Ucel1 - Noble Atheist

[Panth]

Well, if we're going anti-religion you'll need to avoid Myticism, meditation, Polytheism, and Monotheism early on until somebody else discovers those 1st 3 religions [Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism]. Go with some of the worker techs or military techs that I usually ignore until later Husbandry, sailing, the metalworkings, etc. With all that money coming in it may actually be hard to avoid the religions without consciously paying attention Pottery wouldn't be bad either. If we can get cottages going on those floodplains, the cash will be heavy. Husbandry, farming, and whichever allows camps (I forget) should be key though because we have a LOT of unhealthy points that will need to be balanced out by the plant/animal resources.

 

[ucel]

I think the right question is: what we need? We can leave the chopping for later and now concentrate on pottery, so we could build cottages. My proposition is:
Agr -> Whe -> Pot

 

[Panth]

Chopping bad. The trees give a +1 helath, floodplains a -1. Balance in all things.

Ag, wheel, pottery sounds good.

 

[ucel]

1) 4000 BC - Moscow has been founded. We got 46 gold from the village. I moved the production from the flood plains to plains NE. We get Ag and Warrior in 8 turns. Scout revealed that we are near to the east coast of our continent (one from three preset). And look: our location is not so poor: we have horses and deer in the range!

 

[Panth]

Horse, deer, and fish are great. We'll need the health. Hut to the NW too
I like that spot 1S from the scout for city #2 already.

I alos like that Civ IV shows which tiles are being worked on the map.

 

[ucel]

2) 3960 BC - I'll leave the hut for the warrior and make some exploration with the scout to the south. Wow! Second hut (W W)!
3) 3920 BC - Next 59 gold from the hut
4) 3880 BC - Moscow has expanded, so I moved the working field from plains to deer. Warrior still due to 5, but size 2 due to 10. Scout moved W, SW. No, hut again!

I marked the place where th second hut was.

 

[yoshi74]

Chopping bad. The trees give a +1 helath, floodplains a -1. Balance in all things.

lurker's comment: forest adds +0,5, floodplains -0,4

 

[ucel]

5) 3840 BC - Map this time. Showed the next hut .
6) 3800 BC - Going to pop the next hut
7) 3760 BC - Still going
8) 3720 BC - Still going, found next one on the way
9) 3680 BC - Congratulations! We have trained the first military unit! So let's start the second one! Wheel due to 7. Warrior due to 7. We got 55 from the hut. I move warrior towards the Moscow hut.
10) 3640 BC - Move scout toward previously seen hut.

This is our map after 10 turns. We must secure the stone!

 

[ucel]

11) 3600 BC Scout took next 24 gold, Warrior experience. We are rich!!!
12) 3560 BC Strange news came to our tribe. Someone has founded "hinduism" whatever that means... And our warrior is now Woodsman II. I renamed him to "Lucky Guy" . I conduct the exploration with the scout towards SW and warrior towards NW.
13) 3520 BC While exploring Lucky Guy found the next hut and some lions. I fortify and wait what they do.
14) 3480 BC Of course they attacked. Woodsman II in the forest . Lucky guy took next 41 gold from the hut and I moved him back to the forest. He'll have to heal there. Scout didn't find anything interesting.
15) 3440 BC Nothing
16) 3400 BC We know the wheel. So now it's time to learn how to build these bloody cottages. Pottery due to 7. I switched the production to Barracks. We have to change it to Worker when city becomes 3.
17) 3360 BC What is this bloody Buddhism?
18) 3320 BC Our scout found some sugar and some lions to the south...
19) 3280 BC Lucky Guy can move again! And he found some furs. It seems we are in the north path of the map. But I still haven't found anybody...
20) 3240 BC Some lions near Lucky Guy. Since he already 5XP I didn't attract them (you cannot gain more than 5 XP from animals). Scout is exploring south.

Our situation: Could it be we are alone on the continent?
Next turn Moscow will be 3. We have to change barracks to worker there. We have to learn Ani soon - Moscow is now 6 : 5 in health (-3 from flood plains).
I propose: Worker->Warrior->Settler->Wonder in Moscow. The best would be Stonehenge or Pyramids.

Thrar - it's your turn!

 

[Panth]

lurker's comment: forest adds +0,5, floodplains -0,4

You are correct, Yoshi. I was just reading through the manual and noticed that. I didn't realize they were fractional effects before.

