Two Big Exploits to ban in future games

[cracker]

Since the next GOTM will be released by this time next week, I feel it is important to get a couple of exploits declared in the rules pages before things proceed.

Both of these exploits can technically be hidden by smart play and both exploits have an overpowering effect on the final score in a game.

The first major exploit is the "Soylent Green" or "Worker Dogpile" exploit that has been discussed in the GOTM8 spolier thread which lets you add 1000's of extra workers as specialists in one of your cities.

The second major exploit is posted in separate thread and lets you double count your shields as wealth and production in every turn:

Gold Miner's Exploit

AT least if these exploits are accurately declared on the GOTM rules page, then every player will have access to their use in future games even if the use is technically forbidden but undetectible.

 

[God]

@cracker: Maybe if you hadn't given the link some people won't have noticed the exploit. j/k.

Anyway I can't see gold as ever being a huge problem. Who puts their cities on wealth. I only do it at the end of the game.

 

[Hobbes]

Two issues that need to be addressed, and unless they are, GOTM will become a test of who has the most time to utilize these strategies in milking their score. If your taking a poll, include my vote for "yes", to ban these "bugs" from GOTM. If they are not, people who would not normally use them will feel inclined to do so, in order to stay competitive (myself included ).

In a related matter, these "bugs" should also be banned from the tournament.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Yes, I vote ban. I would even suggest that GOTM only be played to 1750AD to make the GOTM more a test of skill than endurance.

CB

 

[Creepster]

I also would vote to ban the two, but the banning needs to be spelled out. I also think we need to hear from Matrix on this. He is running the GOTM and as of yet I have not heard anything from him.

 

[Matrix]

Hey, I'm not reading the forum every two hour.

Could you summarize the first bug you mention? I don't wanna search through the whole spoiler thread...

 

[Bamspeedy]

Could you summarize the first bug you mention? I don't wanna search through the whole spoiler thread...

Basically, there is no limit on city size. Just build a hospital (in your capital for example), then dump your extra workers all into your capital. You only lose one citizen per turn to starvation. Then every city that has a specialist you have it build a worker. This worker goes to the capital. The city that built the worker now has more food to produce yet another worker. So you are continually making more specialists. you can have a population higher than normally could be possible on a map.

In my current HoF game I have over 9,000 citizens in my capital and only lose 1/turn to starvation. i can continually add 150-200 per turn to this city. Every specialist is worth 1 point * difficulty level, so since I am playing Regent, my capital is worth 27,000+ pts.

 

[Matrix]

Ugh, that Gold Minder's exploit is ugly as hell and will be utterly disallowed.
:die:

 

[JFL_Dragon]

Cracker

The workpile bug would show up in a integrity test. If you request say 1850 year and compare with the 2050 year ? The increase in the pop score through piling would be way out of normal parameters


Cheers

JFL_Dragon

 

[Bamspeedy]

Not everyone would have extra saves around. Some players after they finish their game, they delete all the saves except the 10 A.D. and the last save, as to free up space on their computer. Some people after they know for sure, that Matrix has received their saves, will delete these 2 saves also. You can't then just assume they are guilty, because they don't have the save(s) you want.

It depends how much of an extreme they take this too, when you look at the final score. The histograph screen breaks the score down and shows the average # of happy/content/specialists. If their average is alot higher than their final population, something is wrong.

Edit: Also, if we watched the replay, we would be wondering why the heck they destroyed a city with only a few turns remaining.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy


Edit: Also, if we watched the replay, we would be wondering why the heck they destroyed a city with only a few turns remaining.

Bamspeedy,

Why destroy the city just add enough workers so that they all stave to make a proper looking city at 2050AD?

For example, city has a size 20 at 1750AD add 200 workers. Don't add any more workers and in the year 2050AD the city is size 20 and no need to destroy a city.

Even if you don't dogpile for points, the routine can allow you to quickly fill all your cities to their theoretical limit. Who is to say what is too many points for a map and who did and who did not use a slimy tactic?

CB

 

[Creepster]

That is why we need to spell out the ban clearly. I was not aware of just what could be done with this exploit until this month, but I do like to put all of my workers into cities the next to last turn. I usually scatter them around though, so I can get an extra point or two. (It really does not affect the score much this late in the game)

Would this be disallowed as well? Or what if I want to use the Palace junp routing and I use the workers to build up a city further from my capital to make it attractive for the jump? Is that allowed or disallowed?

 

[Bamspeedy]

Even if you don't dogpile for points, the routine can allow you to quickly fill all your cities to their theoretical limit. Who is to say what is too many points for a map and who did and who did not use a slimy tactic?

I don't consider using workers to get say, a city from size 6 to size 25 is unethical at all, provided the city has enough food for the 25. I'm sure that has been done by lots of people when they have all their terrain improved and they have a bunch of workers left over. I'm sure that has gone on for a long time. If they use this tactic, it would be impossible to judge based on the score whether or not they used it.

What I was saying is, if you look at their 2049 A.D. save and it shows in thier score that they had an average of say 1200 citizens, but if you add up all their cities' pop and it only amounts to 900-1000, something is seriously wrong.

 

[Beam]

These exploits are ugly!

 

[Gregski]

I discovered another expoit that should not be allowed. Select any city you built and rename it to Moscow. If the game complains that it already exists, you know the Russians are in the game. Similar process to find out about the presence of all other civs at 4000BC. This may not be the most crucial information, but is somewhat useful.

 

[Bamspeedy]

You could also use the top cities screen to find out some of your opponents.

 

[JFL_Dragon]

Lack of space on Hard Drive

Arent the file like 200KB with 1.21f ?

 

[Lawrence]

Some players, like me, didn't save the game at all.

I always load the latest autosave when I came back to play. The only save I have is the submitting save at the end of the game and a few earlier autosaves.

 

[Creepster]

Lack of space on Hard Drive

I always clean up my game files. I can't stand having that many to look at. It also gets confusing between GOTM files, Tournament files, personal games, and mayby a HOF game that you are trying to do. By cleaning up the save files it is easier to manage and less scrolling to do. So it is not always a matter of Hard drive space but number of files. The civ names overlap sometimes too.

 

[Matrix]

I'd say the worker dogpile is disallowed as well.