Turtle Ship Doesn't Promote at Navigation?

[Txurce]

I just tried to upgrade a Turtle Ship to a Frigate once I researched Navigation, but there was no upgrade possible. I had to wait until Combustion and upgrade to a Destroyer. Unless I missed something, this is either a bug or a more serious limiting of Korea as "the hermit kingdom."

 

[TopGearFanatic]

Caravels don't upgrade to frigates.

 

[Txurce]

Caravels don't upgrade to frigates.

Sorry - there's a double thread on this. I couldn't build Frigates at all, with Navigation.

 

[agoodfella]

I hope a modder can introduce a Turtle Ship -> Frigate replacement mod....

 

[Txurce]

I hope a modder can introduce a Turtle Ship -> Frigate replacement mod....

Thal's VEM should already promote the Turtle Ship to a Frigate.

 

[TW_Honorius]

or a mod to have the turtle ship not be a UU that replaces the frigate, have it at the same time.

 

[muhtesem insan]

or a mod to have the turtle ship not be a UU that replaces the frigate, have it at the same time.

Caravel

 

[fmlizard2]

Yet another reason why the Turtle Ship will go down as the worst UU in the entire game. Just totally useless and worse than a caravel.

 

[Morningcalm]

Sadly, agreed. It'd be so much more useful if it could just enter ocean tiles.

 

[Louis XXIV]

When people were suggesting making it restricted to the shores, I had to concede it was more realistic. I didn't think Firaxis would do it, just because it is a big restriction. In the end, I think it slows expansion but doesn't kill it. Naval ships aren't spectacular to begin with. I'd probably build one or two depending on how many coasts I have to defend and that's about it. Kill some barbs with it.

Still, if I go to war, it'll be more effective attacking cities than the Hwach'a.

The question isn't if, by itself, it's bad, it's if everything else makes up for it. I'll explore with units instead. They're slower, but it'll be fine.

 

[anandus]

I don't see any 'problems' with the turtle ship.
It's an early ironclad. Handy for some defensive purposes, but that's all.

A UU doesn't have to be super or anything, just unique. And that's what it is.
Positively unique in it's strenght, negatively unique in most other regards

 

[MadDjinn]

Still, if I go to war, it'll be more effective attacking cities than the Hwach'a.

no it won't. Naval units only become effective once they get to logistics. That's a very very very long time at 2XP/shot; even if they started with some promotions.

The Hwach'a has 25 base attack, -25% vs. cities. That's removed with a siege promotion. So you have a 25 RA unit that can eat both cities and units, vs a boat that's got nothing useful going for it.

 

[Louis XXIV]

For some reason, I thought the Hwach'a had a penalty against cities.

 

[MadDjinn]

For some reason, I thought the Hwach'a had a penalty against cities.

it does, but it's only -25%. One siege promotion later, and that's taken care of.

 

[Drawmeus]

Isn't the Korean UA pretty phenomenal?

It's possible that the Turtle Ship is intended to balance that out - it's not strictly worse than a Caravel, but most Caravels are for exploration and it doesn't do that, which seriously restricts your exploration beyond your own region... which seems both interestingly idiosyncratic and like the kind of drawback that would help balance out an otherwise overpowered UA.

Korea's stuff just begs you to sit there and develop a small, specialist-oriented empire; it should be fantastic at that.

 

[Louis XXIV]

it does, but it's only -25%. One siege promotion later, and that's taken care of.

What's the turtle combat strength?

 

[MadDjinn]

What's the turtle combat strength?

the CS of the turtle ship is 30, but the ranged attack is only 12. No siege allowed for naval ships though.

 

[Louis XXIV]

True, that's not worth it.

 

[Txurce]

Isn't the Korean UA pretty phenomenal?

It's possible that the Turtle Ship is intended to balance that out - it's not strictly worse than a Caravel, but most Caravels are for exploration and it doesn't do that, which seriously restricts your exploration beyond your own region... which seems both interestingly idiosyncratic and like the kind of drawback that would help balance out an otherwise overpowered UA.

Korea's stuff just begs you to sit there and develop a small, specialist-oriented empire; it should be fantastic at that.

Agreed, top to bottom. The Hwacha will always have a penalty against cities compared to a similarly promoted trebuchet, but is probably more effective overall.

 

[leeuw01]

Why not make the turtel ship upgradable to an ironclad? There pretty much the same.