascade to ToA and/or Palace to hold the sheilds from the two cities? are we better to change S mountain to ToA until GLib comes in so we can switch DSOTM to Palace on the interturn if we get beaten so no loss of shields?

Perhaps this is due to my ignorance of how multiplayer works, but switching the build on the inter-turn sounds a lot like breaking into the build order, which I thought was forbidden by the rules...

Anyhow, as this is my first post for Team Gong, perhaps you guys could steer me a little (and also tell me if I'm posting this in the wrong thread here...)

I spent a couple of hours the other night reading up on the situation and getting a little more insight into the...uhh...offbeat personality of this team. This game sounds like too much fun.

Before I try and comment more on our situation, are there any particularities I should be aware of for human-human civ games, such as strategies, things to watch out for, etc.? If you say just roll with the flow and do your best, that's cool with me , but if there's anything specifically that comes to mind, I'm all ears.

I've been playing strategy board games vs humans since I was knee-high to a grasshopper, so hopefully that'll help guide me over the learning curve...

 

[jb1964]

Heya Othniel...

The turnplay log is somewhat, only somewhat, reserved for reporting on the turnplay... and the Department of Turnplay is more of the place where we have the discussions as to what directions to steer the odd boat.

The other really hot thread is the Diplomatic thread w/ Team Babe.

In these threads you'll find a few lingering beefs from the first multi-player game as well as some solid friendships. But more than anything you'll find some solid respect for some of the top players. That respect manifests itself in many ways... for instance, Team Babe has a healthy respect for the players on Team Sabre as well as some lingering scores to settle. And that is why the first battle that breaks out here is going to be the Babes landing on their shores. At least that's my prediction.

Babes might have respect for some of us but more than that they have some strong friendships and that is why we've been able to play loose w/ them when it comes to the passing of info and open-ended agreements on techs and what the future holds for us.

More later....

 

[Daghdha]

MTDG's are a lot about building strong alliances w/ people you trust. It's a balance btw trust/honour and knowing that, in the end, only one team can win. What we're doing is backbinding Babes with an agreement we know will prevent them from being hostile to us while planning on dropping a cult bomb and then sit thight defending our island.

 

[killercane]

Nothing much happening again except we are numero uno in score! As irrelevant as that is in the grand scheme of things its still nice to know.

We still have a couple of cities starving but not for long when we get Feudie. 2 turns until Glibe. I used our gold to get some more workers, set up library rushes by buying some spears, and finished rushing some temples. Good bad, do we want to do something else with available funds? Upgrading units?

Sugar Mountain on 2 turn MDIs when it completes the Library? Or after libe/cath/temple?

Perhaps this is due to my ignorance of how multiplayer works, but switching the build on the inter-turn sounds a lot like breaking into the build order, which I thought was forbidden by the rules...

It looks like you are correct. I must have drank my beer and passed right over that one. And we are guilty of this infraction so we have to self report that (the turn after takeover from Rick to prevent a riot, I think it was in the turnlog). It seems like TimBentley or someone prevented a riot earlier too. This is kind of a silly rule IMO since it is pretty normal play in GOTM/HOF/whatever and wasnt in the first MTDG but still, good catch Othniel. Does someone want to pm Regentman or GingerAle?

 

[Othniel]

It looks like you are correct.

Bummer that I was probably right...

I don't know RegentMan or Ginger Ale, so I'd prefer to not volunteer for the task of reporting. I agree that it seems like a stinky rule because AFAIK it's allowed for all the other major CFC competitions.

P.S. Thanks for the MTDG tips, jb and daghdha. It's a good/bad tradeoff for me to know so few of the other players when it comes to making alliances: they have no reason to trust me...and no reason to distrust me and vice versa. Of course, being on a team kinda makes that a moot point for now.

 

[killercane]

I have the turn up in front of me. We have workers produced from Graceland and 3 swamp cities. St. Alphonzo's gets a temple->libe and Rock Lobsterford gets the same deal. Evermore produces a settler->temple.

Since we are getting down to the nitty gritty, are there any orders? The turns will probably take longer from here on out to coordinate what everyone wants and some argumentation.

Check for any enemy units around- done, none there.
Check for GLibe build- done, not built yet.
Check for unhappies- done, Nutbush City needs a taxman, 56 shields in the box and set to make 4 so it will whip the library when out of revolt and is at 60 shields.

We get Feudalism from BABEs. Do we want to revolt? I vote yes but not before rushing some stuff. The -4 gpt to BABEs will be alleviated by having taxmen in anarchy so we wont be negative gpt. We want to build GLibe before we revolt or wait another turn? JB might have a heart attack in the interim though .

Do we want BABE to take some pics of the Sabre city and discuss waiting on GL? Or go ahead and build it?