 

[Thrar]

got it, will play in a couple of hours

 

[Thrar]

one thing i'd like to discuss: why build (many) cottages at this point? Imo, we already get lots of cash thanks to the rivers, and what we need is health to grow.
My suggestion would be to research hunting next to hook up the deer, then fishing and place our second city on the coast. There are even floodplains near the coast, so both of those cities could get huge food incomes with farms, and give us great settler and worker production. Of course, afterwards we should get some production cities going.
I don't have much time at the moment, so I'll have a detailed look later. What's your opinion?

 

[ucel]

I think we are alone on the continent. That means mu must rush astronomy to make contact with another civs and trade some techs. And that means we need every single piece of golde for the research . Luckily we can last longer on the deficit because of rich goody huts. We can need some more gold, so I propose to pop the huts only with scout. And I'm agree that Hun->Ani should be our next techs.

 

[regoarrarr]

One reason to build cottages is that every cottage on the river gives us 3 gold (an extra gold due to our financial trait)

 

[ucel]

My fault, I haven't read Thrar's post carefully . Really there is no point to spam cottages now. Let's build one and then camp on the deer. Don't forgot the road . The settler will be built soon, so we cannot use more than one cottage to this time.

===================================

I'm out till Sunday evening (CET). But don't afraid to play without me .

 

[Thrar]

first, I had a look at our position:
2 warriors (1 with woodsman II, one on garrison), 1 scout
4 forests around Moscow -> chop at most one to keep health!
Lots of floodplains. We have a huge potential for growth and settler/worker production. Why did we start on the barracks? Since we're alone on the island, it is of no use for us in the near future, I would have preferred another warrior. Doesn't make a huge difference though, I think.

So, here are my turns:

(1) lucky guy going westwards, leaving those lions alone (5xp already, like you said)
after deciding not to take advantage of the double movement, i move the scout in the jungle. Looks like there's some kind of southern peninsula.

IBT - forest grows near Moscow. Since we have five times 0.4 now, that means an extra health!

(2) Moscow grows to 3. Some more moving around, and made a decision: Moscow will grow one more to 4, then produce worker, grow again to 5 (!) since the worker can hook up the deer in time, then build settler. In between we build the warrior that will later escort the settler.
For now, I switch from barracks to warrior, who later will escort the settler.

calculations for that:
Worker -> Settler now takes us 10 turns for the worker, then another 14 (roughly, I didn't exactly calculate the outcome of terrain improvements) for the settler, ends in 25 turns. Another 4 turns later we could have a warrior to excort it, so the settler leaves in 28, with Moscow at size 3 1/2.
size 4 -> Worker -> size 5 -> Settler takes 5 turns for each growth, 9 for the worker, 10 for the settler. Means 29 turns. While growing, we can build a warrior, so we will move to our next settlement in 29 turns.
If I did that correctly, we trade 1 or 2 turns on our second settlement for 2 pop points on our first one, including all the commerce that comes from it.
Considering the situation we are in, and the fact that we'll produce mostly settlers for a while (and growing later would slow down every subsequent settler), I go with the first option.

(3) Pottery finished. I wonder what to research next, we'll need both fishing and sailing (lighthouses) for the coastal second town, but there would be time to squeeze in another tech before (now: fishing in 4, sailing another 10). I think there's nothing we need now, so I go for fishing.

(4) Lucky Guy got attacked by wolves (down to 1.8), and sees another hut.

(5) Lucky Guy pops another 46 gold. We're damn rich!

(6) Moscow expands its borders. Several lions around in the south. Gives some view of the north, looks quite barren though.

(7) Moscow grows to size 5. Switch build to worker (9 turns, working only floodplains). 10 hammers left on warrior. The worker should produce an overflow of 3, and we need 5 more turns to grow when it finishes. Leaves us with 13 when the second growth is done. Also researched fishing, sailing in 8 now (thanks to the extra gold from growth).

(8) nothing happened.

(9) see above.

(10) guess what? Yes, nothing. Oh wait, lucky guy found the west coast I think.

 

[Thrar]

IBT - Scout on a hill kills a lion, but barely (0.2). I decide not to rest, it would take 9 turns to full health, and we can retreat if we meet something on the first movement point.

(11) nothing. Scout goes down southern peninsula, Lucky Guy along the coast.

(12) Scout popped archery from a hut in the south.

(13) Lions next to Lucky Guy. Since I'm not at full health, I stay in the forest and rest.

IBT - lion attacks, Lucky Guy down to 1.7. I'll rest for one turn.

(14) Sailing finished. I go for Bronze Working, mostly because I have no better idea, and it's on the path that eventually leads to optics. DO NOT use this to chop the forests near Moscow, we need EVERY SINGLE ONE of them for health!
Scout reaches what seems to be the tip of the southern peninsula.

(15) Worker finished, will improve the deer (for health and +2 food). Lucky guy up at 1.9, back on the road.

(16) Worker starts camp (4 turns), will be finished just when Moscow grows. No need for road, is connected by the river. Lucky guy pops another hut, gets experience.

(17) Combat I for Lucky Guy. Wolves appear near Moscow, I move the warrior to protect the worker on the deer, if necessary.

(18) Lucky Guy and the scout kind of meet. Not in person, but their explored lands. There are some open ends, particularly in the west and south, but this seems pretty much what we have to live with. And yes, we seem to be alone.

(19) Lucky Guy heading back west, to explore the open end. Scout will go south. Pasture can already be worked - that's one turn earlier than I expected. As mentioned, the river connects it automatically to Moscow. Some city micro makes Moscow grow next turn, while providing enough shields to finish the warrior, and even giving two in excess that can be used on the settler (in queue).

(20) Worker moves back to the floodplains. Note that I didn't bother with building a road now, the river is all we need. We can build a farm every 4 turns (don't bother with roads!), which should speed up our settler by another one or two turns.
Since we have two warriors near Moscow now, I send one of them to the northern tundra. Remember to get him back in time for the settler!


Moscow city:

Our neighborhood:

Some more thoughts on further strategy:
I recommend farming 4 floodplains now, then mine one of the hills. Since we have the chance, we should try not to use any tile that does not give at least 4 food/hammers and 1 gold. Considering that we have such a huge continent to fill, imo cottages are of no use for us at the moment (or any time soon). Once we get enough cities, think about it, but I think we got a great settler factory here, which we should use! Also note that we can't grow any more without extra health (the fish from the second city should allow that, then grow to 6), my suggestion would be: build settlers/workers, and get those warriors from other cities.
Imo: Moscow should build settlers til the end of the world. The next city on the coast should still have lots of food (see below), also nice commerce on the water, and production similar to Moscow. The third city should focus on military protection, so our settlers from Moscow and City II don't have to go without escorts. After that I think we have lots of more options.

Here are some options for the second city:

Only these 3 positions can reach the fish, so I didn't consider any others.
The upper one gets two flood plains, and is built on a plains/hill, which means one extra production in the city square.
The middle one doesn't get that extra hammer, but can later use the mined hill which evens that out. It trades a plains square for one more coast tile.
The lower one is built directly on one of the floodplains, which wastes that growth potential. In addition, it has lots of water around, and one more desert. The weakest imo.
My choice would clearly be the first, upper one, for good growth and one free shield right from the day we found it.

The only road we should build is the route from Moscow to City II, so it would be good to have the worker in that area when the farm-building is done. I really wouldn't bother with roads now, the more farms we get built, the faster we get to our settler(s)!

 

[Panth]

My vote personally, is for the middle of those 3 as I noted before. Long term, the upper choice isn't going to provide much production, where the middle one will give two hills to mine. Middle also gives a higly defensible position because we can fortify troops on that hill forcing any potential attacker to either attack hill-fortified troops or across a river to take it. Less importantly probably, middle postition has zero overlap with moscow.

Edit: good turns by the way. Excellent exploration and I agree fully with your management decisions.

 

[PeeDub]

lurker's comment: FWIW, none of them overlap with Moscow.

 

[Thrar]

Some more on the second city (considering only the upper two placements):

upper one:
starts with 2/2/x (I'm not sure about how much gold, but should be equal)
land in range:
3 grassland
5 plains (2 w/ forest)
2 desert
2 floodplain
1 grassland hill
7 water.

lower one:
starts with 2/1/x.
land in range:
3 grassland
3 plains (1 w/ forest)
2 desert
2 floodplain
1 grassland hill
1 plains hill
8 water

difference:
upper: 1 plains, 1 plains w/ forest, 1 more hammer in city tile.
lower: 1 plains hill, 1 water, 2 workable tiles more w/o river.

Imo, that 1 more hammer in the city tile is the most important thing for my decision to put the city on the hill. This benefits from the very first turn, and later we lose 1 production (comparing mined hill with workshop plains) on a different tile, which is equalized by this one.
That's why I don't see where we lose production in the long run, and thus don't think there's a reason for the lower one.
Further, we simply have one more tile which can potentially give production on the upper placement, while the lower gets water instead. Another minor point is the forest in the upper solution (again production from the get-go, not requiring improvements), and the two more river tiles.

Actually, neither of the two positions is very strong on production, both are good on food and gold (thanks to the floodplains and water). Since we're apparently alone I feel quite confident in not building a strong military early, it shouldn't be a problem delaying the founding of a production city to the third or fourth.