 

[Daghdha]

I'm in for rush and revolt. Build the GLib asap unless Babes agree on paying half cost for investigation of as many cities needed to get sure.
You're doin' a great job killer

 

[Othniel]

Pardon my ignorance, but why would we want to delay the GLib and build it in another city? I would vote to build it now unless there are some compelling reasons I don't know about...

I'd also vote for using up our available cash and then revolting. That's assuming we would wait on that revolt until we build the GLib so we don't shoot ourselves in foot. Even being religious would still mean we have 1 turn lost production, right?

I just also realized how undefended we are. Wow and kinda Did we not want to upgrade some of the warriors to Gallics for roving stop-gap defense or would they be too few to matter against a determined human invasion?

 

[Daghdha]

I just also realized how undefended we are. Wow and kinda Did we not want to upgrade some of the warriors to Gallics for roving stop-gap defense or would they be too few to matter against a determined human invasion?

Too few to matter IMIO. I still think we should build enough numbers to have a shield preventing landings until marines. That would be 30-40 units.

 

[jb1964]

Hahaha, you guys are killing me. But it's a good hurt!

I would rather not have to explain a revolt and delay to Whomper and Wotan. They totally threatened to send over a boatload of Babes that would leave me in my death throws, but w/ a smile on my face (only visible once they had, umm, disembarked), if I didn't cough up the GLib. Ya, I think the Babes would take the revolt and delay poorly. My heart would explode. But hey, what does eveyone else think?

You understand my desire to finish the GLib first, however, this is a democratic anarchy and I will follow the idiotic majority whatever be their wishes.

I also totally concur w/ Daghie that Cane is doing a bang-up job!

 

[Othniel]

Too few to matter IMIO. I still think we should build enough numbers to have a shield preventing landings until marines. That would be 30-40 units.

Babe's don't know we're wide-open, do they? Because if they did, and I were them, I'd stab now, deal or no deal. Right now we are at our most vulnerable and the GLib is almost online.

It seems imperative to me to have some cities pumping axes for landing prevention duty.

 

[Daghdha]

Babe's don't know we're wide-open, do they? Because if they did, and I were them, I'd stab now, deal or no deal. Right now we are at our most vulnerable and the GLib is almost online.

It seems imperative to me to have some cities pumping axes for landing prevention duty.

They know they're stronger than us but not that it is by a stables lenght. Backstabbing a partner with a deal is an absolute in my book and I know that is the opinion of a lot of Babes too. It may give a payoff in short term, but if you want to make other deals (in this or future MTDG's) you're dead meat. That's why the wording/timing of treaties are so crucial. They should be bendable but not breakable. I know there's other ways of looking at this, but me I want to be able to do diplo and be trusted, in this and in coming games. All in all, I'm not worried about Babes jumping us now that the deal is sealed.

 

[jb1964]

I totally agree that it would serve the Babes well to slaughter us now but that's just not going to happen.

The treaty can be broken but to do so would leave them so screwed now and forever that's it's just not worth it. I would admire the guts, the sound decision, the execution, and then I would plot with all my strength to bring about their demise.

Also, long, long ago we had hoped for EXACTLY this situation w/ the Babes. We've looked into their deep lovely eyes, seen their "soul", and know we can do business w/ them.

I have also made it clear to Whomper and Wotan that we have more than enough GS's running about to thwart any FC-Axis landing. If they ever had the notion of attacking I would think they trust me enough to think long and hard about their chances of success. It doesn't matter that our defenses are all inflatable plastic dolls. What matters is that they think we have fast moving, crazed, sword-wielding, red head marauders on the prowl.

MW's don't hold up too well to GS's.

 

[Othniel]

They know they're stronger than us but not that it is by a stables lenght. Backstabbing a partner with a deal is an absolute in my book and I know that is the opinion of a lot of Babes too. It may give a payoff in short term, but if you want to make other deals (in this or future MTDG's) you're dead meat. That's why the wording/timing of treaties are so crucial. They should be bendable but not breakable. I know there's other ways of looking at this, but me I want to be able to do diplo and be trusted, in this and in coming games. All in all, I'm not worried about Babes jumping us now that the deal is sealed.

I agree that a stab would be a big black mark on anyone's record, especially in these MTDG where there are such long-term relationships. Speaking of which, I'm glad you guys know the Babes so well...makes cutting a long-term deal a lot easier to swallow.

That said, it's fascinating how the lines can blur between RL and games, especially when it comes to trust. I suspect that the long-term relationship aspect of these games normally wins out over the perfect stab, but there is always that chance people can isolate RL from the game and simply play to win in the short run.

It's that possibility that makes me ever so slightly nervous. On solo, I'd probably start hedging my bets and make defense now. Of course, I think we should hedge our bets in this thing as well because the risk/return from not having more military units seems to be getting ever more precarious. But, I bow to your guys' greater MTDG experience and relationship with the good ol' Babes if you prefer to wait.